Yes, that's called a "troll". or perhaps "spam"; however, given the
strong language ("terrorist kayak instructors"???), I'd tend to
categorize it as the former. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the
discussion and the person isn't interested in discourse on the merits
of the device. You see this kind of kook all over Usenet and they're
best ignored. There's nothing you can do to stop them from posting to
an unmoderated group, so just get over it and go on.

Jones... who really *wants* to drown children because he has
pedophobia!

On 2 Sep 2006 16:22:37 -0700, in rec.boats.paddle "safer21"
wrote:

This is to warn parents of the CRIMINAL Rescue Safety Scandal of the
North American Canoe and Kayak Industry. The industry's definitions of
the words "rescue" and "safety" are misleading and deliberately
endangering to life. Canoes and kayaks are AS DANGEROUS AS POSSIBLE,
FOR GOOD REASON: TO MAKE MONEY FOR SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.

Instructors cannot match the rescue safety capabilities of 10 year old
girls having NO instruction or experience. This is against the larger
interests of society, to say nothing of the agonized deaths of the
victims, and the needless grieving of their families. It is a horrible
and obvious crime!!!!!

Do you find this hard to believe? It is a nasty fact that some people
will bully and exploit vulnerable persons, for money or simply the
power and control over others. A US Department Of Homeland Security
orange alert warns that FRAUD ARTISTS, SADISTIC MURDERERS AND
TERRORISTS are well documented criminal groups in the kayak instructor
community.

Safe, reliable SPONSONS offer PROTECTION to your children from
sadistic, murderous, terrorist kayak instructors even at RED ALERT
level!!!!!

http://www.sponsonguy.com/

!Jones wrote:
Yes, that's called a "troll". or perhaps "spam"; however, given the
strong language ("terrorist kayak instructors"???), I'd tend to
categorize it as the former. [...]

If you do a search back on google you can see the posting history of
this guy and it isn't pretty. Usually he posted the same sort of sqawk
over and over like some sort of automatic robot. He destroys the
legitimacy of his own argument by being overly windy and overly
dramatic and failing to disclose his own vested financial interest in
the matter.

On 3 Sep 2006 12:20:14 -0700, in rec.boats.paddle
wrote:

If you do a search back on google you can see the posting history of
this guy and it isn't pretty. Usually he posted the same sort of sqawk
over and over like some sort of automatic robot. He destroys the
legitimacy of his own argument by being overly windy and overly
dramatic and failing to disclose his own vested financial interest in
the matter.

Trolling a newsgroup is a little like pulling a cat's tail... you soon
learn that all you need to do is to *hold* the cat's tail and let the
cat do the rest of the work.

I haven't had time to troll in a while (and really don't now);
however, when I do, I'm looking for a group wherein there exists an
attitude of elitism... I just glance through the current postings for
that. Then I post some dumb question (bait) and count the replies it
draws paying particular attention to the more self-righteous, derisive
answers I get. If I see a few, I'd subsequently look for a nice "hot
button" topic as a stick to drag along the picket fence. The worst
possible thing you can do is to snarl and froth at me because there
are entire newsgroups dedicated ad hoc to trolling other groups...
you'd quickly have five or ten trolls if anyone wanted to join the
fun.

Bottom line... don't be too quick to jump all over the newbies! It
might be reconnaissance!

Methinks that the "sponson" (or what the **** ever they are) isn't a
bad idea in concept... for *some* people, mind you. My wife is
handicapped, so, if we roll, then she probably won't be able to
remount the boat; the ama might help therein (we have a SOT tandem).
Moreover, I do photography and, while my gear will resist some water,
if we go completely over, then we have a serious issue. We're not of
the white water crowd whose idea of a good time is rolling sideways
down the rapids (however, we have neither objection nor advice if it's
yours).

I think I'd opt for one of the solid foam devices on adjustable arms
such that may be raised & lowered as well as moved in and out. Maybe
something like these: http://www.castlecraft.com/stabilizers.htm That
same device is marketed under various names; I'm certain that there's
a single manufacturer.

Yeah, they're obviously not for everyone. WW crowd might sooner eat a
bug as even consider such an abomination... but for flat-water
paddlers... well, what are my trade-offs? I tend to think of safety
in terms of *gear*... I mean, left to my own tendencies. I know that
the ocean is bigger than anything I can go out and buy... didn't the
Titanic prove that? Given the type of use I describe, do you think
they'd be worth the investment?

Jones

!Jones wrote:
[...]
I think I'd opt for one of the solid foam devices on adjustable arms
such that may be raised & lowered as well as moved in and out. Maybe
something like these: http://www.castlecraft.com/stabilizers.htm That
same device is marketed under various names; I'm certain that there's
a single manufacturer.

Yeah, they're obviously not for everyone. WW crowd might sooner eat a
bug as even consider such an abomination... but for flat-water
paddlers... well, what are my trade-offs? I tend to think of safety
in terms of *gear*... I mean, left to my own tendencies. I know that
the ocean is bigger than anything I can go out and buy... didn't the
Titanic prove that? Given the type of use I describe, do you think
they'd be worth the investment?

Jones

Devices like that are sold but I think you could just as well make your
own. I don't mind the idea of outriggers and think they could make
sense for some people and weigh very little -- and never touch the
water until needed. The Ingham sponsons on the other hand are attached
with a strap under the boat, so you would not want to leave them in
place due to drag. They are a rescue device. What advantage they have
over a paddle float is questionable.

On 3 Sep 2006 14:24:04 -0700, in rec.boats.paddle
wrote:

Devices like that are sold but I think you could just as well make your
own.

I'm not sure that I could build a similar device for under $300 ...
certainly not if I considered my labor.

The Ingham sponsons on the other hand are attached
with a strap under the boat, so you would not want to leave them in
place due to drag. They are a rescue device. What advantage they have
over a paddle float is questionable.

I have tried rolling the sleeping pads and lashing them thus. I
didn't notice any huge stability gain; however, I did notice the drag!

Jones

!Jones wrote:
wrote:

Devices like that are sold but I think you could just as well make your
own.

I'm not sure that I could build a similar device for under $300 ...
certainly not if I considered my labor.

Well, I don't know what your labor rate is. Two large blocks of
styrofoam. A few lengths of aluminum channel. Some aluminum plate to
glue to the styrofoam. Fasteners. Maybe an epoxy sealant to coat the
styrofoam with. A little more aluminum and some closed cell foam to
fashion an attachment scheme.

On 3 Sep 2006 18:17:57 -0700, in rec.boats.paddle
wrote:

!Jones wrote:
wrote:

Devices like that are sold but I think you could just as well make your
own.

I'm not sure that I could build a similar device for under $300 ...
certainly not if I considered my labor.

Well, I don't know what your labor rate is. Two large blocks of
styrofoam. A few lengths of aluminum channel. Some aluminum plate to
glue to the styrofoam. Fasteners. Maybe an epoxy sealant to coat the
styrofoam with. A little more aluminum and some closed cell foam to
fashion an attachment scheme.

I'd guess that's about $150. Have you priced machine stock lately?
Then you have to have all of the parts anodized and that's about $10
per part with a $50 set-up. If I do it, then I'd cough up the $300, I
think.

We've just gotten our boat and the wife has her hand in a cast for the
next three weeks... arthritis surgery. Anyway, I want to spand a
little more time on the water before I buy any accessories. I'm
guessing that I'll order a set in the next few months... I'll let you
know what I think.

Jones

!Jones wrote:
On 3 Sep 2006 18:17:57 -0700, in rec.boats.paddle
wrote:

!Jones wrote:
wrote:

Devices like that are sold but I think you could just as well make your
own.
I'm not sure that I could build a similar device for under $300 ...
certainly not if I considered my labor.
Well, I don't know what your labor rate is. Two large blocks of
styrofoam. A few lengths of aluminum channel. Some aluminum plate to
glue to the styrofoam. Fasteners. Maybe an epoxy sealant to coat the
styrofoam with. A little more aluminum and some closed cell foam to
fashion an attachment scheme.

I'd guess that's about $150. Have you priced machine stock lately?
Then you have to have all of the parts anodized and that's about $10
per part with a $50 set-up. If I do it, then I'd cough up the $300, I
think.

We've just gotten our boat and the wife has her hand in a cast for the
next three weeks... arthritis surgery. Anyway, I want to spand a
little more time on the water before I buy any accessories. I'm
guessing that I'll order a set in the next few months... I'll let you
know what I think.

Jones
If you've just gotta go there, go he
http://www.canoegear.com/catalog/home.php

They make pretty good stuff, and at least you'll be buying from someone
fairly reputable.

MJ

!Jones wrote:

We've just gotten our boat and the wife has her hand in a cast for the
next three weeks... arthritis surgery. Anyway, I want to spand a
little more time on the water before I buy any accessories. I'm
guessing that I'll order a set in the next few months... I'll let you
know what I think.

Jones

Well, if it's for your injured wife it would be far better to spend the
money than risk the aftermath of "your contraption" failing her.

On 4 Sep 2006 06:17:35 -0700, in rec.boats.paddle
wrote:

!Jones wrote:

We've just gotten our boat and the wife has her hand in a cast for the
next three weeks... arthritis surgery. Anyway, I want to spand a
little more time on the water before I buy any accessories. I'm
guessing that I'll order a set in the next few months... I'll let you
know what I think.

Jones

Well, if it's for your injured wife it would be far better to spend the
money than risk the aftermath of "your contraption" failing her.

Heh! Actually, I have about half a dozen projects on the fire.

Jones