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Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message ... So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Did the investment company run you off because of customer complaints, or did you leave voluntarily? I banged the manager's wife while his 17 year old daughter videotaped the whole thing. And made the manager watch, too, right??!! |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
"basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message ... So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Did the investment company run you off because of customer complaints, or did you leave voluntarily? I banged the manager's wife while his 17 year old daughter videotaped the whole thing. And made the manager watch, too, right??!! Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
"JohnH" wrote in message
... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:58:07 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:53:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: The oil companies, knowing this, do whatever they want with the price. That's a crime, and should be dealt with. I asked the questions I did because of the statement you made, above. You state the oil companies are committing a crime and make the solution to high prices sound very simple. I don't think it is. John Although Supreme Court justices use hypothetical questions as a tool ***ALL THE TIME*** in their sessions with attorneys, I'm aware of the fact that here in this NG, lesser minds like to apply the term "straw man" (an inaccurate term), because they need to belittle a process they cannot fathom. (Dave Hall was the queen of that group). Let's try a hypothetical question anyway, though, and hope no mental midgets show up and clutter things. (You've just been flattered. You're welcome.) Let's say I had more money than Bill Gates. I see in the newspaper that the entire crew of a Norwegian ***OIL TANKER*** was found to have Legionnaire's disease. Not only that, but the ship's owner makes a habit of moving a portion of each crew from one ship to another whenever possible, so that they're exposed to any operational differences between the ships. They own 10 ships. Not knowing (or caring) whether Legionnaire's disease is contagious, I decide that ALL the company's ships are at risk, which may have an enormous impact on the availability of oil. I place a huge futures trade, of a size that rivals those of institutional traders, and of course, it's noticed, as such trades always are. Sometimes, lots of sheep mimic such trades, because without checking the source, they think there must be SOMETHING going on. Is it just some yahoo playing with extra money, or were Saudi oil fields attacked within the last few hours? Who cares? More people jump in. Although large institutional traders are sometimes asked why things go a certain way, nobody interviews me because I'm just some yahoo with a bunch of money, and I don't have to reveal my identity to anyone but my broker, or whatever web site I trade through. Later that day, you hear on the news "Oil jumped $2.15 a barrel today". Absolutely nothing else in the world happened which would cause this. Even the "professionals" are clueless, and can't pin it on news events of any sort. This is not as hypothetical as you will probably want to say it is. What do you think about this scenario? Knowing almost nothing of futures trading, because I don't do it, I would say it sounds plausible. But, why should the oil companies be accused of criminal activity if this occurs? John Because as I mentioned much earlier in this thread, much of the trading occurs because of emotional reactions to events, many of which have absolutely ZERO material effect on oil production or shipment. Vapor, in other words. But, it ceases to be vapor when oil companies have to buy into a market that's inflated because of idiots, and then adjust their prices according to vapor. (I'm being charitable here and portraying them as victims in this mess. Not totally true, but...whatever). There are plenty of businesses which are enormously successful, even though they have to deal with unknown price swings for their raw materials and have no commodity market in which they can hedge their bets. They find ways to smooth the bumps in other ways, perhaps through their own form of dollar cost averaging. This is exactly what MY business is about. More directly than any other product, petroleum is vital to the economy of this country. The way pricing is determined now, it may as well be run by OTB. |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
I was thinking on that same line. I've heard various conspiricy
theorists alway say that gold is a great "hedge against inflation" huh? Lets face it, it's only worth what you can get out of it. I've seen gold trade a year ago for $256.00 per troy ounce, then it shoots up to $358. per ounce, and people think their gold is worth a lot but they don't sell it. 25 yrs ago I saw the stuff break $800.00 per ounce, then crash down to $335. (+/-) almost over night. So I've always thought that it was a volitile market. Especially seeing our economy isn't set on a gold standard and hasn't been for many, many years. A friend of mine told me once when I was skeptical about investing in some no-load mutual funds. he said. "Listen Tim, if you think that if the economy is going to tank and you'll lose money, remember. If the economy tanks. Nobody has any money anyhow." JoeSpareBedroom wrote: I think the idea's weird, but that's based on MY picture of "when all hell breaks loose". Who will decide what gold is worth? A lot of survivalists would correctly say that food, ammo, serious boots & clothing and gasoline are gonna look real good compared to a bunch of gold coins that are stuck in a bank vault that you can't access. "Tim" wrote in message ups.com... This had been pretty good, when you get down to a real discussion. I've always wondered about gold. buying gold. a reletive of min has some gold. actually over the years of collecting, he's got a pretty good stash, like maybe a 10 troy pounds. He has stated that gold is a great investment, and I've kind of been reserved about it. because he says when all else fails you always have gold. OK, my arguement is that if all else fails (economy?) then gold will fail too. After all, you can't eat it. I mean, if you're starving, then what is worth more to you? 5 chickens? or an ounce of gold? Doug, you got any thoughts on buying and selling gold? THANKS! Tim JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:40:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message . .. Bzzzt. I asked first, and you haven't answered. Explain how the US price is "out of hand". The price elsewhere is completely irrelevant. That's your answer to the Europe issue. As far as the price here, 25% to 35% of it consists of trading excess, like tech stocks before the bottom fell out. For stocks, it doesn't matter, because nobody is required to own them. For oil, the design of our country (which only gets worse) mandates its use. The oil companies, knowing this, do whatever they want with the price. That's a crime, and should be dealt with. What would you do, Doug? John Limit futures trading to companies which have a material interest in the commodity being traded, in this case, oil. Eliminate speculators, who, by definition, are in no way involved with the production of petroleum products. This latter group is simply playing games. Stopping this would not totally eliminate the fluff in the price, but it would go far in that direction. Are the oil companies the only futures traders, 'doing whatever they want with the price' which, as you stated, is a crime? John, I stated above that there were two general categories of traders, so the obvious answer to your question is NO. There are companies with a material interest in production costs, like Exxon, etc. Then, there are pure speculators. You and I can trade contracts, but more often, it's institutional traders who are managing (?) other peoples' money (mutual funds, retirement money, etc). Would you make that a law for all futures trading? Just oil, and perhaps natural gas. These are two products we cannot stop using for various reasons. We don't hear much outrage about wild price swings for other products which are subject to gambling, like cocoa, sugar, pork bellies, etc., so why bother with them? Would the SEC then have to check whether all futures traders had a 'material interest' in the commodity. How would you define 'material interest'? The SEC is fully capable of determining who is trading ANYTHING on the various exchanges. As far as "material interest", that was also explained earlier. Why are you asking again? |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
Depends on what you or your friend mean by "tanks". In the typical scenario,
you buy more of that mutual fund, assuming the concept behind the fund still makes sense to you. "Tim" wrote in message oups.com... I was thinking on that same line. I've heard various conspiricy theorists alway say that gold is a great "hedge against inflation" huh? Lets face it, it's only worth what you can get out of it. I've seen gold trade a year ago for $256.00 per troy ounce, then it shoots up to $358. per ounce, and people think their gold is worth a lot but they don't sell it. 25 yrs ago I saw the stuff break $800.00 per ounce, then crash down to $335. (+/-) almost over night. So I've always thought that it was a volitile market. Especially seeing our economy isn't set on a gold standard and hasn't been for many, many years. A friend of mine told me once when I was skeptical about investing in some no-load mutual funds. he said. "Listen Tim, if you think that if the economy is going to tank and you'll lose money, remember. If the economy tanks. Nobody has any money anyhow." JoeSpareBedroom wrote: I think the idea's weird, but that's based on MY picture of "when all hell breaks loose". Who will decide what gold is worth? A lot of survivalists would correctly say that food, ammo, serious boots & clothing and gasoline are gonna look real good compared to a bunch of gold coins that are stuck in a bank vault that you can't access. "Tim" wrote in message ups.com... This had been pretty good, when you get down to a real discussion. I've always wondered about gold. buying gold. a reletive of min has some gold. actually over the years of collecting, he's got a pretty good stash, like maybe a 10 troy pounds. He has stated that gold is a great investment, and I've kind of been reserved about it. because he says when all else fails you always have gold. OK, my arguement is that if all else fails (economy?) then gold will fail too. After all, you can't eat it. I mean, if you're starving, then what is worth more to you? 5 chickens? or an ounce of gold? Doug, you got any thoughts on buying and selling gold? THANKS! Tim JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:40:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message . .. Bzzzt. I asked first, and you haven't answered. Explain how the US price is "out of hand". The price elsewhere is completely irrelevant. That's your answer to the Europe issue. As far as the price here, 25% to 35% of it consists of trading excess, like tech stocks before the bottom fell out. For stocks, it doesn't matter, because nobody is required to own them. For oil, the design of our country (which only gets worse) mandates its use. The oil companies, knowing this, do whatever they want with the price. That's a crime, and should be dealt with. What would you do, Doug? John Limit futures trading to companies which have a material interest in the commodity being traded, in this case, oil. Eliminate speculators, who, by definition, are in no way involved with the production of petroleum products. This latter group is simply playing games. Stopping this would not totally eliminate the fluff in the price, but it would go far in that direction. Are the oil companies the only futures traders, 'doing whatever they want with the price' which, as you stated, is a crime? John, I stated above that there were two general categories of traders, so the obvious answer to your question is NO. There are companies with a material interest in production costs, like Exxon, etc. Then, there are pure speculators. You and I can trade contracts, but more often, it's institutional traders who are managing (?) other peoples' money (mutual funds, retirement money, etc). Would you make that a law for all futures trading? Just oil, and perhaps natural gas. These are two products we cannot stop using for various reasons. We don't hear much outrage about wild price swings for other products which are subject to gambling, like cocoa, sugar, pork bellies, etc., so why bother with them? Would the SEC then have to check whether all futures traders had a 'material interest' in the commodity. How would you define 'material interest'? The SEC is fully capable of determining who is trading ANYTHING on the various exchanges. As far as "material interest", that was also explained earlier. Why are you asking again? |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
Tim wrote:
I was thinking on that same line. I've heard various conspiricy theorists alway say that gold is a great "hedge against inflation" huh? Lets face it, it's only worth what you can get out of it. Exactly, but gold is for one thing a valuable commodity itself. For another, it's value tends to peak at times when other economic functions are very chaotic. ... I've seen gold trade a year ago for $256.00 per troy ounce, then it shoots up to $358. per ounce, and people think their gold is worth a lot but they don't sell it. Of course. Their behavior may be considered irrational if they forego a profit but OTOH they may be awaiting further chaos & even higher gold prices. Of course, as you and Doug (Joe) pointed out, at a certain level of chaos, gold becomes valueless. So you want to sell before then and gain some commodity(s) of greater practical everyday use. 25 yrs ago I saw the stuff break $800.00 per ounce, then crash down to $335. (+/-) almost over night. So I've always thought that it was a volitile market. Especially seeing our economy isn't set on a gold standard and hasn't been for many, many years. Yes, and very few are... but gold is still perceived by many as valuable... which of course, makes it so... A friend of mine told me once when I was skeptical about investing in some no-load mutual funds. he said. "Listen Tim, if you think that if the economy is going to tank and you'll lose money, remember. If the economy tanks. Nobody has any money anyhow." True enough... and you'll have a bigger piece of the nothing. For most people, no load mutual funds are a great way of protecting their investments from themselves. Very few investors beat the long-term average returns, which shows that you'd be better off with those than any other investment... *if* you want the money. Many people are actually gambling, not investing, ie doing it for entertainment value (or for prestige) rather than for value gained. In fact I would say 99.9% of individuals who indulge in commodities trading are exactly that. Oh well, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. DSK |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Depends on what you or your friend mean by "tanks". In general wheen we were talking about the economy "tanking" was in reference to a reply of the market crash of 1929. That kind of "tanking" |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
DSK wrote: True enough... and you'll have a bigger piece of the nothing. DSK LOL! exactly! hey guy's, this is great. THANKS! |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. Oh my! Jackoff will make sure those Palm Sisters take a beating tonight. |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:03:29 -0400, DSK wrote: Many people are actually gambling, not investing, All people investing in stock/bond/commodities are gambling. It's the nature of the process. I, on the other hand, never gamble on something I can't put my hands on. Gave that up right before 9/11. The only stocks I own are IBM (big dollars - bought really low) and a couple of oil companies. My new investment strategy is if I can't put my hands on it, I ain't investing in it. Real estate - in particular multi-family homes. Can't go wrong - everybody gotta live somewhere. :) Just playing a little devils advocate....but real estate has it's ups and downs also. As the current real estate "boom" begins to cool off, many people around the country are going to find themselves upside down with their mortgages. Real estate is not immune from price depreciation. This is something you or I have no control over anymore than we do with stocks/bonds/commodities except the latter are much more liquid, and for that matter can be more volatile. |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message ups.com... JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message ... So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Did the investment company run you off because of customer complaints, or did you leave voluntarily? I banged the manager's wife while his 17 year old daughter videotaped the whole thing. And made the manager watch, too, right??!! Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. Don't think that's good enough for him! |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
But that's ok because he's a good guy lunatic. :) Flattery will get you nowhere. But flattery and a good cup of coffee might... Im easy... DSK |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
ACP wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:03:29 -0400, DSK wrote: Many people are actually gambling, not investing, All people investing in stock/bond/commodities are gambling. It's the nature of the process. I, on the other hand, never gamble on something I can't put my hands on. Gave that up right before 9/11. The only stocks I own are IBM (big dollars - bought really low) and a couple of oil companies. My new investment strategy is if I can't put my hands on it, I ain't investing in it. Real estate - in particular multi-family homes. Can't go wrong - everybody gotta live somewhere. :) Just playing a little devils advocate....but real estate has it's ups and downs also. As the current real estate "boom" begins to cool off, many people around the country are going to find themselves upside down with their mortgages. Real estate is not immune from price depreciation. This is something you or I have no control over anymore than we do with stocks/bonds/commodities except the latter are much more liquid, and for that matter can be more volatile. In a lot of the real estate markets, the boom is already starting to cool, and in a lot of markets it's cooled quite a bit. |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"ACP" wrote in message ... "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:03:29 -0400, DSK wrote: Many people are actually gambling, not investing, All people investing in stock/bond/commodities are gambling. It's the nature of the process. I, on the other hand, never gamble on something I can't put my hands on. Gave that up right before 9/11. The only stocks I own are IBM (big dollars - bought really low) and a couple of oil companies. My new investment strategy is if I can't put my hands on it, I ain't investing in it. Real estate - in particular multi-family homes. Can't go wrong - everybody gotta live somewhere. :) Just playing a little devils advocate....but real estate has it's ups and downs also. As the current real estate "boom" begins to cool off, many people around the country are going to find themselves upside down with their mortgages. Real estate is not immune from price depreciation. This is something you or I have no control over anymore than we do with stocks/bonds/commodities except the latter are much more liquid, and for that matter can be more volatile. Real estate is also not liquid. You can step inside the house but try to convert it to cash when you need it.. Fearing that the market is due for a big adjustment I was able to recently withdraw a sizeable chunk from our non 401K retirement funds (through my broker and at his advice) and place them with a highly rated and respected fund company that gave me a 10% bonus for doing so. I must keep the money in the account for at least 5 years and I cannot withdraw more than 5% in any one year without a 15% penalty. The money will be invested as it normally was in domestic and international stocks and bonds and I will realize profits from those investments. I can never lose more than what I initially put into the fund though. As we do not need that money it was a win-win option for us. The remaining 35% of our account remains in the market and can be withdrawn at any time. It, however, is subject to drastic losses if the market turns south. If anyone is interested in this option send me an email and I will give you more specific information on the plan and the company. |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
All people investing in stock/bond/commodities are gambling. Not really. It's the nature of the process. Depends on how you define the terms, but if there is any better place to put money you don't want to spend right now than in well chosen stocks, 150 years of economic history has failed to uncover it. I, on the other hand, never gamble on something I can't put my hands on. I never gamble, period. Well, actually, I play nickel ante poker... but that is more like entertainment that actually pays me a very very small wage for my time. ... The only stocks I own are IBM (big dollars - bought really low) Like around $45/sh? Big Blue is looking OK right now, although I think their divesting of money-making divisions is making some people nervous. ... and a couple of oil companies. Hard to go wrong there. I expect them to start paying dividends in oil any day now. My new investment strategy is if I can't put my hands on it, I ain't investing in it. Can you put your hands on applied business technology? Can you put your hands on an energy distribution network? Ideas are the most valuable thing of all... well, make that ideas and hard work... but both are rather slippery to enter in a spreadsheet. Real estate - in particular multi-family homes. Can't go wrong - everybody gotta live somewhere. :) You heard it here first- real estate across the board is going to lag inflation for the next few years at least. If people are paying more for energy, they will of necessity have less to spend for rent & groceries. My capital (what of it is not in no-load index funds) gets invested in business sectors that show high growth in their lobbying expenditures. It's a cynical outlook, but so far has paid off... hey I'm in it for the money! Regards Doug King |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"DSK" wrote in message . .. Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: But that's ok because he's a good guy lunatic. :) Flattery will get you nowhere. But flattery and a good cup of coffee might... Im easy... DSK Slut. |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
Thanks Doug!
DSK wrote: Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: All people investing in stock/bond/commodities are gambling. Not really. It's the nature of the process. Depends on how you define the terms, but if there is any better place to put money you don't want to spend right now than in well chosen stocks, 150 years of economic history has failed to uncover it. I, on the other hand, never gamble on something I can't put my hands on. I never gamble, period. Well, actually, I play nickel ante poker... but that is more like entertainment that actually pays me a very very small wage for my time. ... The only stocks I own are IBM (big dollars - bought really low) Like around $45/sh? Big Blue is looking OK right now, although I think their divesting of money-making divisions is making some people nervous. ... and a couple of oil companies. Hard to go wrong there. I expect them to start paying dividends in oil any day now. My new investment strategy is if I can't put my hands on it, I ain't investing in it. Can you put your hands on applied business technology? Can you put your hands on an energy distribution network? Ideas are the most valuable thing of all... well, make that ideas and hard work... but both are rather slippery to enter in a spreadsheet. Real estate - in particular multi-family homes. Can't go wrong - everybody gotta live somewhere. :) You heard it here first- real estate across the board is going to lag inflation for the next few years at least. If people are paying more for energy, they will of necessity have less to spend for rent & groceries. My capital (what of it is not in no-load index funds) gets invested in business sectors that show high growth in their lobbying expenditures. It's a cynical outlook, but so far has paid off... hey I'm in it for the money! Regards Doug King |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:59:54 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "DSK" wrote in message t... Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: But that's ok because he's a good guy lunatic. :) Flattery will get you nowhere. But flattery and a good cup of coffee might... Im easy... Slut. LOL!! What are YOU laughing at? I hear you can be had for as little as a box of frozen squid! :) |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Depends on what you or your friend mean by "tanks". Tim wrote: In general wheen we were talking about the economy "tanking" was in reference to a reply of the market crash of 1929. That kind of "tanking" The market crash of 1987 was actually worse, so that kind of "tanking" can't really be so bad eh? ;) What happened in 1929 was not only the loss of capital when the stock market crashed, but a subsequent & very long lasting slackening in what's called aggregate demand... the amount of overall stuff people buy... resulting in every business' profits drying up. This was followed by the gov't reducing expenditures to balance the budget because they were suffering loss of tax revenue... and it was also worsened by the failure of many many banks. In fact the bank failure may have been one of the biggest causes of the ongoing Depression, and one of the things that could not happen again today, due to the changes in the structure of the U.S. gov't's finances and national banking (the Federal Reserve among other things, the F.D.I.C. for another). We will have recessions from time to time, followed by periods of inflation... it's built into the way our economy is structured and it is part of what prevents another Depression (at least, that's what economic theorists say now). If you really want to learn about it, I strongly recommend Galbraith's book "The Great Crash of '29" which is about the most entertaining & readable economics book I have ever seen. But don't let any neo-conservatives see you with it, they have branded Galbraith a liberal traitor weeny... probably because he was friends with Wm. F. Buckley... dang another long post... but at least there's no politics... well, not much... DSK |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
Just playing a little devils advocate....but real estate has it's ups and
downs also. HERETIC! BURN HIM!! BURN HIM AT THE STAKE, NOW!!! Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: Single family homes - you bet. Multi-family homes - safer than Fort Knox. Umm, not really. If you look at the earnings & share pricing of REITs specializing in attached housing, you'll see it. .... You will never lose your money on a rental property. Hey, that sounds too good to be true! Can I get it in writing? ;) ... You might not appreciate in value to your liking, but you will make money. Actually I have a number of friends who have ended up owning rental property, and found the profits to be irregular (although very good when they're rolling) and the management to be a PITA. Going to the sheriff to get a deadbeat tenant evicted is a bummer, as is re-drywalling & re-flooring a place that has been trashed. As the current real estate "boom" begins to cool off, many people around the country are going to find themselves upside down with their mortgages. Seeing it now, but again, single family homes with huge mortgages. Bingo Pay cash. If ya got it. The smart person will always work to get the force of compound interest working for him, rather than against him, in any sort of capital endeavor. Real estate is not immune from price depreciation. Not true. It's always worth what you paid for it. Can I get that in writing too? Actually, Shortwave's point about interest is a good one... if you take out the interest paid, and the taxes paid... and the maintenance paid... often you will find that owning residential property gives only a very modest return even when prices have seemingly boomed. Jane Bryan Quinn said it best... the value of a home is to live in it. Don't look to you house to make you rich. This is something you or I have no control over anymore than we do with stocks/bonds/commodities except the latter are much more liquid, and for that matter can be more volatile. I don't agree. If you aren't greedy, you will always make money. If you aren't greedy, why would you be interested in making money? ;) It's when you go for the big score, you risk everything. I never go for the big score. Slow steady wins the race. Bingo again Personally, I have shifted more & more of my investments into "slow & steady" mutual funds, which are diversified portfolios in the palm of your hand. Obviously some are better than others, which is why I favor simple & cheap index funds. There are even bond index funds for income and for taking skyrocketing stock gains off the table. Regards Doug King |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:35:47 GMT, Don White
wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. Oh my! Jackoff will make sure those Palm Sisters take a beating tonight. It's apparent that Kevin's been passing out samples of his crop to you guys. |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:59:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message .. . So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Nope. There was some discussion about some talking heads on PBS, but there is no cite with solid facts on your 25-35%, because that doesn't exist. However, what is curious is that you made the statement: The oil companies, knowing this, do whatever they want with the price. That's a crime, and should be dealt with. But you also said this about them: Other businesses make higher margins and it doesn't bother you. So some companies make (much) higher margins than oil companies, but for some reason you think the oil companies are committing a crime? Surely you realize that they have an obligation to their investors to make money, yes? Then you blame the price not on the oil companies, but on futures trading by people who aren't in the business. You said: Limit futures trading to companies which have a material interest in the commodity being traded, in this case, oil. Eliminate speculators, who, by definition, are in no way involved with the production of petroleum products. This latter group is simply playing games. Stopping this would not totally eliminate the fluff in the price, but it would go far in that direction. Understand that I agree with you on some of your points. However, you're all over the map on this. You seem to just be ****ed about the price, and are blaming everyone except the guy behind the register at your local 7-11. Is it the oil companies, or the speculators? And why does gas cost us *half* of what it cost the rest of the civilized world? Could it be that the oil companies are indeed aware that the US is dependant on oil, and are attempting to hold down the cost here in some ways? |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:59:54 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "DSK" wrote in message et... Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: But that's ok because he's a good guy lunatic. :) Flattery will get you nowhere. But flattery and a good cup of coffee might... Im easy... Slut. LOL!! What are YOU laughing at? I hear you can be had for as little as a box of frozen squid! :) Or a good cigar. Eisboch |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:40:17 -0400, "ACP" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:03:29 -0400, DSK wrote: Many people are actually gambling, not investing, All people investing in stock/bond/commodities are gambling. It's the nature of the process. I, on the other hand, never gamble on something I can't put my hands on. Gave that up right before 9/11. The only stocks I own are IBM (big dollars - bought really low) and a couple of oil companies. My new investment strategy is if I can't put my hands on it, I ain't investing in it. Real estate - in particular multi-family homes. Can't go wrong - everybody gotta live somewhere. :) Just playing a little devils advocate....but real estate has it's ups and downs also. Single family homes - you bet. Multi-family homes - safer than Fort Knox. You will never lose your money on a rental property. You might not appreciate in value to your liking, but you will make money. As the current real estate "boom" begins to cool off, many people around the country are going to find themselves upside down with their mortgages. Seeing it now, but again, single family homes with huge mortgages. Pay cash. Real estate is not immune from price depreciation. Not true. It's always worth what you paid for it. Now, if you add in interest, well, that's a different story. This is something you or I have no control over anymore than we do with stocks/bonds/commodities except the latter are much more liquid, and for that matter can be more volatile. I don't agree. If you aren't greedy, you will always make money. It's when you go for the big score, you risk everything. I never go for the big score. Slow steady wins the race. Personally, I keep any extra cash stuffed into a mattress. Eisboch |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:35:47 GMT, Don White wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. Oh my! Jackoff will make sure those Palm Sisters take a beating tonight. I keep thinking you may be a little above it. You keep proving me wrong. -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"Eisboch" wrote:
Personally, I keep any extra cash stuffed into a mattress. Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: Or that. :) As investments go, that one's a sleeper. I recommend putting it in mason jars and burying in the back yard. Emptying the mason jars is the fun part. DSK |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
Hey, that sounds too good to be true! Can I get it in writing?
;) Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: I just wrote it. OK thanks. Do you offer a double-your-money-back guarantee? Every property we own, we've owned for at least ten years. Over time, it's fairly inflation proof and the basic money paid on the property is protected not to mention the income which works. We make money on every property. Just because it's happened for you, doesn't mean it will happen for everybody. But let's not bicker and argue. Real estate is a pretty good inflation hedge, except that it's also sensitive to interest rates... an episode of stagflation (which really isn't all that rare, in economic history... look up the Phillips Curve) for example will see high interest rates making real estate hard to sell and put downward pressure on rents & values. ... It's really a question of good tenants, keeping the property up and being willing to take a punch once in a while. Exactly. A run of bad luck can radically change the cash flow picture. I've known perfectly good rental property... near a university, no less... to sit empty for six months. If those punches you speak of come in a flurry, you could be so far into the red that selling looks very attractive. OTOH an REIT never has those problems... the returns just fall below expectations ;) .... it does pay to spend the time checking out renters even if it takes some time. We do a credit check, income check and generally rent to those who can really afford it instead of anybody who comes along with a security deposit, first and last months rent, etc. If the unit sits for a month, so be it - that's a cost of doing business too. Some places have "right to rent" laws which make it very difficult to weed out undesirable tenants. Sounds dumb but it's true. This is one reason why I say it pays to know the laws in your area. We've had the best luck with, of all things, union painters, brick layers, carpenters, etc. That's a good tip... the reasoning seems sound too. Jane Bryan Quinn said it best... the value of a home is to live in it. Don't look to you house to make you rich. With that, I disagree. Too many people want homes to return a quick buck. For the past five/six years, that was possible, but the true value, if you will, is owning a property long term - as in twenty years or more . We have owned our house for almost 25 years. This area has been one of the better real estate moarkets, not the hottest but OTOH not ripe for a crash either, with a very strong local economy. Just for the sake of knowing, I did an ROI calculation for our house. After taking out taxes & repairs, and assuming that we could sell for the ridiculously high amount Zillow.com suggests, we'd realize about 5% annually... wowee zowee what an awesome investment that turned out to be! You don't have to be greedy to make money. It's the difference between trying to turn $1,000 into $100,000 every two weeks or taking $1,000 into $100,000 every ten years. The first is very risky and carries a tons of pitfalls, the later gives a safer return over a longer period of time. True but you have to have the attitude & the self discipline to *not* spend that $1k on pizza and video games, which is what 90% of the human race would do every time. What's better - making a $1,000,000 on a chance that will pay off 15% of the time, or making a $1,000,000 on a chance that will pay off 80% of the time? If you make it, the odds don't matter ;) But I take your point to be that high returns don't come without high risk, which I completely agree with and many people seem to turn a blind eye... especially if they win a gamble once or twice... like all the California real estate investors who are convinced they can't possibly lose money... or the people who started ballyhooing dot-com stocks and saying that a gazillion dollar market cap was perfectly reasonable for a "corporation" consisting of 6 college kids who are brilliant programmers but whose only corporate product is something they can't explain and have to give away. Personally, I have shifted more & more of my investments into "slow & steady" mutual funds, which are diversified portfolios in the palm of your hand. Obviously some are better than others, which is why I favor simple & cheap index funds. There are even bond index funds for income and for taking skyrocketing stock gains off the table. That's how my wife looks at it. She's obviously a woman of great intelligence. Oh and one other thing... the bond funds also provide a cash influx... which you can take as income or redeposit as growth... for those times when the stocks fail to skyrocket. That is part of the benefit of diversification. Now... on topic: just exactly what percent of one's net worth is it prudent to spend on a boat? Fair Skies Doug King |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
Jack Goff wrote:
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:35:47 GMT, Don White wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. Oh my! Jackoff will make sure those Palm Sisters take a beating tonight. It's apparent that Kevin's been passing out samples of his crop to you guys. Kevin who? |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:35:47 GMT, Don White wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. Oh my! Jackoff will make sure those Palm Sisters take a beating tonight. I keep thinking you may be a little above it. You keep proving me wrong. -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I'm a believer of.. 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'. |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
"Jack Goff" wrote in message
... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:59:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message . .. So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Nope. There was some discussion about some talking heads on PBS, but there is no cite with solid facts on your 25-35%, because that doesn't exist. These were not "talking heads". These were commodities brokers who live with the numbers all day long. If the barrel price jumps X amount in one day, and they see absolutely NOTHING to cause it, other than amateurs bidding up the price, then what they've pointed out is quite conclusive. You would do well to use stocks as an analogy. The price often has absolutely NOTHING to do with financial reality. Company "A" announces a shaky quarter, and stocks in 100 unrelated companies take a 3 day nosedive. Oil's even worse. Day #1, a mosque is blown to pieces in Baghdad, and up goes the price of oil. 7 days later, another mosque is destroyed, and nothing happens to oil because attention is elsewhere - maybe the World Series. All wrong. Oh, and go find your own cites. I'm not your research assistant. If you'd like to wallow in ignorance, that's your decision. |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 18:50:30 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:59:54 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "DSK" wrote in message .net... Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: But that's ok because he's a good guy lunatic. :) Flattery will get you nowhere. But flattery and a good cup of coffee might... Im easy... Slut. LOL!! What are YOU laughing at? I hear you can be had for as little as a box of frozen squid! :) Or a good cigar. Sadly, that's true. Is it true that cigars repel mosquitoes? Any particular brand? |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Jack Goff" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:59:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message ... So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Nope. There was some discussion about some talking heads on PBS, but there is no cite with solid facts on your 25-35%, because that doesn't exist. These were not "talking heads". These were commodities brokers who live with the numbers all day long. If the barrel price jumps X amount in one day, and they see absolutely NOTHING to cause it, other than amateurs bidding up the price, then what they've pointed out is quite conclusive. You would do well to use stocks as an analogy. The price often has absolutely NOTHING to do with financial reality. Company "A" announces a shaky quarter, and stocks in 100 unrelated companies take a 3 day nosedive. Oil's even worse. Day #1, a mosque is blown to pieces in Baghdad, and up goes the price of oil. 7 days later, another mosque is destroyed, and nothing happens to oil because attention is elsewhere - maybe the World Series. All wrong. Oh, and go find your own cites. I'm not your research assistant. If you'd like to wallow in ignorance, that's your decision. In the amounts of money being traded in oil futures, any "amateurs" are quickly weeded out! They are George Soro, et al, and since he has made a couple billion trading money futures, enough that he can generate the moves he wants now, |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
"White Owl"
They stink like feathers burning! JoeSpareBedroom wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 18:50:30 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:59:54 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "DSK" wrote in message .net... Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: But that's ok because he's a good guy lunatic. :) Flattery will get you nowhere. But flattery and a good cup of coffee might... Im easy... Slut. LOL!! What are YOU laughing at? I hear you can be had for as little as a box of frozen squid! :) Or a good cigar. Sadly, that's true. Is it true that cigars repel mosquitoes? Any particular brand? |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:19:47 -0400, DSK wrote:
Now... on topic: just exactly what percent of one's net worth is it prudent to spend on a boat? Zero. :-) Boats are an imprudent expense. You've got to love them. |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 01:46:24 GMT, Don White wrote:
JohnH wrote: On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:35:47 GMT, Don White wrote: JoeSpareBedroom wrote: Whatever scenario would make jackoff happy. I slit all their throats afterward, and stole the manager's accounts. Whatever. Oh my! Jackoff will make sure those Palm Sisters take a beating tonight. I keep thinking you may be a little above it. You keep proving me wrong. -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John I'm a believer of.. 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'. You may have found a couple Romans to follow, but you're not in Rome. How's your mom doing? -- ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** John |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 03:40:23 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:59:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message ... So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Nope. There was some discussion about some talking heads on PBS, but there is no cite with solid facts on your 25-35%, because that doesn't exist. These were not "talking heads". These were commodities brokers who live with the numbers all day long. If the barrel price jumps X amount in one day, and they see absolutely NOTHING to cause it, other than amateurs bidding up the price, then what they've pointed out is quite conclusive. OK, let's us that number. Here's the rest of my post: However, what is curious is that you made the statement: The oil companies, knowing this, do whatever they want with the price. That's a crime, and should be dealt with. But you also said this about them: Other businesses make higher margins and it doesn't bother you. So some companies make (much) higher margins than oil companies, but for some reason you think the oil companies are committing a crime? Surely you realize that they have an obligation to their investors to make money, yes? Then you blame the price not on the oil companies, but on futures trading by people who aren't in the business. You said: Limit futures trading to companies which have a material interest in the commodity being traded, in this case, oil. Eliminate speculators, who, by definition, are in no way involved with the production of petroleum products. This latter group is simply playing games. Stopping this would not totally eliminate the fluff in the price, but it would go far in that direction. Understand that I agree with you on some of your points. However, you're all over the map on this. You seem to just be ****ed about the price, and are blaming everyone except the guy behind the register at your local 7-11. Is it the oil companies, or the speculators? And why does gas cost us *half* of what it cost the rest of the civilized world? Could it be that the oil companies are indeed aware that the US is dependant on oil, and are attempting to hold down the cost here in some ways? |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
"Jack Goff" wrote in message
... On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 03:40:23 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:59:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Jack Goff" wrote in message m... So now the US is an island, insulated from the rest of the world? Everyone else is "irrelevant"? Really? So the price is 25 - 35% "trading excess" (cite?), which is the futures traders as you've said before, right? But then the oil companies are to blame for the price, not the traders. Uh huh. CITE: It was provided earlier in this discussion. Use your search feature to find the first message containing "PBS", and read forward from there. Nope. There was some discussion about some talking heads on PBS, but there is no cite with solid facts on your 25-35%, because that doesn't exist. These were not "talking heads". These were commodities brokers who live with the numbers all day long. If the barrel price jumps X amount in one day, and they see absolutely NOTHING to cause it, other than amateurs bidding up the price, then what they've pointed out is quite conclusive. OK, let's us that number. Here's the rest of my post: However, what is curious is that you made the statement: The oil companies, knowing this, do whatever they want with the price. That's a crime, and should be dealt with. But you also said this about them: Other businesses make higher margins and it doesn't bother you. So some companies make (much) higher margins than oil companies, but for some reason you think the oil companies are committing a crime? Surely you realize that they have an obligation to their investors to make money, yes? Then you blame the price not on the oil companies, but on futures trading by people who aren't in the business. You said: Limit futures trading to companies which have a material interest in the commodity being traded, in this case, oil. Eliminate speculators, who, by definition, are in no way involved with the production of petroleum products. This latter group is simply playing games. Stopping this would not totally eliminate the fluff in the price, but it would go far in that direction. Understand that I agree with you on some of your points. However, you're all over the map on this. You seem to just be ****ed about the price, and are blaming everyone except the guy behind the register at your local 7-11. Is it the oil companies, or the speculators? And why does gas cost us *half* of what it cost the rest of the civilized world? Could it be that the oil companies are indeed aware that the US is dependant on oil, and are attempting to hold down the cost here in some ways? As I said, the blame could be twofold. If you want to buy a certain stock and the price is inflated due to no fault of yours, you may go ahead and buy it anyway. In that sense, you're a victim since the price has been inflated by others. This analogy points right back to my comments about a resource being manipulated by people who are outsiders. It would be interesting if a few oil companies were asked (i.e.: handed subpoenas) and had to reveal what their actual raw material cost has been since they began using Iraq as an excuse. |
Gasoline prices - gold as a hedge
Now... on topic: just exactly what percent of one's net
worth is it prudent to spend on a boat? Wayne.B wrote: Zero. :-) Boats are an imprudent expense. You've got to love them. Good answer. DSK |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
Jack Goff wrote:
.... Could it be that the oil companies are indeed aware that the US is dependant on oil, and are attempting to hold down the cost here in some ways? Makes good sense, yes... in a discussion of record oil company profits, suggesting that they are "Holding" the cost of oil down... I guess they are struggling mightily so as not to make even larger record profits. To borrow a phrase from one of Doug's earlier posts: Some people wallow in ignorance, others seem to marinate in it. DSK |
Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
"DSK" wrote in message
... Jack Goff wrote: .... Could it be that the oil companies are indeed aware that the US is dependant on oil, and are attempting to hold down the cost here in some ways? Makes good sense, yes... in a discussion of record oil company profits, suggesting that they are "Holding" the cost of oil down... I guess they are struggling mightily so as not to make even larger record profits. To borrow a phrase from one of Doug's earlier posts: Some people wallow in ignorance, others seem to marinate in it. DSK Jeez....you must've really liked that "marinate" line. How long ago was that? :-) |
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