I was given a small aluminum runabout last fall. It has a 33hp
Evinrude "SkiTwin" engine. I put it in the water and it fired
right up. Perfect little boat for a small lake and tubing for a
10yr old. I've been guessing on the fuelil mix as I haven't
been able to find any docs or info. Just informal and conflicting
advice ranging from 24:1 to 50:1. I've been running it on appx
40:1 and its been happy. I've put about 3 hrs total on it from
then till now, 2.8 of them last fall.

A few days ago I fired it up for the season and it ran great. Ran it
for about 20mins at all speeds. Tank was low so I pulled it and
refilled it. I found a bit of info on the web that said 32:1 , so
since
it was the 1st time I found something that sounded firm, I mixed
up a fresh tank of 32:1 and plugged it in. Started and stalled,
Started
and Stalled. No start after that. The next day I realized I had left
the
vent on the tank closed, and opened it expecting ignition. No
joy. Still no start.

So, I pulled the cowl, and checked the plugs, they're a bit dirty
but not fouled or worn. I pulled the fuel line at the engine and
confirmed that gas is coming thru the line by pushing the ball
valve in and squeezing the bulb. I see fuel/oil in the water when
trying to start.

I know car engines and am a careful DIY mechanic. It behaves
like theres no spark, but that doesn't jive with changing fuel.
I expected fouled plugs due to a possibly wrong fuel mix for
this motor, but found them to be OK.

So there's the whole puzzle. My questions a
- My next step will be to verify a spark on the plug. Can I pull
the plug, attach the wire, ground it on the block to test or is
that a No No on this motor?
- Does ANYONE know what fuelil mix i should be feeding it?
I read 32:1 and was also told that 50:1 is Ok with modern day
2cycle oil.
- should I pull the hose from the output side of the fuel pump
looking thing and verify flow, or does the slick when trying to
start already confirm flow?
- Based on the events as described, any ideas? I'm starting to
think it may be an unrelated failure of some sort, but as I stated,
I'm completely new to 2cycle engines.

Any advice other than pull the engine and hump it off to a shop
is requested. I'll hump it off as a last resort, but would rather
figure it out with the help of some good advice.

Heres the patient:
http://geocities.com/mpdsville1/MyBoat/

Thanks !
Mike D

wrote:

I was given a small aluminum runabout last fall. It has a 33hp
Evinrude "SkiTwin" engine. I put it in the water and it fired
right up. Perfect little boat for a small lake and tubing for a
10yr old. I've been guessing on the fuelil mix as I haven't
been able to find any docs or info. Just informal and conflicting
advice ranging from 24:1 to 50:1. I've been running it on appx
40:1 and its been happy. I've put about 3 hrs total on it from
then till now, 2.8 of them last fall.

A few days ago I fired it up for the season and it ran great. Ran it
for about 20mins at all speeds. Tank was low so I pulled it and
refilled it. I found a bit of info on the web that said 32:1 , so
since
it was the 1st time I found something that sounded firm, I mixed
up a fresh tank of 32:1 and plugged it in. Started and stalled,
Started
and Stalled. No start after that. The next day I realized I had left
the
vent on the tank closed, and opened it expecting ignition. No
joy. Still no start.

So, I pulled the cowl, and checked the plugs, they're a bit dirty
but not fouled or worn. I pulled the fuel line at the engine and
confirmed that gas is coming thru the line by pushing the ball
valve in and squeezing the bulb. I see fuel/oil in the water when
trying to start.

I know car engines and am a careful DIY mechanic. It behaves
like theres no spark, but that doesn't jive with changing fuel.
I expected fouled plugs due to a possibly wrong fuel mix for
this motor, but found them to be OK.

So there's the whole puzzle. My questions a
- My next step will be to verify a spark on the plug. Can I pull
the plug, attach the wire, ground it on the block to test

Yes - do it in a well vented area. The OMC spark tester just clamps to
the block.

or is
that a No No on this motor?
- Does ANYONE know what fuelil mix i should be feeding it?

The 33's & 28's always did fine for us in fleet use(we had several still
going strong 20 years ago) with TCW-3 oil at 50:1 (a pint to a six
gallon tank).

I read 32:1 and was also told that 50:1 is Ok with modern day
2cycle oil.

Sounds good.

- should I pull the hose from the output side of the fuel pump
looking thing and verify flow, or does the slick when trying to
start already confirm flow?

The engine is flooded. Too much fuel. Clean & dry the plugs, don't use
the choke, crack the throttle open a little extra to help start a
flooded engine.

- Based on the events as described, any ideas? I'm starting to
think it may be an unrelated failure of some sort, but as I stated,
I'm completely new to 2cycle engines.

Any advice other than pull the engine and hump it off to a shop
is requested. I'll hump it off as a last resort, but would rather
figure it out with the help of some good advice.

Basics first - fuel - air - compression - spark. If you're using
Champion spark plugs, change them annually - J4C plugs.

Heres the patient:
http://geocities.com/mpdsville1/MyBoat/

Looks great!

Rob

trainfan1 wrote:
wrote:

I was given a small aluminum runabout last fall. It has a 33hp
Evinrude "SkiTwin" engine. I put it in the water and it fired
right up. Perfect little boat for a small lake and tubing for a
10yr old. I've been guessing on the fuelil mix as I haven't
been able to find any docs or info. Just informal and conflicting
advice ranging from 24:1 to 50:1. I've been running it on appx
40:1 and its been happy. I've put about 3 hrs total on it from
then till now, 2.8 of them last fall.

A few days ago I fired it up for the season and it ran great. Ran it
for about 20mins at all speeds. Tank was low so I pulled it and
refilled it. I found a bit of info on the web that said 32:1 , so
since
it was the 1st time I found something that sounded firm, I mixed
up a fresh tank of 32:1 and plugged it in. Started and stalled,
Started
and Stalled. No start after that. The next day I realized I had left
the
vent on the tank closed, and opened it expecting ignition. No
joy. Still no start.

So, I pulled the cowl, and checked the plugs, they're a bit dirty
but not fouled or worn. I pulled the fuel line at the engine and
confirmed that gas is coming thru the line by pushing the ball
valve in and squeezing the bulb. I see fuel/oil in the water when
trying to start.

I know car engines and am a careful DIY mechanic. It behaves
like theres no spark, but that doesn't jive with changing fuel.
I expected fouled plugs due to a possibly wrong fuel mix for
this motor, but found them to be OK.

So there's the whole puzzle. My questions a
- My next step will be to verify a spark on the plug. Can I pull
the plug, attach the wire, ground it on the block to test

Yes - do it in a well vented area. The OMC spark tester just clamps to
the block.

Will do! The fuel will be coming out of the open spark plug socket.
I'll plug it wit a rag, and put out my smoke before playing with it.


or is
that a No No on this motor?
- Does ANYONE know what fuelil mix i should be feeding it?

The 33's & 28's always did fine for us in fleet use(we had several still
going strong 20 years ago) with TCW-3 oil at 50:1 (a pint to a six
gallon tank).


Probably a spankable newbie question, but you mention TCW-3. I wasn't
looking at grades of two-cycle oil. Never noticed a weight grade on
them.
Should I Be?

I read 32:1 and was also told that 50:1 is Ok with modern day
2cycle oil.

Sounds good.

Umm.. 32:1 sounds good or 50:1 Sounds good?


- should I pull the hose from the output side of the fuel pump
looking thing and verify flow, or does the slick when trying to
start already confirm flow?

The engine is flooded. Too much fuel. Clean & dry the plugs, don't use
the choke, crack the throttle open a little extra to help start a
flooded engine.



- Based on the events as described, any ideas? I'm starting to
think it may be an unrelated failure of some sort, but as I stated,
I'm completely new to 2cycle engines.

Any advice other than pull the engine and hump it off to a shop
is requested. I'll hump it off as a last resort, but would rather
figure it out with the help of some good advice.

Basics first - fuel - air - compression - spark. If you're using
Champion spark plugs, change them annually - J4C plugs.

Will change them anyways tomorrow..basics first..


Heres the patient:
http://geocities.com/mpdsville1/MyBoat/

Looks great!

Rob

wrote:





Probably a spankable newbie question, but you mention TCW-3. I wasn't
looking at grades of two-cycle oil. Never noticed a weight grade on
them.
Should I Be?

Two cycle oil used to be sold by weight, I still have some SAE 30 & SAE
40 Quaker State bottles, but TCW-3 is a standard for ashless oil
primarily for water cooled engines(& used broadly beyond boats), which
superceded TCW-2 & TCW oils. It is a voluntary NMMA rating, if you are
using a recognizible brand of outboard oil you are OK. Just don't use
those little cans of Poulan or Deere or McCulloch oil meant for string
trimmers or chain saws. They often don't have the TCW-2 or TCW-3
rating, and are usually specified to be mixed at odd ratios to make
smaller batches of mixed fuel for household/homeowner use.


I read 32:1 and was also told that 50:1 is Ok with modern day
2cycle oil.

Sounds good.


Umm.. 32:1 sounds good or 50:1 Sounds good?


50:1 Sounds good - see above.

Rob

Been there, done that - "glazed plugs". They look good,
but they get some invisable conductive glazing, and short.

Replace the plugs, and go with nothing more that 50:1
of the XD-25 oil available at Gi-Joes, and everywhe
http://parts.evinrude.com/info/parts/oil/oil.htm


"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
wrote:





Probably a spankable newbie question, but you mention TCW-3. I wasn't
looking at grades of two-cycle oil. Never noticed a weight grade on
them.
Should I Be?

Two cycle oil used to be sold by weight, I still have some SAE 30 & SAE
40 Quaker State bottles, but TCW-3 is a standard for ashless oil
primarily for water cooled engines(& used broadly beyond boats), which
superceded TCW-2 & TCW oils. It is a voluntary NMMA rating, if you are
using a recognizible brand of outboard oil you are OK. Just don't use
those little cans of Poulan or Deere or McCulloch oil meant for string
trimmers or chain saws. They often don't have the TCW-2 or TCW-3
rating, and are usually specified to be mixed at odd ratios to make
smaller batches of mixed fuel for household/homeowner use.


I read 32:1 and was also told that 50:1 is Ok with modern day
2cycle oil.

Sounds good.


Umm.. 32:1 sounds good or 50:1 Sounds good?


50:1 Sounds good - see above.

Rob

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message

Replace the plugs, and go with nothing more that 50:1
of the XD-25 oil available at Gi-Joes, and everywhe
http://parts.evinrude.com/info/parts/oil/oil.htm

OMC's XD-25 is more marketing hype than oil, perhaps it has an additive that
can stop the new E-techs from blowing up, but I doubt it. ANY good TCW-3
at 50/1 is fine for that older outboard.

Note that Mercury and OMC do not own a refinery.... thier oil is made to
specs by the LOWEST BIDDER.

-W

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
k.net...

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message

Replace the plugs, and go with nothing more that 50:1
of the XD-25 oil available at Gi-Joes, and everywhe
http://parts.evinrude.com/info/parts/oil/oil.htm

OMC's XD-25 is more marketing hype than oil, perhaps it has an additive
that
can stop the new E-techs from blowing up, but I doubt it. ANY good
TCW-3
at 50/1 is fine for that older outboard.

Note that Mercury and OMC do not own a refinery.... thier oil is made to
specs by the LOWEST BIDDER.

Could be, but after many many years of playing with 2-strokes
in high-end large model airplanes with expensive engines turning
up at 12K RPM's all day, and numerous outboards, I find XD25
to be almost as good as Redline, BelRay and Yamma lube blend,
and I judge them on: plug glazing, deposits, wear, and exhaust residue.
Not all TCW-3's are the same, I had issues with Valvoline's TCW3.
You said: any "good" TCW3, which implies, and is an open admision
that there are "bad" TCW3's (otherwise you'da said just "any" TCW3).





-W

BIG SNIP

Put some gas directly into the cylinders and it fired, then died out.

I pulled the carb. Figuring the gas tank change/refill must have sent
some debris/crud/whatever into the carb.
Opened up the bowl and observed float valve not coming out of
its hole by gravity. Gently unstuck it. took it out and wiped it
clean. Internals of the carb were spotless BTW. Rubber tip on
float valve is clean and un-damaged.
Examined High-Speed (rich/lean) screw.(The one on the bottom
that feeds the bowl) Real clean , undamaged.
Pulled Low-Speed (rich/lean) screw.(Long brass needle valve
on top) Tip of valve has an offcenter crease on it but looks
sound. (The crease didnt just appear so it isnt the cause of my
immediate problem). Reassembled carb. Blew air thru the fuel inlet
pipe of carb. Heard airflow that I didnt before.
Reinstalled Carb. Fired it up. It ran VERY rough but ran. Turned the
low speed screw to all the way rich and it chugged out. Back to
lean and it ran rough again.

Clearly I didnt put the upper screw in at the exact depth it came out
at. Close , but no cigar.

Q: Anyone know what the initial settings for this carb should be? I
know them for my tractor carb (all the way closed then 1.5 turns
out) but not this one. My fault for careless disassembly.
Q: Engine has J6C plugs in it. Previous post calls for J4C and engine
spec calls for J4N. What SHOULD be in there?

Thanks to all!

wrote:
BIG SNIP

Put some gas directly into the cylinders and it fired, then died out.

I pulled the carb. Figuring the gas tank change/refill must have sent
some debris/crud/whatever into the carb.
Opened up the bowl and observed float valve not coming out of
its hole by gravity. Gently unstuck it. took it out and wiped it
clean. Internals of the carb were spotless BTW. Rubber tip on
float valve is clean and un-damaged.
Examined High-Speed (rich/lean) screw.(The one on the bottom
that feeds the bowl) Real clean , undamaged.
Pulled Low-Speed (rich/lean) screw.(Long brass needle valve
on top) Tip of valve has an offcenter crease on it but looks
sound. (The crease didnt just appear so it isnt the cause of my
immediate problem). Reassembled carb. Blew air thru the fuel inlet
pipe of carb. Heard airflow that I didnt before.
Reinstalled Carb. Fired it up. It ran VERY rough but ran. Turned the
low speed screw to all the way rich and it chugged out. Back to
lean and it ran rough again.

Clearly I didnt put the upper screw in at the exact depth it came out
at. Close , but no cigar.

Q: Anyone know what the initial settings for this carb should be? I
know them for my tractor carb (all the way closed then 1.5 turns
out) but not this one. My fault for careless disassembly.
Q: Engine has J6C plugs in it. Previous post calls for J4C and engine
spec calls for J4N. What SHOULD be in there?

Thanks to all!
Afterthoughts
Q: After this its off to the pro's. Is it reasonable to expect I
can bring the carb and not the whole motor?
Q: Can I out an inline filter somewhere to prevent what appears
to be a debris-in-fuel related failure?

Thanks Again to all for helping out.

wrote:

BIG SNIP

Put some gas directly into the cylinders and it fired, then died out.

I pulled the carb. Figuring the gas tank change/refill must have sent
some debris/crud/whatever into the carb.
Opened up the bowl and observed float valve not coming out of
its hole by gravity. Gently unstuck it. took it out and wiped it
clean. Internals of the carb were spotless BTW. Rubber tip on
float valve is clean and un-damaged.
Examined High-Speed (rich/lean) screw.(The one on the bottom
that feeds the bowl) Real clean , undamaged.
Pulled Low-Speed (rich/lean) screw.(Long brass needle valve
on top) Tip of valve has an offcenter crease on it but looks
sound. (The crease didnt just appear so it isnt the cause of my
immediate problem). Reassembled carb. Blew air thru the fuel inlet
pipe of carb. Heard airflow that I didnt before.
Reinstalled Carb. Fired it up. It ran VERY rough but ran. Turned the
low speed screw to all the way rich and it chugged out. Back to
lean and it ran rough again.

Clearly I didnt put the upper screw in at the exact depth it came out
at. Close , but no cigar.

Q: Anyone know what the initial settings for this carb should be?

Upper - low speed needle - idle initial setting is 1.25 turns open.
Lower - high speed needle- initial setting is 3/4 turns open.
I
know them for my tractor carb (all the way closed then 1.5 turns
out) but not this one. My fault for careless disassembly.
Q: Engine has J6C plugs in it. Previous post calls for J4C and engine
spec calls for J4N. What SHOULD be in there?

J4C is the new designation for the J4J/J4N. It has a copper core.

Rob