Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it out
on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to
go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be Sunday
but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that
same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am cooking).
;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth for
your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you sprayed
onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a problem.
I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers of
placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm


Good information.

I have never run into long term problems because of sinking PT posts
directly into the ground and encasing them with concrete.

I wonder how long those galvanized brackets hold up? ;-)

Don White wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm

I don't care what those sites say, Don. It's NOT accepted practice and
actually violates most codes. It is COMMON practice, I fully realize,
and I do it sometimes myself. My front fence is done that way, and has
been for 11 years. It is showing some signs of rot though. My deck
around my pool, however, is done properly, that is pour a pier
(Sonotube), and float in a Simpson post anchor, which holds the post
off of the concrete like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...A-ABE-ABU.html

basskisser wrote:
Don White wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:

basskisser wrote:


JimH wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...


JimH wrote:


The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.


A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm


I don't care what those sites say, Don. It's NOT accepted practice and
actually violates most codes. It is COMMON practice, I fully realize,
and I do it sometimes myself. My front fence is done that way, and has
been for 11 years. It is showing some signs of rot though. My deck
around my pool, however, is done properly, that is pour a pier
(Sonotube), and float in a Simpson post anchor, which holds the post
off of the concrete like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...A-ABE-ABU.html


That base requires an anchor bolt in the concrete. Here is one for an
embedded application:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...rs/PB-PBS.html

The non-embedded variety allows for minor corrections in any direction.

Dan

Don White wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we
may take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week
to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that
same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my
daughter will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing
PT wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster
than if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm

Don,

You know what they say about opinions. Here is another one

http://www.decks.com/article15.aspx

If you notice, all 3 types of footings recommend keeping water away from
the wood. Concrete wicks water very effectively. It appears that the
problem with placing PT wood directly in contact with the ground or
concrete is there are direct grades of PT, and a varying degree of QC
among PT mfg'ers. They have also made changes in PT for consumer
consumption. Today, based upon what I think I know, I would keep PT
away from dirt and placed into concrete, but that is only my opinion and
you know everyone has one.

The reason this is important to me, is I had a neighbor who had to
replace a 10 yr old deck because the wood was placed into concrete, and
then over time, dirt had sat directly against the PT wood. When this
happened we were talking about it at a party and someone who works for a
real estate law firm, said she has seen this blow a home sale after the
home inspection comes in. The buyer wanted to seller to adjust their
price for repairs.

Here are some examples of why some don't recommend you place pressure
treated wood directly against dirt and concrete.

http://www.askthebuilder.com/EM0013_...ndations.shtml



--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it.