Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it out
on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to
go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be Sunday
but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that
same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am cooking).
;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth for
your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you sprayed
onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a problem.
I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers of
placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm


Good information.

I have never run into long term problems because of sinking PT posts
directly into the ground and encasing them with concrete.

I wonder how long those galvanized brackets hold up? ;-)

Jack Goff wrote:
On Thu, 25 May 2006 08:51:44 -0400, DSK wrote:

Jack Goff wrote:
.... Don't laugh, we consider North
Carolinians to be yankees. :-)


I know, I lived down there a while

You all have "barbecue" which contains rice & mustard....
that should at least get points for originality, I suppose


I grew up on mustard-based BBQ. The little local places have the good
stuff, not the Maurice Bessinger's crap. But we've gotten worldly
now... most places have vinegar and tomato based sauces as well.

The rice is for the string hash, not the BBQ. You can't eat BBQ
without hash!

A goup of us does BBQ at the local hole-in-the-wall every Friday for
lunch. Now I can't stop thinking about it! Glad tomorrow is Friday.

Got to agree with you about Maurice's! It's really interesting to study
BBQ by locality. Here in Atlanta, if you go to a REAL BBQ joint, you'll
notice a difference on whether you are east of Atlanta, or west.
Farther toward S.C. you get, the more mustard in the sauce. West, you
are in Alabama style sauces which are tomato based and thicker than
real Georgia types of sauces. Here it has to be Brunswick stew with our
BBQ.

Don White wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm

I don't care what those sites say, Don. It's NOT accepted practice and
actually violates most codes. It is COMMON practice, I fully realize,
and I do it sometimes myself. My front fence is done that way, and has
been for 11 years. It is showing some signs of rot though. My deck
around my pool, however, is done properly, that is pour a pier
(Sonotube), and float in a Simpson post anchor, which holds the post
off of the concrete like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...A-ABE-ABU.html

Don White wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we
may take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week
to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that
same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my
daughter will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing
PT wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster
than if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm

Don,

You know what they say about opinions. Here is another one

http://www.decks.com/article15.aspx

If you notice, all 3 types of footings recommend keeping water away from
the wood. Concrete wicks water very effectively. It appears that the
problem with placing PT wood directly in contact with the ground or
concrete is there are direct grades of PT, and a varying degree of QC
among PT mfg'ers. They have also made changes in PT for consumer
consumption. Today, based upon what I think I know, I would keep PT
away from dirt and placed into concrete, but that is only my opinion and
you know everyone has one.

The reason this is important to me, is I had a neighbor who had to
replace a 10 yr old deck because the wood was placed into concrete, and
then over time, dirt had sat directly against the PT wood. When this
happened we were talking about it at a party and someone who works for a
real estate law firm, said she has seen this blow a home sale after the
home inspection comes in. The buyer wanted to seller to adjust their
price for repairs.

Here are some examples of why some don't recommend you place pressure
treated wood directly against dirt and concrete.

http://www.askthebuilder.com/EM0013_...ndations.shtml



--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

On Thu, 25 May 2006 18:32:01 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

Last year at this time on our trip north, we saw quite a few dolphins
feeding on the surface in the vicinity of Porposie Banks approx 8
miles SSE of Chincoteague Inlet, and also near the fish haven 5 miles
east of Indian River Inlet.


Are you coming north this year?

It doesn't look likely unless I decide to actually retire in the next
month or so. Last year I worked from the boat the whole time we were
north. That went OK but limited our cruising time to weekends, and
our weekday destinations to harbors with good WiFi and cell phone
service. It was getting to be a hassel towards the end but certainly
was an interesting way to spend the summer. My wifes parents are also
experiencing some health issues and that is keeping us a little closer
to home.

This year I've already run through most of my vacation time between
our February cruise to St Pete Beach and the Everglades, and our
Abacos/Bahamas cruise last month. We have lots of good weekend
destinations around here and when the hurricane season arrives we'll
just hunker down and hope for the best. Our dock is reasonably well
protected and if it looks like a seriously bad storm is headed our way
I can bail out to the east coast or up river.

If things go as planned I'll probably retire next April and will
definitely plan to go north again next summer if the price of diesel
doesn't go totally hyperbolic and the family situation permits.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 May 2006 18:32:01 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

Last year at this time on our trip north, we saw quite a few dolphins
feeding on the surface in the vicinity of Porposie Banks approx 8
miles SSE of Chincoteague Inlet, and also near the fish haven 5 miles
east of Indian River Inlet.


Are you coming north this year?

It doesn't look likely unless I decide to actually retire in the next
month or so. Last year I worked from the boat the whole time we were
north. That went OK but limited our cruising time to weekends, and
our weekday destinations to harbors with good WiFi and cell phone
service. It was getting to be a hassel towards the end but certainly
was an interesting way to spend the summer. My wifes parents are also
experiencing some health issues and that is keeping us a little closer
to home.

This year I've already run through most of my vacation time between
our February cruise to St Pete Beach and the Everglades, and our
Abacos/Bahamas cruise last month. We have lots of good weekend
destinations around here and when the hurricane season arrives we'll
just hunker down and hope for the best. Our dock is reasonably well
protected and if it looks like a seriously bad storm is headed our way
I can bail out to the east coast or up river.

If things go as planned I'll probably retire next April and will
definitely plan to go north again next summer if the price of diesel
doesn't go totally hyperbolic and the family situation permits.

Aging parents and their need for additional care is one of the primary
reasons we sold in Florida. Both my mother and Mrs.E's mother and father
are getting up there in age and have physical handicaps that require more
and more assistance from the family. The only problem is that they all live
up north and, at least in the case of her parents, would never even consider
packing up and moving.

Got to admit though. The weather is finally starting to get tolerable up
here.

RCE

On 26 May 2006 04:24:51 -0700, "basskisser"
wrote:


Got to agree with you about Maurice's! It's really interesting to study
BBQ by locality. Here in Atlanta, if you go to a REAL BBQ joint, you'll
notice a difference on whether you are east of Atlanta, or west.
Farther toward S.C. you get, the more mustard in the sauce. West, you
are in Alabama style sauces which are tomato based and thicker than
real Georgia types of sauces. Here it has to be Brunswick stew with our
BBQ.

My wife's parents are from a small town in south GA, and every time
they cook a pig, they make a big pot of Brunswick stew. It's great
over rice or bread, with a few dashes of tabasco on it. Their
home-made BBQ sauce is mostly tabasco and black pepper with some other
stuff. Sort of thin, not sweet, with a good "bite".

On Fri, 26 May 2006 14:07:59 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

Got to admit though. The weather is finally starting to get tolerable up
here.

And when it is nice, both days, it's REALLY nice. Wish we were headed
for Cape Cod and the islands right now... :-)

My wife's parents moved to Florida before us so we have the reverse
issue.

On 26 May 2006 04:39:23 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:


JimH wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it out
on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to
go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be Sunday
but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that
same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am cooking).
;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth for
your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you sprayed
onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a problem.
I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.

A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers of
placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm


Good information.

I have never run into long term problems because of sinking PT posts
directly into the ground and encasing them with concrete.

I wonder how long those galvanized brackets hold up? ;-)

Virtually forever. I've seen galvanized brackets 30 years old still
working fine. My posts that are encased in concrete are beginning to
show signs of rot. PT posts encased in concrete also violates most
codes. Also, if the post is sitting on the ground, then concrete poured
around it, the wood shrinks and swells so that the concrete isn't
really gripping (skin friction = 0), and the post's contact area with
the ground is the only portion resisting axial load. That isn't much on
a fence, but it is on a deck!
Again, I do it for fences, but not for decks. That doesn't make it
acceptable practice!!

For decks, the code in this county requires concrete footings with a
galvanized bracket. For fences, there are no mandated requirements. I put
sackcrete in the hole for the corner posts and gate posts, and I'll let the
new owners worry about replacing them.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************