"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 May 2006 14:07:59 -0400, "RCE" wrote:

Got to admit though. The weather is finally starting to get tolerable up
here.

And when it is nice, both days, it's REALLY nice. Wish we were headed
for Cape Cod and the islands right now... :-)

My wife's parents moved to Florida before us so we have the reverse
issue.


My mother would move in a flash. She spent some time with us in Florida and
last winter she stayed with her younger sister in Archer for 3 months last
winter. Ever been to Archer? There's nothing there.

My wife's parents are old school Italians. They've lived in the same house
for over 50 years now, after moving once from Somerville to the suburbs back
in the late 50's. Their house is their castle and wouldn't leave for
anything.

RCE

basskisser wrote:
Don White wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:

basskisser wrote:


JimH wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...


JimH wrote:


The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it
out on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be
Sunday but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am
cooking). ;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth
for your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you
sprayed onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a
problem. I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.


A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers
of placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm


I don't care what those sites say, Don. It's NOT accepted practice and
actually violates most codes. It is COMMON practice, I fully realize,
and I do it sometimes myself. My front fence is done that way, and has
been for 11 years. It is showing some signs of rot though. My deck
around my pool, however, is done properly, that is pour a pier
(Sonotube), and float in a Simpson post anchor, which holds the post
off of the concrete like this:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...A-ABE-ABU.html


That base requires an anchor bolt in the concrete. Here is one for an
embedded application:

http://www.strongtie.com/products/co...rs/PB-PBS.html

The non-embedded variety allows for minor corrections in any direction.

Dan

basskisser wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:

basskisser wrote:


JimH wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...


JimH wrote:


The weather looks great for us this Memorial Day weekend and we may
take
the boat out Saturday and Monday. I also want to give my son some
first
hand experience to see how stupid some folks can be on the water and
figure this will be a great opportunity for it. I will be at the
helm as
I know how crazy it will probably be.

He received his boating safety class certification over the winter by
attending the Power Squadron classes and I want to give him some on
water time fine tuning instructions before I allow him to take it out
on
his own. I also plan to take him out (just him and me) next week to
go
over docking and key features of the boat he needs to know.

The nicest day of the weekend (weather wise) is expected to be Sunday
but
we will be happy being away from the boat that day...........that
same
son of mine is graduating from High School that day and my daughter
will
be home for the ceremony and celebratory dinner (that I am cooking).
;-)

So what are your plans?

Since Sunday should be sunny (maybe), I'll be busy building a pressure
treated fence along the east side of my backyard...where my garage was
until a couple of weeks ago. This week it's either raining or
threatening
to rain...tough trying to set 4" x 4" posts in concrete.

If the ground is wet just dig out the hole to the appropriate depth for
your
area, widen out the hole base to form a footer, fill it with 2" of
gravel,
set the post inside of it and pour in the dry quick set concrete.
Use a
pole to probe the concrete mix to make sure there are no voids. Now
sprinkle with water. The concrete mix will wick the water you sprayed
onto
it and most especially from the cavity walls and will
set.................and set firm

I used this method for years in this northern climate when setting
posts for
fences, decks and basketball posts and have never run into a problem.
I do,
however, make sure my holes are set deep enough for my winter climate.


Contrary to popular belief, you shouldn't encase PT lumber in concrete.
You should instead pour a footing/pier (NOT "footer") then use a
Simpson or equal post bracket that get's the PT off of the concrete.
Concrete always holds moisture, so exposes the PT lumber to rot.
This being said, I do it the way you've mentioned, and my fence has
been in place 11 years, not rotted yet. A good trick though, is to use
put a couple of 16d nails in the bottom of the post but don't drive
them home, leaving about half the nail exposed. This will prevent
uplift after the concrete sets.


A home inspector will highlight and emphasize the problems of placing PT
wood directly into concrete. It will rot out substantially faster than
if the wood is attached correctly to a footing.

Every home improvement show I have watched has highlighted the dangers of
placing PT directly into the dirt of concrete.


This site seems to think PT lumber & concrete can work together.
http://wilwaylumber.com/howto/howto082.htm
same with this one..
http://ak.essortment.com/fencepostinsta_nfm.htm
and another..
http://www.theworkshop.net/Tips/htm/...howtobuild.htm


Good information.

I have never run into long term problems because of sinking PT posts
directly into the ground and encasing them with concrete.

I wonder how long those galvanized brackets hold up? ;-)


Virtually forever. I've seen galvanized brackets 30 years old still
working fine. My posts that are encased in concrete are beginning to
show signs of rot. PT posts encased in concrete also violates most
codes. Also, if the post is sitting on the ground, then concrete poured
around it, the wood shrinks and swells so that the concrete isn't
really gripping (skin friction = 0), and the post's contact area with
the ground is the only portion resisting axial load. That isn't much on
a fence, but it is on a deck!
Again, I do it for fences, but not for decks. That doesn't make it
acceptable practice!!


That used to be true. A few years ago, treated lumber changed from CCA
to ACQ for environmental reasons. ACQ is tough on steel even if it is
lightly galvanized. In order to get the same, long term, performance
you will have to spend the extra bucks and go with a product with more
zinc or stainless steel. Since you are looking at Simpson, they have
their "ZMax" for ACQ applications.

I lost 285' of shadowbox fence in last year's hurricane and have had to
look at that damn orange temporary fence for several months now. Since
I'm "in the business" the new fence will have all stainless steel
fasteners. As to the the concrete debate, I have talked to several
people and they recommend applying a light coat of roofing cement to the
portion that will be in the concrete. Construction starts tomorrow!

Dan