Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...

gas-guzzling self-indulgent playtoy boat.

A 14 foot boat with a 15 hp 4-stroke motor, which goes through 20
gallons of fuel per year???

You need a truck to tow that? Just put training wheels on in and pedal it
to the lake.

True to form....at least you're consistently obnoxious.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

I guess that's why every single one of your assertions about
the oil/energy situation has been proven wrong


Fred Dehl wrote:
Not one statement I've made in this thread has been false.


Pretty much all your statements are not only false but
offensively so.

For example, you posted: "people who don't enjoy the premium
of driving a less-efficient vehicle are stupid."

Originally I thought you were trying to be funny- a
charicature of the bonehead caveman neo-conservative. Then I
realized that you really are not only misinformed, but
arrogantly so, and you seem to be mad at the world. Maybe
because you were mistreated as a child?


I guess that is why he has answered a perfectly reasonable
question, which you continue to dodge, even though he asked
you first


His question is not relevant to the topic.

And yu statements are relevant?

Nonetheless, Doung Kanter answered the question even though
he asked you first, now you continue to dodge.

Why? Are you ashamed of your lowly job? You've already
insulted Doug over his profession, now you can't take the
heat yourself, can you?

And you never did answer my question. You are fat & bald,
aren't you Fred? How's your blood pressure?


... It's an immature and desperate
attempt to divert attention from his idiocy.


That you think his statements are "idiocy" says more about
you than about him. So far, you are the one who has been
wrong pretty much across the board.

For another example, do you really expect oil prices do drop
.... and stay low... compared to today's market prices?

Do you really think that massive exploration & drilling new
wells is the answer to diminishing oil supplies? What do you
think oil companies have been doing for the past 85 years?
What do you think of Vice President Cheney's statements to
the effect that there are no significant new reserves to be
discovered?

In other words, all your arrogantly ignorant bluster is just
an attempt to blame liberals for an inherent problem which
was not only long forseen but deliberately made worse... for
profit... by leaders that you loudly approve of.

Who's been fooled?



In other words, you don't have a boat yourself, do you Fred?


Yes I do. But I'm not a pompous hypocrite about it.

???

What is being a "pompous hypocrit" about having a boat? This
is a boating discussion group Fred.

You've accused Doug Kanter of having a "gas-guzzler" boat
even though you said yourself that this is an insulting
term. You deliberately insult others and then scream & whine
when your nose is rubbed in your own stupidity.

Is your boat a sailboat, Fred?

DSK

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley
compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd
say "get a boat."

Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers.

That's why I asked you what kind of work you do.

What do you do? Put up or shut up.


I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn.

I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Clue- oil is non-renewable. No matter how much exploration is done, we
will run out eventually.


Bert Robbins wrote:
When we, everyone on the entire planet, start to really run out of oil we
will be forced to find other means of producing energy and goods from
oil.

Hello? Hello?

I'm here now. I have to work during the day and can't sit around and post on
USENET like Dougie K and Bassie.

There are already other means of producing energy. In fact, our President
gave a speech earlier this year on the wisdom of expanding them.

What means are there for producing energy for automobiles and trucks that
don't require an extension cord? And, are those means as efficient and cost
effective as oil?

And nobody is being "forced" to do anything about oil or alternatives.
It's a matter of cost & profitability. Oil has been very cheap for a long
time... that is changing as oil supply declines and demand goes up.

The supply is not declining, OPEC can increase the supply at will but, the
demand is increasing. The known "reserves" are described as declining.



But, until that time we will continue to drill, pump and burn oil.

Are you under the impression that there will be oodles & oodles of oil,
until one morning in the distant future, there will suddenly be none?

I thought that was your position. I believe that we are 100 years away from
running out of oil. But, your ilk are of the consensus that we will be
running out of oil in a couple of years.

That's not the way it works. As with many other things in nature, the
amount of oil which can be pumped out of the ground follows a bell curve.

No, the current methods of pumping oil out of the ground may follow a bell
curve. Next year there may be a technological advance that will allow us to
pump oil out of wells that are not cost effective to continue pumping today.

Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me.
Google "Hubbert Peak" and see.

One man opinion.

... There is not economic incentive to switch away from oil, there is
only an emotional desire on the part of some.


You're disagreeing with President Bush's speech?

President Bush and I disagree on many issues. What make this issue special?

The economic incentives are clear
1- avoid pollution

If we reduce our use of oil it will just mean that there is more oil for
China and India.

2- make profits on other sources of energy

I don't understand what you are saying? An economic incentive is clear
because we can make profits form other sources of energy?

What sources of energy are you talking about?

3- avoid economic dislocation & disruption as oil becomes

Huh, there is an economic incentive to avoid economic dislocation and
disruption as oil becomes what?



A very smart scientist... who made a lot of money in the oil business...
named King Hubbert worked out the math of global oil supply a long time
ago.


Really? I thought that the supply of oil was going to run out in 30
years,

Do you know exactly what day? I will want to sell short that morning,
thanks.

No, your side of this issue wouldn't tell us the exact day.

with the clock startign to click in the late 1970's.

The U.S. (which used to be an oil exporter) hit it's oil peak in the
1970s, which was accurately predicted by Dr. Hubbert in the 1940s. The
global oil supply/demand situation is a bit more complex. However, it
seems likely that Hubbert's math was still pretty good.

We hit what oil peak in the 1970's?

Pretty good at what? Has technology improved in the last 60 years? Myabe
someone should do another study.

Now, bonus question: do you suppose that with the ramping up of China and
the other Pacific Rim economies, that world oil demand is higher or lower
than Hubbert plotted from a vantage point of approx 50 years ago?

What does it matter? According to you we will just run out sooner. Would you
say 30 years from now is about right?

Of course, you haven't liked any of the FACTS introduced into this thread
so far, and you won't like these FACTS either because they prove you're
wrong.


Ice age. Global warming. What's next.

I thought you knew?

You reactionary liberals are the best at fear mongering. What is the next
great potential global demise we face?


One thing is for sure, the retardo-fascists will be screaming that it's
all the fault of liberals. And ignoring any facts they stumble over.

If you want to blame yourselfs that is ok with me.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Don White wrote:


You got a 2001 Forrester?


As of a couple of hours ago, nope.
The Mrs. said she was noticing too many $$ going into the boat overhaul
rather than into her transportation, so the Forester is only a memory
and we're (she's) driving something new.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Hello? Hello?


Bert Robbins wrote:
I'm here now.

In spirit? Is the light on?



There are already other means of producing energy. In fact, our President
gave a speech earlier this year on the wisdom of expanding them.


What means are there for producing energy for automobiles and trucks that
don't require an extension cord? And, are those means as efficient and cost
effective as oil?


Sure, many. People have been running cars on methane, coal
gas, and such, for decades... in fact, that's how Jacque
Cousteau invented the aqualung: he adapted a pressure
regulator commonly used on cars.

As for cost effective... you can get methane for free. Hard
to beat that.



And nobody is being "forced" to do anything about oil or alternatives.
It's a matter of cost & profitability. Oil has been very cheap for a long
time... that is changing as oil supply declines and demand goes up.


The supply is not declining, OPEC can increase the supply at will

Actually, they can increase up to the limit of reserve
capacity... which is decreasing every day.


Are you under the impression that there will be oodles & oodles of oil,
until one morning in the distant future, there will suddenly be none?


I thought that was your position.

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

... I believe that we are 100 years away from
running out of oil.

Wrong. We will probably NEVER "run out" of oil. However, we
will get far enough out on the bell curve that the oil
supplies will get smaller & more expensive... to the point
where everything depending on oil comes to a halt.




... But, your ilk are of the consensus that we will be
running out of oil in a couple of years.


Who exactly is "my ilk" again?

You seem to be determined to make as many wrong statements
as possible.


That's not the way it works. As with many other things in nature, the
amount of oil which can be pumped out of the ground follows a bell curve.


No, the current methods of pumping oil out of the ground may follow a bell
curve.

Yep.
And so do all possible methods of pumping oil out of the ground.

... Next year there may be a technological advance that will allow us to
pump oil out of wells that are not cost effective to continue pumping today.


That may be true, but the supply will still follow a bell
curve. Increasing technology shifts the curve but does not
change the nature of the relationships.



Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me.
Google "Hubbert Peak" and see.


One man opinion.


Oh yeah, like the law of gravity is one man's opinion.



President Bush and I disagree on many issues

Then why did you vote for him? Are you a self-destructive fool?




If we reduce our use of oil it will just mean that there is more oil for
China and India.


That's a great attitude... "let's waste more of it first!"

How about thinking a little bit- if we move to renewable &
cleaner energy sources, then we'll be in a commanding
position while they are stuck with diminishing & costly oil
supplies.

Do you have to be a dog in the manger, or can you think
constructively?



2- make profits on other sources of energy


I don't understand what you are saying? An economic incentive is clear
because we can make profits form other sources of energy?

What sources of energy are you talking about?


Many.
What part of "make profits" did you not understand? Are you
a Communist?




3- avoid economic dislocation & disruption as oil becomes


Huh, there is an economic incentive to avoid economic dislocation and
disruption as oil becomes what?


Sorry, typo. But it would seem obvious, since what we are
talking about is decreasing oil reserves.




Really? I thought that the supply of oil was going to run out in 30
years,

Do you know exactly what day? I will want to sell short that morning,
thanks.


No, your side of this issue wouldn't tell us the exact day.


Funny thing, this issue doesn't really have sides. It's not
like our President is going to save up a special oil supply
just for the Bush-Cheney Cheerleaders. When we run low on
oil, we *all* run low.



The U.S. (which used to be an oil exporter) hit it's oil peak in the
1970s, which was accurately predicted by Dr. Hubbert in the 1940s. The
global oil supply/demand situation is a bit more complex. However, it
seems likely that Hubbert's math was still pretty good.


We hit what oil peak in the 1970's?


(talking slowly) In the 1970s, U.S. oil production peaked.
That means the amount of oil pumped out of the ground
increased intil that time, and afterward decreased.


Pretty good at what? Has technology improved in the last 60 years? Myabe
someone should do another study.


Hello? Hello? Is there anything other than a dial tone at
the other end?

What do you think the oil companies have been doing for the
past 60 years?



Now, bonus question: do you suppose that with the ramping up of China and
the other Pacific Rim economies, that world oil demand is higher or lower
than Hubbert plotted from a vantage point of approx 50 years ago?


What does it matter? According to you we will just run out sooner. Would you
say 30 years from now is about right?


I don't know when the oil supply will get scanty enough to
be considered to have "run out." You don't really learn
much, do you? Have you understood anything at all about this
discussion so far? Who has said that oil will "run out"?

Frankly, I don't have much faith in predicting these kinds
of things... the data is too uncertain and the biggest
variable is human behavior, which is a total wild card. I
expect the petro-fueled economy to go on for at least
another ten years, but not for fifty. In ten years, the
price for a barrel of crude oil might be $300, it might be
$30,000.

But, considering that there is definitely a finite amount of
oil in the ground, we *will* get to a point where it is too
scarce & expensive to fuel our civilization. Therefor, we
either need a different source of energy or we just give up
on civilization. Take your pick.




You reactionary liberals are the best at fear mongering.

I'm a "reactionary liberal" now? Gee, last week I was a
moonbat. Are you neo-cons good at anything other than
anme-calling?

DSK

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley
compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd
say "get a boat."

Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers.

That's why I asked you what kind of work you do.

What do you do? Put up or shut up.


I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn.

I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.




Impossible. I don't believe it.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote
I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.


Doug Kanter wrote:
Impossible. I don't believe it.


Why is it impossible? He's a "Principal Development
Engineer" in the same way that the garbage collector is a
"Sanitation Engineer."

Everybody's an engineer if they want to claim the title, but
that doesn't mean they can actually drive a train.

DSK

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley
compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd
say "get a boat."
Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers.
That's why I asked you what kind of work you do.
What do you do? Put up or shut up.

I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn.
I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.




Impossible. I don't believe it.


Doug,
This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even
sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal
info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal
disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue.

--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote
I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.


Doug Kanter wrote:
Impossible. I don't believe it.

Why is it impossible? He's a "Principal Development Engineer" in the same
way that the garbage collector is a "Sanitation Engineer."

Everybody's an engineer if they want to claim the title, but that doesn't
mean they can actually drive a train.

DSK


I don't believe it could be involved in any way with anything requiring even
the simplest logic.