Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Doug Kanter wrote:


Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues are
such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling well? Are
the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

Here's some perspective for you;

My wife is ready to replace her Subaru. We started shopping a couple of
months ago and looked initially at the Mercedes M Class. When I
discovered that nearly all current owners are reporting a lot of
mechanical problems, we expanded the search. Really liked the Toyota
Highlander, but made the mistake of driving the hybrid. The performance
of the hybrid kicks the stuffing out of the standard V6. There is no
comparison.

People compare the mpg of the hybrid with the standard V6 and wonder,
"why would anybody pay all that much extra just to get (in real life) a
couple of more miles per gallon?" Probably nobody would. However, if
you compare the mpg to a V8 model and realize that the hybrid offers V8
performance, (not V6 performance), with fuel economy more typical of a
large displacement 4-cylinder it makes some sense.

Toyota licenses the hybrid technology to Ford, who uses it in the
Escape and the Mercury Mariner. We drove both, and I wouldn't buy
either one. Toyota only sells the 4-cylinder version to Ford, and the
4-cylinder version is very underpowered. With the 4-banger, you really
do get about the same mpg as with the gas engine and if anything the
4-banger Escapes and Mariners are *less* peppy than the gas
counterparts.

Then for about 20% more than a Highlander you can buy a Lexus, which
will probably be our final choice. The Lexus makes the Toyota look
crude by comparison. We'd own one already except there's no rush to own
a vehicle that's in short supply and where the sticker price is
absolutely non negotiable. I almost don't know how to buy a car where
you can't "deal". The Lexus guy wanted to close me and I asked him,
"Can you give me a reason to buy now?" He was pretty sharp, replying
with, "Yeah, you get to own a Lexus." :-)

(One consideration in favor of delayed timing is the "monorail tax"
drops off of our car tabs by late summer this year. Will make about a
$700 difference in the first year license cost of a vehicle in that
price range. Have to weigh that against continuing depreciation of the
present 5 year old Subaru.........)

So there's some insight into why people would consider buying hybrids.
On a fuel economy basis, don't compare to the V6 gas- compare to the V8
gas that delivers equivalent performance.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

I think you're assuming buyers are always stupid. What is SUV buyers
were asked this question: "If you can have every single feature and
benefit you asked for, but get 23mpg instead of 14mpg, would that
interest you?" How do you suppose some buyers would react to that?

At $2.50 a gallon, it will cost $5,434 in gas to drive the 23mpg vehicle
50,000 miles. It will cost $8,928 to drive the 17mpg vehicle the same.
That's a savings of less than $3,500, far less than the premium for the
privilege of driving the higher-mpg vehicle.

So, yes, the people who are buying hybrids to "save money on gas" ARE
stupid.

Do you think some people might want to save gas just for the hell of it? I
know that's a real stretch for you, but try anyway.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:


Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues
are
such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling well?
Are
the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

Here's some perspective for you;

My wife is ready to replace her Subaru. We started shopping a couple of
months ago and looked initially at the Mercedes M Class. When I
discovered that nearly all current owners are reporting a lot of
mechanical problems, we expanded the search. Really liked the Toyota
Highlander, but made the mistake of driving the hybrid. The performance
of the hybrid kicks the stuffing out of the standard V6. There is no
comparison.

That good???

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Fred Dehl" wrote:
At $2.50 a gallon, it will cost $5,434 in gas to drive the 23mpg vehicle
50,000 miles. It will cost $8,928 to drive the 17mpg vehicle the same.
That's a savings of less than $3,500, far less than the premium for the
privilege of driving the higher-mpg vehicle.

So, yes, the people who are buying hybrids to "save money on gas" ARE
stupid.


Not as stupid as assuming that all people always have the
same priorities & get the same enjoyment out of "the
privilege of driving" a klunky gas guzzler.

Doug Kanter wrote:
Do you think some people might want to save gas just for the hell of it? I
know that's a real stretch for you, but try anyway.


Fred obviously thinks that the price of gas will stay where
it is now, forever. It can't possibly go up enough to change
anybody's priorities, right?

DSK

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Fred obviously thinks that the price of gas will stay where
it is now, forever. It can't possibly go up enough to change
anybody's priorities, right?

I'm dealing with the reality of the present rather than the hysterical
fearmongering of the future. 35 years ago you freaks were predicting an
Ice Age; 25 years ago it was worldwide famine. Now you're ignoring
sunspots and other actual causes of climate change (did you know the
temperature of Mars is increasing too - how many Martians drive SUVs?).
You need to significantly improve your track record before anyone will
take another of your Chicken Little prognostications seriously.

When gas was $1.80, what were you saying when there were predictions of
$2.50?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Fred obviously thinks that the price of gas will stay where
it is now, forever. It can't possibly go up enough to change
anybody's priorities, right?

I'm dealing with the reality of the present rather than the hysterical
fearmongering of the future. 35 years ago you freaks were predicting an
Ice Age; 25 years ago it was worldwide famine. Now you're ignoring
sunspots and other actual causes of climate change (did you know the
temperature of Mars is increasing too - how many Martians drive SUVs?).
You need to significantly improve your track record before anyone will
take another of your Chicken Little prognostications seriously.

When gas was $1.80, what were you saying when there were predictions of
$2.50?


Nothing. It's beyond my control.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

I think you're assuming buyers are always stupid. What is SUV buyers
were asked this question: "If you can have every single feature and
benefit you asked for, but get 23mpg instead of 14mpg, would that
interest you?" How do you suppose some buyers would react to that?

At $2.50 a gallon, it will cost $5,434 in gas to drive the 23mpg
vehicle 50,000 miles. It will cost $8,928 to drive the 17mpg vehicle
the same. That's a savings of less than $3,500, far less than the
premium for the privilege of driving the higher-mpg vehicle.

So, yes, the people who are buying hybrids to "save money on gas" ARE
stupid.

Do you think some people might want to save gas just for the hell of
it?

No. Remember John "my family owns an SUV, not me - honest" Kerry?

Sorry, but you're wrong about that.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

I think you're assuming buyers are always stupid. What is SUV buyers
were asked this question: "If you can have every single feature and
benefit you asked for, but get 23mpg instead of 14mpg, would that
interest you?" How do you suppose some buyers would react to that?

At $2.50 a gallon, it will cost $5,434 in gas to drive the 23mpg
vehicle 50,000 miles. It will cost $8,928 to drive the 17mpg vehicle
the same. That's a savings of less than $3,500, far less than the
premium for the privilege of driving the higher-mpg vehicle.

So, yes, the people who are buying hybrids to "save money on gas" ARE
stupid.

Do you think some people might want to save gas just for the hell of
it?

No. Remember John "my family owns an SUV, not me - honest" Kerry?

Sorry, but you're wrong about that.

John Kerry's family doesn't own an SUV?

No idea. Doesn't matter. You're wrong about the fact that people won't buy
certain products just because they have less impact on resources. You can't
imagine this.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Fred Dehl wrote:
I'm dealing with the reality of the present rather than the hysterical
fearmongering of the future.

Umm, no.

You'e calling other people stupid because they don't agree
with your opinions.

When any facts are brought up, you call more names.

Congratulations on your perfect track record.

DSK