Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Hey, let the price of gasoline get up around ten bucks a
gallon, and electric bills into solid five figures, and
people will be less concerned about the view.

Funny thing, that will drive up the desirability... and thus
the price... of places that still have some unspoiled nature.

It's like a merry-go-round.


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
So true, but it's very curious that, to me at least, we can come up
with something like a viable alternative to take the Vineyard off the
grid and everybody and their uncle who has a "view" says nope
including the very politicians who are ****ing and moaning about
energy policy.

It just seems counter-productive to me and very much in the vein of do
as I say, not as I do.


It's an extreme case of NIMBY. But it may be that their
wallets will eventually dictate otherwise (when the island
becomes uninhabitable for anybody who can't afford a $10k
electric bill); the other option is that the island will
become even more a preserve for the ultra-wealthy than it
already is. But then, where are their servants going to live?

To some extent, I can see the logic... property there is
*very* valuable and "the view" is part of what makes it so.
Will lower energy costs (and let's not forget about higher
reliability) make up for the drop in property values?




I get along with everybody. in the neighborhood.


Obviously you don't get along as well as all that, or your
neighbors would have shrugged and said "Gonna put up a
windmill to generate electricity? Cool."


And I pretty much get along with everybody here - except for you and I
suspect that is probably becasue we have two differing views of the
world.


Actually there are a number of people you seem to have
disagreements with... mostly liberals... but I seem to
invoke your ire to larger degree (and I take it as a
compliment that the facts & logic I present are actually
shifting your world view.... very very slightly).





The nation's leaders have been looking backwards, and mostly
investing in convincing as many people as they can that
"alternative energy" is for weirdos. Until the last couple
of months, that is. Suddenly they have stolen Al Gore's
energy playbook (although they still scream that Democrats
have no ideas).


I disagree, but that's for another time.


Go ahead, I'm listening.
Do you disagree that President Bush's ideas on a progressive
energy policy came largely from Al Gore's speeches from
1999? That is not just my opinion, it has been stated by
many conservatives, neo- and otherwise... stated
vociferously in some cases!

Do you disagree that the Bush-Cheney Administration has been
driving America backwards with regard to energy policy? That
seems to be indicated not only by President Bush's
about-face speech, but also by several statements made by
Vice President Cheney at several points in his career.
Practically his first utterances as CEO of Halliburton were
on the nature of geo-political shifts due to the necessity
of adapting policy to the realities of post-peak oil supply.

In other words, they not only have been driving backwards,
they've been doing it on purpose.

Go ahead and refute that if you can, I'd like to see it. In
fact, I'd like to see more good things about the Bush-Cheney
Administration, since it makes me unhappy to think that they
are not only a disaster but a deliberate one. However,
around election time, when I asked this question, all I got
was insults & abuse. At times, I get cynical enough to think
that *nobody* actually likes Bush & Cheney, or thinks that
they are doing a good job... they just support them because
1- in the case of many columnists & commentators, because
they're paid to and 2- because it's just so much fun to hate
hate hate libby-rulls.






There are guys out there making bio-diesel. Just gotta find
one in your area...


Nope. Not a one that I don't have to travel 150 miles round trip to
get to. Kinda counter productive.

I have thought of getting into the business myself, but I'm not at all
sure I could break even just selling the fuel.


At this point, there seem to be other motives than profit
and the business model seems to include free raw materials
(and as you say, it's better for the restaurants to give it
away than to pay to dispose of it). Looks to me like selling
to the public at-large is a money loser, at this point. But
for $8/gal? And that price level is coming!

I've read a lot of stuff about people making biodiesel. most
seem to be into it for their own use or for a co-op of small
businesses that have committed to it. But it's real, it
works, there is evidence that it's better for your engine!

DSK

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley
compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd
say "get a boat."

Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers.

That's why I asked you what kind of work you do.

What do you do? Put up or shut up.


I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn.

I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.




Impossible. I don't believe it.

Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:25:17 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me. Google "Hubbert Peak" and
see.

One man opinion.

You just don't get it. The Hubbert Curve is not an opinion, it is
science. US continental production did peak in 1971-72. That is a fact.
Hubbert predicted it would peak between 1965-1970. He also predicted
world production would peak in 2000. As it takes several years for a true
peak to become apparent, it is not now known if he was accurate, but there
are many that believe the peak was in 2004. Whenever the true peak
occurs know that, at that time, 1/2 the world's oil supplies will be gone.
Also know that the world will never run out of oil, it will run out of
economically obtainable oil, and I don't mean expensive. If it takes
more oil to find, transport, and process, than is recovered, the field is
abandoned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak

Science is consensus that is often proved to have been "wrong" when arriving
at the next consensus.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:40:39 +0000, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


At this point, I don't think anybody truly knows what is or isn't true
about oil.

Well, one thing we do know, it's a finite resource. There is no doubting
that. The argument isn't if world oil will peak, it's when. Most of us
consider oil only as something to fuel our vehicles. However, it's other
uses, medicines, plastics, etc., might prove more irreplaceable in the
long run. To me, it seems downright foolhardy to race to the precipice,
when we don't know when that precipice will occur. The truth is, oil will
not run out in our lifetimes, but what of our children's lifetimes?

The following quote may not be completely accurate, but it is food for
thought.

"It has often been said that, if the human species fails to make a go of
it here on Earth, some other species will take over the running. In the
sense of developing high intelligence this is not correct. We have, or
soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as
this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic
ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from
primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair.
If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is
concerned. The same will be true of other planetary systems. On each of
them there will be one chance, and one chance only." (Hoyle, 1964)

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:27:44 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

Where does the ethanol come from? Brazil.

So some faceless EPA type convinced somebody to use ethanol, the
politicans bought into it because it looks good to farmers and we buy
it from Brazil.

It's actually worse than that. Supposedly the net energy cost of
producing ethanol is greater than the energy delivered in combustion,
taking into account fertilizer production, planting, harvesting,
distribution, etc.

Oops, there goes that idea.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:48:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak

Science is consensus that is often proved to have been "wrong" when
arriving at the next consensus.

In your world, is it flat?

What is science other than observation and consensus on that observation?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:59:09 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:42:53 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:32:59 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:25:02 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley
compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd
say "get a boat."
Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers.
That's why I asked you what kind of work you do.
What do you do? Put up or shut up.

I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn.
I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.




Impossible. I don't believe it.


Doug,
This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even
sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal
info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal
disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue.

I'll bet few people lie about teaching math.

On the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog. :)

Woof. That reminds me, I've gotta go get some of the matted hair off the
bearded collie. Anyone want a bearded collie? They're about as stupid a dog
as you could ever hope to find!

It happens with Border's too. Amazing how much hair herding dogs
have.

From what I've heard, Border Collies are smart enough to brush their own
hair!

I ended up cutting the mats out. The dog seems to realize the value of
being still when I'm working on it with a pair of sharp scissors in hand.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:00:56 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:27:44 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

Where does the ethanol come from? Brazil.

So some faceless EPA type convinced somebody to use ethanol, the
politicans bought into it because it looks good to farmers and we buy
it from Brazil.

It's actually worse than that. Supposedly the net energy cost of
producing ethanol is greater than the energy delivered in combustion,
taking into account fertilizer production, planting, harvesting,
distribution, etc.

Oops, there goes that idea.


If a farmer raises corn, he sells the corn and makes a profit (albeit not
much). If he then cuts the stalks for ethanol use, hasn't he already
recouped the cost of the fertilizer and planting of the corn?

A little enlightenment here would be appreciated.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Bert Robbins wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley
compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd
say "get a boat."
Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers.
That's why I asked you what kind of work you do.
What do you do? Put up or shut up.

I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn.
I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.



Impossible. I don't believe it.

Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid.


Please post a scan of your paycheck stub, your 2005 Income Tax, your
college degree and your drivers license, your fingerprints and a retina
scan all verified by 3 independent Notary Publics. If you refuse to do
this we all know you are making this up.

--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:42:53 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:32:59 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:25:02 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote in
:

Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley
compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd
say "get a boat."
Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers.
That's why I asked you what kind of work you do.
What do you do? Put up or shut up.
I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn.
I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software
vendor.



Impossible. I don't believe it.


Doug,
This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even
sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal
info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal
disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue.
I'll bet few people lie about teaching math.
On the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog. :)
Woof. That reminds me, I've gotta go get some of the matted hair off the
bearded collie. Anyone want a bearded collie? They're about as stupid a dog
as you could ever hope to find!

It happens with Border's too. Amazing how much hair herding dogs
have.
Both you and JohnH need to check out the Furmingator. Great tool to get
rid of the undercoat, which is what normally mats up.

--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."