"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
I don't buy that. History has shown that some of the most brilliant
people
were very poor speakers.

Name two.


1) James Madison
2) Harry Truman
3) William H. Taft
4) Thomas Jefferson

IMHO you're assuming this as a corollary to a very obvious fact, that
some of the best, most polished, and plausible speakers are not as smart
as they sound.

Sometimes that's true, and sometimes not.




I think the only way to know is to spend time with a person talking
one-on-one on a personal level. That's why Bush is so effective when
he's
meeting with the other World leaders in person.

You mean, effective at making other world leaders mistrust & dislike him?


He seems to have done a pretty good job schmoozing several World leaders
recently...as evidenced by the unanimous UN resolution which Bush was
seeking that was passed yesterday.



BTW thanks for letting me make this point. Good work, comrade!


You're welcome.

If you were a poker player you'd be dropping your cards on the floor.

Only intentionally...and only a few of them...so that you'd *think* you
were getting a good look at my entire hand.

NOYB wrote:
1) James Madison
2) Harry Truman
3) William H. Taft
4) Thomas Jefferson

The only one on this list who was "brilliant" is Jefferson. And I've
never read that he was a poor speaker, but rather the contrary. Truman
was definitely NOT a poor speaker, else why would his "whistle stop"
campaign tour produce such good results?

Taft? You gotta be kidding. I have no doubt he was an intelligent man,
but "one of the most brilliant"??? And what is the evidence that he was
a notably poor speaker?

Madison could be considered brilliant if he weren't standing in the same
room with either Jefferson or Franklin (or for that matter, Hamilton, or
for that matter, Burr). But again, whence comes any intimation that he
was a poor speaker?

Sorry, Nobby, no cigar. Not even close.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
1) James Madison
2) Harry Truman
3) William H. Taft
4) Thomas Jefferson

The only one on this list who was "brilliant" is Jefferson. And I've
never read that he was a poor speaker, but rather the contrary.

Ironically, the man you list as the most brilliant on my list, has the
greatest number of references
to his poor speaking ability:

"A poor speaker, Jefferson's written work impressed the Assembly, despite
some reservations."
http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles...jeffadams.html

"Jefferson was a poor speaker, but his literary talents made him a highly
valued member of committees when resolutions and other public papers were
drafted. "
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...Jefferson.html

"Historian Carl Becker once speculated that that was one reason Jefferson
was such a poor speaker..."
http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/...s/mckenna.html

I'd keep going, but google returned almost 200 hits with "poor speaker" and
"Thomas Jefferson" in the search engine.



Truman
was definitely NOT a poor speaker, else why would his "whistle stop"
campaign tour produce such good results?

Wrong again.

"In contrast to FDR, Harry Truman never managed to improve his poor speaking
ability. He relied on teleprompters and had difficulty navigating the text
of a prepared speech. Truman fared better when speaking extemporaneously,
but his generally flawed communication consigned him to low public approval
rating (20-30 percent) for a significant portion of his presidential
career."
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/leadershi...residents.html



Taft? You gotta be kidding. I have no doubt he was an intelligent man,
but "one of the most brilliant"??? And what is the evidence that he was
a notably poor speaker?

Since you don't consider him a brilliant man, we needn't address him.


Madison could be considered brilliant if he weren't standing in the same
room with either Jefferson or Franklin (or for that matter, Hamilton, or
for that matter, Burr).

Are you kidding?

"his political achievements and intellectual legacy are monumental. Revered
as the "Father of the Constitution," Madison was also architect of the
"Virginia plan"; one of the two principal authors of The Federalist; leader
of the inaugural House of Representatives; reluctant champion of the Bill of
Rights; cofounder of the Republican Party, Washington's ghostwriter;
Jefferson's Secretary of State; and president and commander-in-chief during
America's second war of Independence. "
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts


But again, whence comes any intimation that he
was a poor speaker?

Whence?

"Hardly an imposing figure, Madison was barely five-feet-six-inches tall,
pale complected, a poor speaker"
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts








Sorry, Nobby, no cigar. Not even close.

Then you're blind...or ignorant...or just plain being an ass.

"NOYB" wrote in message ...
"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
1) James Madison
2) Harry Truman
3) William H. Taft
4) Thomas Jefferson

The only one on this list who was "brilliant" is Jefferson. And I've
never read that he was a poor speaker, but rather the contrary.

Ironically, the man you list as the most brilliant on my list, has the
greatest number of references
to his poor speaking ability:

"A poor speaker, Jefferson's written work impressed the Assembly, despite
some reservations."
http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles...jeffadams.html

"Jefferson was a poor speaker, but his literary talents made him a highly
valued member of committees when resolutions and other public papers were
drafted. "
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...Jefferson.html

"Historian Carl Becker once speculated that that was one reason Jefferson
was such a poor speaker..."
http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/...s/mckenna.html

I'd keep going, but google returned almost 200 hits with "poor speaker" and
"Thomas Jefferson" in the search engine.



Truman
was definitely NOT a poor speaker, else why would his "whistle stop"
campaign tour produce such good results?

Wrong again.

"In contrast to FDR, Harry Truman never managed to improve his poor speaking
ability. He relied on teleprompters and had difficulty navigating the text
of a prepared speech. Truman fared better when speaking extemporaneously,
but his generally flawed communication consigned him to low public approval
rating (20-30 percent) for a significant portion of his presidential
career."
http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/leadershi...residents.html



Taft? You gotta be kidding. I have no doubt he was an intelligent man,
but "one of the most brilliant"??? And what is the evidence that he was
a notably poor speaker?

Since you don't consider him a brilliant man, we needn't address him.


Madison could be considered brilliant if he weren't standing in the same
room with either Jefferson or Franklin (or for that matter, Hamilton, or
for that matter, Burr).

Are you kidding?

"his political achievements and intellectual legacy are monumental. Revered
as the "Father of the Constitution," Madison was also architect of the
"Virginia plan"; one of the two principal authors of The Federalist; leader
of the inaugural House of Representatives; reluctant champion of the Bill of
Rights; cofounder of the Republican Party, Washington's ghostwriter;
Jefferson's Secretary of State; and president and commander-in-chief during
America's second war of Independence. "
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts


But again, whence comes any intimation that he
was a poor speaker?

Whence?

"Hardly an imposing figure, Madison was barely five-feet-six-inches tall,
pale complected, a poor speaker"
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts








Sorry, Nobby, no cigar. Not even close.

Then you're blind...or ignorant...or just plain being an ass.

Are you saying that just because Jefferson was a poor speaker, that he
wasn't VERY intelligent??

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
1) James Madison
2) Harry Truman
3) William H. Taft
4) Thomas Jefferson

The only one on this list who was "brilliant" is Jefferson. And I've
never read that he was a poor speaker, but rather the contrary.

Ironically, the man you list as the most brilliant on my list, has the
greatest number of references
to his poor speaking ability:

"A poor speaker, Jefferson's written work impressed the Assembly,
despite
some reservations."
http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles...jeffadams.html

"Jefferson was a poor speaker, but his literary talents made him a
highly
valued member of committees when resolutions and other public papers
were
drafted. "
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...Jefferson.html

"Historian Carl Becker once speculated that that was one reason
Jefferson
was such a poor speaker..."
http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/...s/mckenna.html

I'd keep going, but google returned almost 200 hits with "poor speaker"
and
"Thomas Jefferson" in the search engine.



Truman
was definitely NOT a poor speaker, else why would his "whistle stop"
campaign tour produce such good results?

Wrong again.

"In contrast to FDR, Harry Truman never managed to improve his poor
speaking
ability. He relied on teleprompters and had difficulty navigating the
text
of a prepared speech. Truman fared better when speaking
extemporaneously,
but his generally flawed communication consigned him to low public
approval
rating (20-30 percent) for a significant portion of his presidential
career."

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/leadershi...residents.html



Taft? You gotta be kidding. I have no doubt he was an intelligent man,
but "one of the most brilliant"??? And what is the evidence that he
was
a notably poor speaker?

Since you don't consider him a brilliant man, we needn't address him.


Madison could be considered brilliant if he weren't standing in the
same
room with either Jefferson or Franklin (or for that matter, Hamilton,
or
for that matter, Burr).

Are you kidding?

"his political achievements and intellectual legacy are monumental.
Revered
as the "Father of the Constitution," Madison was also architect of the
"Virginia plan"; one of the two principal authors of The Federalist;
leader
of the inaugural House of Representatives; reluctant champion of the
Bill of
Rights; cofounder of the Republican Party, Washington's ghostwriter;
Jefferson's Secretary of State; and president and commander-in-chief
during
America's second war of Independence. "
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts


But again, whence comes any intimation that he
was a poor speaker?

Whence?

"Hardly an imposing figure, Madison was barely five-feet-six-inches
tall,
pale complected, a poor speaker"
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts








Sorry, Nobby, no cigar. Not even close.

Then you're blind...or ignorant...or just plain being an ass.

Are you saying that just because Jefferson was a poor speaker, that he
wasn't VERY intelligent??

Hey NOYB, you got a bite. This one is not a keeper though.

Thanks for the good laugh asskisser. You really do not have a clue, do you?

Yes. To both questions.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that just because Jefferson was a poor speaker, that he
wasn't VERY intelligent??

Yes. To both questions.

You have to be very proud of 'asskisser. He truly represents the brainpower
of the left.

jim-- wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


Are you saying that just because Jefferson was a poor speaker, that he
wasn't VERY intelligent??


Yes. To both questions.


You have to be very proud of 'asskisser. He truly represents the brainpower
of the left.



Nice try, **** for brains, but my response was to the header...

Bush is a moron, and he plays one on TV.


I haven't been following this string closely. Ar eyou right-wing
retards trying to compare Bush's intelligence to Jefferson's? If, on the
scale of intelligence, where 100 is the highest possible number,
Jefferson would be in the 90s. Bush would be in the 50's.

LOL, I almost blew coffee out my nose. Bass is living proof that monkeys do
mate with chimpanzee.


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
1) James Madison
2) Harry Truman
3) William H. Taft
4) Thomas Jefferson

The only one on this list who was "brilliant" is Jefferson. And I've
never read that he was a poor speaker, but rather the contrary.

Ironically, the man you list as the most brilliant on my list, has the
greatest number of references
to his poor speaking ability:

"A poor speaker, Jefferson's written work impressed the Assembly,
despite
some reservations."
http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles...jeffadams.html

"Jefferson was a poor speaker, but his literary talents made him a
highly
valued member of committees when resolutions and other public papers
were
drafted. "
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...Jefferson.html

"Historian Carl Becker once speculated that that was one reason
Jefferson
was such a poor speaker..."
http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/...s/mckenna.html

I'd keep going, but google returned almost 200 hits with "poor speaker"
and
"Thomas Jefferson" in the search engine.



Truman
was definitely NOT a poor speaker, else why would his "whistle stop"
campaign tour produce such good results?

Wrong again.

"In contrast to FDR, Harry Truman never managed to improve his poor
speaking
ability. He relied on teleprompters and had difficulty navigating the
text
of a prepared speech. Truman fared better when speaking
extemporaneously,
but his generally flawed communication consigned him to low public
approval
rating (20-30 percent) for a significant portion of his presidential
career."

http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/leadershi...residents.html



Taft? You gotta be kidding. I have no doubt he was an intelligent man,
but "one of the most brilliant"??? And what is the evidence that he
was
a notably poor speaker?

Since you don't consider him a brilliant man, we needn't address him.


Madison could be considered brilliant if he weren't standing in the
same
room with either Jefferson or Franklin (or for that matter, Hamilton,
or
for that matter, Burr).

Are you kidding?

"his political achievements and intellectual legacy are monumental.
Revered
as the "Father of the Constitution," Madison was also architect of the
"Virginia plan"; one of the two principal authors of The Federalist;
leader
of the inaugural House of Representatives; reluctant champion of the
Bill of
Rights; cofounder of the Republican Party, Washington's ghostwriter;
Jefferson's Secretary of State; and president and commander-in-chief
during
America's second war of Independence. "
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts


But again, whence comes any intimation that he
was a poor speaker?

Whence?

"Hardly an imposing figure, Madison was barely five-feet-six-inches
tall,
pale complected, a poor speaker"
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts








Sorry, Nobby, no cigar. Not even close.

Then you're blind...or ignorant...or just plain being an ass.

Are you saying that just because Jefferson was a poor speaker, that he
wasn't VERY intelligent??

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:xtYxc.76404$Ly.26357@attbi_s01...
LOL, I almost blew coffee out my nose. Bass is living proof that
monkeys do
mate with chimpanzee.

Not sure about that, but obivously his family tree only has one branch
with a few loops in it :-)




"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"NOYB" wrote in message
...
"DSK" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
1) James Madison
2) Harry Truman
3) William H. Taft
4) Thomas Jefferson

The only one on this list who was "brilliant" is Jefferson. And
I've
never read that he was a poor speaker, but rather the contrary.

Ironically, the man you list as the most brilliant on my list, has
the
greatest number of references
to his poor speaking ability:

"A poor speaker, Jefferson's written work impressed the Assembly,
despite
some reservations."
http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles...jeffadams.html

"Jefferson was a poor speaker, but his literary talents made him a
highly
valued member of committees when resolutions and other public papers
were
drafted. "
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...Jefferson.html

"Historian Carl Becker once speculated that that was one reason
Jefferson
was such a poor speaker..."
http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/...s/mckenna.html

I'd keep going, but google returned almost 200 hits with "poor
speaker"
and
"Thomas Jefferson" in the search engine.



Truman
was definitely NOT a poor speaker, else why would his "whistle
stop"
campaign tour produce such good results?

Wrong again.

"In contrast to FDR, Harry Truman never managed to improve his poor
speaking
ability. He relied on teleprompters and had difficulty navigating
the
text
of a prepared speech. Truman fared better when speaking
extemporaneously,
but his generally flawed communication consigned him to low public
approval
rating (20-30 percent) for a significant portion of his presidential
career."


http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/leadershi...residents.html



Taft? You gotta be kidding. I have no doubt he was an intelligent
man,
but "one of the most brilliant"??? And what is the evidence that
he
was
a notably poor speaker?

Since you don't consider him a brilliant man, we needn't address
him.


Madison could be considered brilliant if he weren't standing in
the
same
room with either Jefferson or Franklin (or for that matter,
Hamilton,
or
for that matter, Burr).

Are you kidding?

"his political achievements and intellectual legacy are monumental.
Revered
as the "Father of the Constitution," Madison was also architect of
the
"Virginia plan"; one of the two principal authors of The Federalist;
leader
of the inaugural House of Representatives; reluctant champion of the
Bill of
Rights; cofounder of the Republican Party, Washington's ghostwriter;
Jefferson's Secretary of State; and president and commander-in-chief
during
America's second war of Independence. "
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts


But again, whence comes any intimation that he
was a poor speaker?

Whence?

"Hardly an imposing figure, Madison was barely five-feet-six-inches
tall,
pale complected, a poor speaker"
http://tinyurl.com/3fgts








Sorry, Nobby, no cigar. Not even close.

Then you're blind...or ignorant...or just plain being an ass.

Are you saying that just because Jefferson was a poor speaker, that he
wasn't VERY intelligent??