John Sobieski wrote:
My question remains, when did the USA and Canada have a "religious war"
with anyone?

We're having one right now. President Bush and many military commanders
have proclaimed the war in Iraq as a crusade, fight against satan, etc
etc. Many Christian fundamentalists... including a few in this "boating"
newsgroup... continually go on and on about how all Muslims are evil,
murdurous, subhuman, etc etc.



"John H" wrote
In your mind, do these Christian atrocities justify the current Muslim
atrocities?

No

Should we just live with and enjoy the Muslim killings?

You mean the killing of Muslims?
No.

You mean Muslims killing others?
No


If a reasonable Democrat were president, and he continued the fight against
Muslim terrorists, would you condemn him?


If we had a President who was fighting terrorists, be they Muslim or
Martian, I'd support him.

Our current gov't is taking a few positive steps against terrorism, and
I support them. The Bush Administration is also stamping out your
Constitutional rights as a pretense of fighting terrorism. They are also
underhandedly encouraging the proliferation of nuclear weapons by
potentially terrorist states, failing to secure U.S. borders, and a
number of other things I've already detailed & documented here... do
*you* support that?


John Sobieski wrote:
As a Christian, I abhor all atrocities against our fellow man. Admitidly,
there were in the long distant past atrocities committed by Christians.

And a lot in the not so distant past. But usually people don't like to
hear about them.

... But
no more than those committed by non Christians.

That's possible, it's difficult to keep accurate score over the
millenia. But Christianity has a long history of proclaiming militancy
for it's own sake.


... It does seem to me that the
most recent wave of atrocities and genocide are not committed by
Christians, but against them in some cases.


You should check the news in more detail. There are Christians
committing atrocities, mass murder, and genocide in several places
throughout the world, notably Indonesia and the Balkans. And there are a
lot of places right here in the USA where small-minded Christian bigots
feel free to terrorize... and in some cases, murder... their neighbors.

DSK

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:12:23 -0400, DSK wrote:

John Sobieski wrote:
My question remains, when did the USA and Canada have a "religious war"
with anyone?

We're having one right now. President Bush and many military commanders
have proclaimed the war in Iraq as a crusade, fight against satan, etc
etc. Many Christian fundamentalists... including a few in this "boating"
newsgroup... continually go on and on about how all Muslims are evil,
murdurous, subhuman, etc etc.



"John H" wrote
In your mind, do these Christian atrocities justify the current Muslim
atrocities?

No

Should we just live with and enjoy the Muslim killings?

You mean the killing of Muslims?
No.

You mean Muslims killing others?
No


If a reasonable Democrat were president, and he continued the fight against
Muslim terrorists, would you condemn him?


If we had a President who was fighting terrorists, be they Muslim or
Martian, I'd support him.

Our current gov't is taking a few positive steps against terrorism, and
I support them. The Bush Administration is also stamping out your
Constitutional rights as a pretense of fighting terrorism. They are also
underhandedly encouraging the proliferation of nuclear weapons by
potentially terrorist states, failing to secure U.S. borders, and a
number of other things I've already detailed & documented here..

Your 'proclamations' are a far cry from 'documentation'.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:12:23 -0400, DSK wrote:

John Sobieski wrote:
My question remains, when did the USA and Canada have a "religious war"
with anyone?

We're having one right now. President Bush and many military commanders
have proclaimed the war in Iraq as a crusade, fight against satan, etc
etc. Many Christian fundamentalists... including a few in this "boating"
newsgroup... continually go on and on about how all Muslims are evil,
murdurous, subhuman, etc etc.



"John H" wrote
In your mind, do these Christian atrocities justify the current Muslim
atrocities?

No

Should we just live with and enjoy the Muslim killings?

You mean the killing of Muslims?
No.

You mean Muslims killing others?
No


If a reasonable Democrat were president, and he continued the fight
against
Muslim terrorists, would you condemn him?


If we had a President who was fighting terrorists, be they Muslim or
Martian, I'd support him.

Our current gov't is taking a few positive steps against terrorism, and
I support them. The Bush Administration is also stamping out your
Constitutional rights as a pretense of fighting terrorism. They are also
underhandedly encouraging the proliferation of nuclear weapons by
potentially terrorist states, failing to secure U.S. borders, and a
number of other things I've already detailed & documented here..

Your 'proclamations' are a far cry from 'documentation'.


It is always funny to see liebrals whine about "stamping out the
consitution" considering the 60 or so years of liebral control of the house,
as well as several liebral presidents has made so much of the constitution
meaningless

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

PocoLoco wrote:
Your 'proclamations' are a far cry from 'documentation'.


I haven't "proclaimed" anything. You do like to use words your own way,
don't you? A dictionary might help.

Everything I have posted here has been accurate, and I have often
provided references. So far, your pals have been screeching & whining
about how you've "proved" me wrong but never once have come up with the
facts. Just keep changing the subject!

For example, how many bombs have Muslims set off in the US, how many
bombs have Christians set off in the US? Remember that question? It was
claimed by several of your Bush-Cheney cheerleading club that Muslims
had unquestionably set off more bombs, but proof & numbers are strangely
lacking. Just a lot of insistence, over & over, that you *have* to be
right... just because! Oh, and a lot of name calling, including
insisting that it's "liberals" who have no facts & logic on their side,
just a lot of name-calling.

Now, unless some facts are forthcoming pretty quick, I'm done. Bye.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
PocoLoco wrote:
Your 'proclamations' are a far cry from 'documentation'.


I haven't "proclaimed" anything. You do like to use words your own way,
don't you? A dictionary might help.

Everything I have posted here has been accurate, and I have often provided
references. So far, your pals have been screeching & whining about how
you've "proved" me wrong but never once have come up with the facts. Just
keep changing the subject!

For example, how many bombs have Muslims set off in the US, how many bombs
have Christians set off in the US? Remember that question? It was claimed
by several of your Bush-Cheney cheerleading club that Muslims had
unquestionably set off more bombs, but proof & numbers are strangely
lacking. Just a lot of insistence, over & over, that you *have* to be
right... just because! Oh, and a lot of name calling, including insisting
that it's "liberals" who have no facts & logic on their side, just a lot
of name-calling.

Now, unless some facts are forthcoming pretty quick, I'm done. Bye.

DSK


OK, lets restate some things. With the ease that WMD can be built by just
about anyone a concerted effort to promote the growth of "FREE" countries
with a large middle class and a free press seems to be a good idea. Sound
familiar? What we are doing in Iraq!

There are many people and institutions that are against this. Most notably
for this discussion are Islamic radicals, Osama being one of the notables.
IF you look at history Islam, and to a lesser extent the Catholic church
have been promoters of top down societies.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:57:56 -0400, DSK wrote:

PocoLoco wrote:
Your 'proclamations' are a far cry from 'documentation'.


I haven't "proclaimed" anything. You do like to use words your own way,
don't you? A dictionary might help.

Everything I have posted here has been accurate, and I have often
provided references. So far, your pals have been screeching & whining
about how you've "proved" me wrong but never once have come up with the
facts. Just keep changing the subject!

For example, how many bombs have Muslims set off in the US, how many
bombs have Christians set off in the US? Remember that question? It was
claimed by several of your Bush-Cheney cheerleading club that Muslims
had unquestionably set off more bombs, but proof & numbers are strangely
lacking. Just a lot of insistence, over & over, that you *have* to be
right... just because! Oh, and a lot of name calling, including
insisting that it's "liberals" who have no facts & logic on their side,
just a lot of name-calling.

Now, unless some facts are forthcoming pretty quick, I'm done. Bye.

DSK

I've not called you a name, and I've not made the claims you state above. The
above is an example of the 'proclamations' to which I referred.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

Jeff Rigby wrote:
OK, lets restate some things. With the ease that WMD can be built by just
about anyone a concerted effort to promote the growth of "FREE" countries
with a large middle class and a free press seems to be a good idea. Sound
familiar? What we are doing in Iraq!


Difficult to say, so far. There seems to be a pretty good chance of Iraq
becoming at least partially theocratic, and there will be a large
influential population of America-haters there... expected when we've
killed so many of them and trashed so much of the country. Is that a
positive step?

There is also potential for Iraq to become more like Turkey, a
pro-Western secular state.

And what of Iran? The closest thing they have to a pro-Western secular
oriented middle class recently suffered a big political setback, and the
rulers seem determined to built nukes.


There are many people and institutions that are against this. Most notably
for this discussion are Islamic radicals, Osama being one of the notables.

Yep. So why haven't we caught him?


IF you look at history Islam, and to a lesser extent the Catholic church
have been promoters of top down societies.


Islam far less so than Catholicism... for one big difference, there is
no Muslim equivalent of the Pope. And let's not leave out the fact that
numerous Protestant churches have jumped into the
political/socio-econimic scramble to put themselves on top. Let's also
not forget that the Bush Administration has been notable for policies
that tend to shift income & influence away from the lower & middle class.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
OK, lets restate some things. With the ease that WMD can be built by
just about anyone a concerted effort to promote the growth of "FREE"
countries with a large middle class and a free press seems to be a good
idea. Sound familiar? What we are doing in Iraq!


Difficult to say, so far. There seems to be a pretty good chance of Iraq
becoming at least partially theocratic, and there will be a large
influential population of America-haters there... expected when we've
killed so many of them and trashed so much of the country. Is that a
positive step?

There is also potential for Iraq to become more like Turkey, a pro-Western
secular state.

And what of Iran? The closest thing they have to a pro-Western secular
oriented middle class recently suffered a big political setback, and the
rulers seem determined to built nukes.


There are many people and institutions that are against this. Most
notably for this discussion are Islamic radicals, Osama being one of the
notables.

Yep. So why haven't we caught him?


IF you look at history Islam, and to a lesser extent the Catholic church
have been promoters of top down societies.


To this point I 'm happy to note that you agree with the thrust of my
thoughts. Makes you seem more human (reasonable) grin

Islam far less so than Catholicism... for one big difference, there is no
Muslim equivalent of the Pope.

It's not how the religion is organized internally but it's teachings,
teaching prostration before God and the church, fear of God, subservience to
the church.

IF you look at all the rules that Islam has laid down for man you get the
impression they think man is an animal that can't control himself if he
"sees" a woman, or drinks alcohol. He can't even drive a car with a woman
in the front seat. What kind of society treats it's citizens that way, one
that believes the comman man can't rule himself.

And let's not leave out the fact that
numerous Protestant churches have jumped into the political/socio-econimic
scramble to put themselves on top. Let's also not forget that the Bush
Administration has been notable for policies that tend to shift income &
influence away from the lower & middle class.

DSK

Yes I've seen notes all over the place and tried to correct the lies in
these notes but haven't seen any policies implemented by Bush that aren't
good for the common man.

Jim, those wars weren't a Christian "Jihad"

And even if you want to go back to the Crusades, those religious wars,
but nothing "Christian" about them.

Jesus never said to start a war with anybody. it's the religious fools
and nutcases that hide behind the names of Jesus and Mohammed and/or
Buddah that work to convince followers to make war in the names of
Holy ones...

I

For example, how many bombs have Muslims set off in the US, how many
bombs have Christians set off in the US?

you talking about TRUE Moslims, and TRUE Christians?

the answer would be "NONE!"