You knew that was an exaggeration, to prove a point.

wrote in message
news
Darn, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Ford 302 with pistons off
sized
by feet instead of thousandth's of an inch....

That would be amazing to see....

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 May 2004 19:41:21 GMT, "Tony Thomas"
wrote:

First of all - I think you have drastically underestimated the
weight.
According to the SeaRay website - the 21' Sport has a dry weight of
3150
lbs. Add 40 gallons of fuel (240 lbs) battery, life jackets, all
your
stuff
and your at 3500 lbs for the boat. Now add another 1000 lbs (or
more)
for
the 21' trailer (I assume it is tandem axle w/ brakes) and your at
4500
lbs.
4500 lbs is way too much for a minivan to tow and not destroy the
transmission.
Look at SUVs or 4 door trucks. And remember, if the vehicle is rated
for
4900 lbs, 4500 is going to be a real load at highway speeds and you
will
not
maintain 70 mph going up an kind of a hill. You need something rated
for
5500 lbs or so to make it a comfortable tow.


Based on the weight calculated by Tony, you'll need a tow vehicle with
a
V8.
BTW, for my 21' Center console I bought a LoadRite galvanized,
tandem-axle
trailer with disk brakes on all four wheels last fall and it weighs
1,250
pounds. The Tundra has the best reliability rating in "Consumer
Reports"
magazine and the Ford F-150 is next. You can get either one with an
extended cab or a double-size cab. For an SUV, the Toyota 4-Runner
rates
very high and it has been available with a V8 beginning with the 2003
model
year.

Based on what I hear from an acquaintance who visits the 3 American
manufacturers, helping them set up their machining equipment:

Keep in mind that Ford's engine manufacturing tolerances are measures in
feet, instead of thousandths of an inch, like Toyota's. So, even if
Ford's
reliability ratings are close to Toyota's, the Ford will be puking burnt
oil
out of the tailpipe from the minute it's driven away from the dealer's
lot.
Chevy & Chrysler aren't far behind.

On Sat, 15 May 2004 23:29:00 GMT, something compelled
, to say:

The Tundra has the best reliability rating in "Consumer Reports"
magazine and the Ford F-150 is next.

I don't tow with my F-150, but I can say that it's a '94, has
more than 140,000 miles on it, and has yet to let me down. I put
in a new clutch at 130,000, and had the front end rebuilt at
about 115,000.

It still looks good, starts without hesitation, doesn't rattle,
and everything still works. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one
to anyone.

On Sun, 16 May 2004 00:31:00 GMT, something compelled "Doug
Kanter" , to say:

Keep in mind that Ford's engine manufacturing tolerances are measures in
feet, instead of thousandths of an inch, like Toyota's. So, even if Ford's
reliability ratings are close to Toyota's, the Ford will be puking burnt oil
out of the tailpipe from the minute it's driven away from the dealer's lot.

Yeah, I heard that. It's why I insisted on an F-150 built by
elves in Switzerland. One hundred forty thousand miles later its
lederhosen has yet to fall down around its ankles.

"Steve Daniels, Seek of Spam" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 May 2004 23:29:00 GMT, something compelled
, to say:

The Tundra has the best reliability rating in "Consumer Reports"
magazine and the Ford F-150 is next.

I don't tow with my F-150, but I can say that it's a '94, has
more than 140,000 miles on it, and has yet to let me down. I put
in a new clutch at 130,000, and had the front end rebuilt at
about 115,000.

It still looks good, starts without hesitation, doesn't rattle,
and everything still works. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one
to anyone.

What do you mean by "front end rebuilt"?

On Sun, 16 May 2004 01:55:41 GMT, something compelled "Doug
Kanter" , to say:

"Steve Daniels, Seek of Spam" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 15 May 2004 23:29:00 GMT, something compelled
, to say:

The Tundra has the best reliability rating in "Consumer Reports"
magazine and the Ford F-150 is next.

I don't tow with my F-150, but I can say that it's a '94, has
more than 140,000 miles on it, and has yet to let me down.

What do you mean by "front end rebuilt"?

It was pulling to the right quite severely, and wearing out the
tires. I took it in for an alignment, and was informed that
several parts had worn to the point where they would have to be
replaced before an alignment would work. I had the front brakes
done at the same time, and paid about $1000 when it was all done.

I don't remember which parts were replaced, but I'd think that
for $1000 worth of work, rebuilt is the proper word.

On Sat, 15 May 2004 23:29:00 GMT, wrote:

The Tundra has the best reliability rating in "Consumer Reports"
magazine and the Ford F-150 is next.

===========================================

I have a 2002 Tundra, V8/4wd/extended cab, with 45,000 miles on it.
It has been a great vehicle so far and rated for 7,200 lbs towing. We
pulled our 24 ft I/O cuddy 1300 miles from CT to FL last year with no
problems at all. Total weight was about 6,500 with boat and trailer.
No problem maintaining 70+ on the Interstates, used no oil, and got
about 9mpg towing. Normal mileage is about 15 mpg. The Tundra has a
VERY nice engine - overhead cams, fuel injection and distributorless
electronic ignition. If it turns out anything like my old 1992 Camry
it will go 100,000 miles before it needs a tune up and new plugs.

Hello V,

The minivans all tow about 3500# max with a trailer towing package. That is
cutting it pretty close.

A Toyota Tacoma double cab with a V6 and a towing package can pull ~5000#
max.

To be safe I would think that you would want to have a vehicle that can tow
~5000#.

This will probably be a 4 door pickup or an SUV ? but they won't get 30mpg
on the free way. Maybe 20 not pulling.

If you don't need to tow your boat all the time, I would get a new mini van
and get someone to pull your boat.

Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"V Crenshaw" wrote in message
m...
My husband and I have a 21 foot Searay. We have it in a slip at a marina
now.
Together it and the trailer weighs 3000 lbs.

We are going to buy a new vehicle and we are trying to decide what kind
would
most closely meet our criteria of
1) hauling misc things like building materials, tools, an occasional
sofa or washing machine
2) Holding 4 or more people
3) towing the boat
4) As fuel efficent as possible

Truck would be great for everything except the people and fuel. We were
thinking about
a minivan, but don't know how good it would be at towing the boat and more
specifically
launching the boat. I say minivan because he likes them better than
SUV's.

Any advice would be appreciated.

V Crenshaw

On Sat, 15 May 2004 15:49:16 GMT, "V Crenshaw"
wrote:

My husband and I have a 21 foot Searay. We have it in a slip at a marina
now.
Together it and the trailer weighs 3000 lbs.

We are going to buy a new vehicle and we are trying to decide what kind
would
most closely meet our criteria of
1) hauling misc things like building materials, tools, an occasional
sofa or washing machine
2) Holding 4 or more people
3) towing the boat
4) As fuel efficent as possible

Truck would be great for everything except the people and fuel. We were
thinking about
a minivan, but don't know how good it would be at towing the boat and more
specifically
launching the boat. I say minivan because he likes them better than SUV's.

Any advice would be appreciated.

V Crenshaw


You do NOT want anything with front wheel drive if you plan on
launching and retrieving your boat at a ramp. This rules out most
minivans. The only ones I remember being RWD were the old Aerostars
and Safaris. Especially on steeper ramps, all of the weight will be
shifted away from your front wheels and you'll get no traction. I
usually only see FWD vehicles launching jet-skis and small fishing
boats. As a matter of fact, a few years ago a FWD minivan ended up at
the bottom of the lake at the ramp I go to because he lost traction...

Doug,
For the record Ford's engines are measured in microns. The leaking oil
issue hasn't been around for years. Have you driven a Ford lately?
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 May 2004 19:41:21 GMT, "Tony Thomas"
wrote:

First of all - I think you have drastically underestimated the weight.
According to the SeaRay website - the 21' Sport has a dry weight of
3150
lbs. Add 40 gallons of fuel (240 lbs) battery, life jackets, all your
stuff
and your at 3500 lbs for the boat. Now add another 1000 lbs (or more)
for
the 21' trailer (I assume it is tandem axle w/ brakes) and your at 4500
lbs.
4500 lbs is way too much for a minivan to tow and not destroy the
transmission.
Look at SUVs or 4 door trucks. And remember, if the vehicle is rated
for
4900 lbs, 4500 is going to be a real load at highway speeds and you
will
not
maintain 70 mph going up an kind of a hill. You need something rated
for
5500 lbs or so to make it a comfortable tow.


Based on the weight calculated by Tony, you'll need a tow vehicle with a
V8.
BTW, for my 21' Center console I bought a LoadRite galvanized,
tandem-axle
trailer with disk brakes on all four wheels last fall and it weighs
1,250
pounds. The Tundra has the best reliability rating in "Consumer Reports"
magazine and the Ford F-150 is next. You can get either one with an
extended cab or a double-size cab. For an SUV, the Toyota 4-Runner
rates
very high and it has been available with a V8 beginning with the 2003
model
year.

Based on what I hear from an acquaintance who visits the 3 American
manufacturers, helping them set up their machining equipment:

Keep in mind that Ford's engine manufacturing tolerances are measures in
feet, instead of thousandths of an inch, like Toyota's. So, even if Ford's
reliability ratings are close to Toyota's, the Ford will be puking burnt
oil
out of the tailpipe from the minute it's driven away from the dealer's
lot.
Chevy & Chrysler aren't far behind.

Also Sprach V Crenshaw :

We are going to buy a new vehicle and we are trying to decide what kind
would
most closely meet our criteria of
1) hauling misc things like building materials, tools, an occasional
sofa or washing machine
2) Holding 4 or more people
3) towing the boat
4) As fuel efficent as possible

Easy. You want a diesel Suburban. To me, "building materials" means the
ability to carry multiple 4X8 sheets of plywood or drywall or
whatever. You're not going to do that with a minivan or short SUV. 4 or
more people means a standard pickup won't do, and a full-bed crewcab is an
ungodly huge vehicle. A 3000 lb boat is really stretching a minivan to
it's limit, but will be very comfotable behind a 'burb. As far as fuel
efficiency goes, a friend of mine with a '97 Diesel 3/4 ton 2WD gets 21
MPG, which Is far better than the 17 MPG I used to get with a much
smaller Nissan Pathfinder. Now, I have a 1990 Suburban, regular gas, 3/4
Ton 4X4 and get 12-14, or 8 if towing the boat... but's that's why I keep
my VW as a daily driver.


--
I shoot for the moon, but sometimes I hit London

-- Werner von Braun