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  #71   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

Old men too weak to lift 100 feet of nylon rope plus an anchor insist on all
chain rode -- claiming it is safer -- because chain fits through an electric
windlass with less effort than tailing a rope on an electric windlass.


my mixed rode turned out to be a
nightmare to use with my windlass,


but ....

.... mixed rode has shock absorbing capability and all chain does not once the
wind picks up. At that point, wave action can put SERIOUS shock loads on the
chain, the anchor and the deck chocks.

Heavy seas require more scope


more scope does nothing at all to reduce shock loads once the winds have picked
up enough to pull the chain tight. That is the nature of the mathematics
involved.

and the use of a snubber to provide the
shock absorbing characteristics necessary to prevent tackle damage.


a short snubber don't hack it. nylon rope will stretch 3% to 5% before
starting to deform and an adequate snubber for windy conditions can require 10
feet - or more -- "shock load" movement room. five or ten feet of snubber will
break in short order.
  #72   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

shen, as usual, your response addresses nothing of the issue. you are drinking
too much, again.

From: (Shen44)
Date: 4/19/2004 6:59 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From:
(JAXAshby)
Date: 04/18/2004 11:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


dum-dum, you are. both the Navy and cruise ships -- when at anchor -- keep
their engines running to be used to get the hell out of Dodge should the
winds
become too strong.


Where'd you ever come up with that stupid notion. If they were going to keep
their engines running, (A) they'd overrun their anchor and (B) mights well
stay
at sea and cruise around wasting fuel.

Also, both the Navy and cruise ships use anchors totally
inappropriate for recreational sailboat. Navy anchors are for squat

holding,
they are designed to be easily stored.


Wrong again. Many of the smaller combatants use anchors with many
similarities
to the Danforth which are appropriate to recreational sailboats.
At any rate, the anchors used on ships have some pretty good holding power in
varying conditions (I've been anchored on tankers in wind exceeding 40K, on
one
anchor, with no problems).
BTW, my "Contessa" had all chain rode with no windlass/winch, and a Danforth
....never had a problem in all kinds of holding grounds.
So, Jax ..... should I add "anchor handling" to the list of courses you need
to
take?

Shen











  #73   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

over the (k)nee, there is a village in Arkansas looking for you.

Just as Jax left the discussion regarding propwalk, because it
exceeded his knowledge, he has quickly left this discussion, since his
limited knowledge/experience on the subject has become quickly obvious.
However, I applaud his effort to try and get this NG into discussions
other than the various idiot's political rants.
(Only assholes and politicians find politics worth argument..... and
only idiots interject those arguments into subjects with no relationship).

Off the soapbox.......

otn

Shen44 wrote:
Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 04/18/2004 11:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


dum-dum, you are. both the Navy and cruise ships -- when at anchor -- keep
their engines running to be used to get the hell out of Dodge should the
winds
become too strong.



Where'd you ever come up with that stupid notion. If they were going to

keep
their engines running, (A) they'd overrun their anchor and (B) mights well

stay
at sea and cruise around wasting fuel.

Also, both the Navy and cruise ships use anchors totally

inappropriate for recreational sailboat. Navy anchors are for squat

holding,
they are designed to be easily stored.



Wrong again. Many of the smaller combatants use anchors with many

similarities
to the Danforth which are appropriate to recreational sailboats.
At any rate, the anchors used on ships have some pretty good holding power

in
varying conditions (I've been anchored on tankers in wind exceeding 40K, on

one
anchor, with no problems).
BTW, my "Contessa" had all chain rode with no windlass/winch, and a

Danforth
....never had a problem in all kinds of holding grounds.
So, Jax ..... should I add "anchor handling" to the list of courses you

need to
take?

Shen












  #74   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
Posts: n/a
Default All chain rode is for old men

Are you suggesting that large ships should use rope to anchor in heavy
weather?


no, I am not. I *am* stating flat out that any talk of how steel freighters
and cruise ship manned 24/7/365 and anchored in beneign conditions is specious
in the context of anchoring recreational sailboats in windy conditions. It is
the type of talk as might be expected from old men too weak, too lazy to lift a
35# anchor.
  #75   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

a 3 foot nylon snubber will stretch about an inch or two before it starts to
permanently deform. a thirty foot snubber will stretch about twelve inches
before permanently deforming.

In windy conditions where an all chain rode is pulled tight, wave action can
cause the boat to jerk solidly against the chain with a boat movement due to
waves of upwards of five feet or more. Under those conditions, your anchor is
coming loose or your deck chocks are breaking off.

NO body chains a boat to a dock and NObody chains a boat to a rock on shore.
Why then would anyone chain a boat to a rock under water?

Why? Because they are too weak and too old and too lazy to lift a 35# anchor.

Fact is, all chain WILL bust out an anchor -- or break deck chocks loose --
when the winds pick up and the waves start.



Hence why ones uses a snubber with an all chain rode....

-al-











  #76   Report Post  
Shen44
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

bject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/12/2004 04:34 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

shen, as usual, your response addresses nothing of the issue. you are
drinking
too much, again.


So you're saying a 26' Contessa with all chain rode has nothing to do with the
discussion....
That a ship at anchor in windy conditions is totally different from a small
boat at anchor in windy conditions.....

At any rate, you seem to be stating that once you've anchored, you're now stuck
with whatever conditions arise and that you would (as expected) be dumb enough
not to make any changes if the loads on your chain/anchor became great enough
to cause dragging or damage to chocks/cleats/bitts on you boat.
There are a number of possibilities:

1. Pay attention to weather reports. If the forecast indicate you may exceed
your ground tackle limits for your particular anchorage, you should be planning
in advance for various variables.

2. A solution may be as simple as increasing the scope of chain.

3. You may need to set a second anchor, the likelyhood of it being all chain on
a small boat will be slim.

4. "Steam" against the anchor rode, to reduce strain (neither fun nor easy)

5. Heave anchor and get the hell outa Dodge!

Only an idiot such as yourself, would just sit there with his anchor out and
spout math equations for stress and holler "I told ya so's".
No system is perfect and all have limitations that need to be addressed.
All you've done here is point out another boating subject you have little
experience with or knowledge of.....

Shen
  #77   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

Real men haul up their all-chain rode
and 200 lb anchor by hand.


no, real men use a proper anchor system.
  #78   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

Man your obnoxious.

Oh? Why is that? Because I can lift a 35# anchor?

My, my, my.
  #79   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

I have to disagree, Chain Rode serves a very important purpose,
espially in Sandy or Muddy Sea Floors. The intent of the Chain is to
keep the Anchor set, of course this can also be done with Weights on
the Rode. This has been the salvation of any Boat that went to Sea in
a Hurricane and Moored, rather than have the Surge pile thier vessel
up on the shore with all the remnants of the Marina.


Sorry, but you are wrong. NObody chains a boat to a dock, and NObody chains a
boat to a rock onshore. The ONLY people who chain a boat to rock underwater do
so because they are too weak and too old to lift an anchor. An anchor chained
to a rock underwater WILL break out and/or break loose the deck chocks when the
wind picks up and the waves start. Everyone knows that but weak and lazy old
men.








  #80   Report Post  
JAXAshby
 
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Default All chain rode is for old men

dummy, you ARE going to drag in a storm.

Prove it.


the oil rig people believe it, why don't you?

Am I supposed to "be a man" and pull the damned
thing up with my back everytime?


get your belly down in size to less than your chest and your ass down in size
to less than your waist and you won't have that problem.


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