me, and 99.99876% of the world's population.


.........are not aware of the manner in which
military and commercial ships lay at anchor.

All chain rode would be an overkill for your Sunfsh, however. You are certainly
correct
about that.

a.) rec.boats has become a political trash heap. I am trying to bring boats
back into the ng

You're right, sort of.

1) Rec boats is mostly politics these days.
The majority of new threads are political.
Boating topics get 2-3 responses, "Bush Sucks, Kerry Sucks, This Poster or That
Sucks" threads get 150.

2) It's a trash heap because of the level of discourse, in addition to the
prevailing, political subject matter. Fewer contributors
seem unable to grasp the concept that people with contrasting opinions are not
automatically ignorant miscreants with questionable paternity and incurable
personality disorders. Name calling and flaming are considered standard
procedure, with some posters carrying the same flame war from thread to thread
for several years. Less than adult behavior, by any objective standard.

Take your opening salvo in this thread.

You could have said, "All chain rode is inferior because..............." and
let it go at that. Nope. Didn't happen. Instead, anybody who disagrees with
your opinion is either a "weak old man" or "chicken of the sea."

If your goal is truly to redirect rec.boats from becoming 100% political or
even more of a trash heap, you should consider doing more than introducing a
boating related topic. You might consider a policy under which you don't bring
in additional trash.

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 04/18/2004 11:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


dum-dum, you are. both the Navy and cruise ships -- when at anchor -- keep
their engines running to be used to get the hell out of Dodge should the
winds
become too strong.

Where'd you ever come up with that stupid notion. If they were going to keep
their engines running, (A) they'd overrun their anchor and (B) mights well stay
at sea and cruise around wasting fuel.

Also, both the Navy and cruise ships use anchors totally
inappropriate for recreational sailboat. Navy anchors are for squat holding,
they are designed to be easily stored.

Wrong again. Many of the smaller combatants use anchors with many similarities
to the Danforth which are appropriate to recreational sailboats.
At any rate, the anchors used on ships have some pretty good holding power in
varying conditions (I've been anchored on tankers in wind exceeding 40K, on one
anchor, with no problems).
BTW, my "Contessa" had all chain rode with no windlass/winch, and a Danforth
.....never had a problem in all kinds of holding grounds.
So, Jax ..... should I add "anchor handling" to the list of courses you need to
take?

Shen

Just as Jax left the discussion regarding propwalk, because it
exceeded his knowledge, he has quickly left this discussion, since his
limited knowledge/experience on the subject has become quickly obvious.
However, I applaud his effort to try and get this NG into discussions
other than the various idiot's political rants.
(Only assholes and politicians find politics worth argument..... and
only idiots interject those arguments into subjects with no relationship).

Off the soapbox.......

otn

Shen44 wrote:
Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 04/18/2004 11:02 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


dum-dum, you are. both the Navy and cruise ships -- when at anchor -- keep
their engines running to be used to get the hell out of Dodge should the
winds
become too strong.


Where'd you ever come up with that stupid notion. If they were going to keep
their engines running, (A) they'd overrun their anchor and (B) mights well stay
at sea and cruise around wasting fuel.

Also, both the Navy and cruise ships use anchors totally

inappropriate for recreational sailboat. Navy anchors are for squat holding,
they are designed to be easily stored.


Wrong again. Many of the smaller combatants use anchors with many similarities
to the Danforth which are appropriate to recreational sailboats.
At any rate, the anchors used on ships have some pretty good holding power in
varying conditions (I've been anchored on tankers in wind exceeding 40K, on one
anchor, with no problems).
BTW, my "Contessa" had all chain rode with no windlass/winch, and a Danforth
....never had a problem in all kinds of holding grounds.
So, Jax ..... should I add "anchor handling" to the list of courses you need to
take?

Shen

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...
Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


Well, you should inform the Navy and the cruise lines. They could save a
lot of money on ground tackle.


dum-dum, you are. both the Navy and cruise ships -- when at anchor -- keep
their engines running to be used to get the hell out of Dodge should the winds
become too strong.

Are you suggesting that large ships should use rope to anchor in heavy
weather? Or are you suggesting that smaller boats can't get their
engines started fast enough to beat feet from an anchorage?

Keeping the power plant available at anchor maybe the case for older
steam driven ships - keeping the boilers warm. Not so for most modern
ships. I asked the captain of the cruise ship we were on, while
anchored at Cabo a couple of years ago, if the engines were running.
He answered no. That ship had azipods (sp?) so the drive power was
electric.

I never asked about engines running at achor on a previous cruise, but
it appeared that the engines were shut down and you could feel the one
start just before we departed the anchorage. I say "the one" as on
that trip the destinations were so close together that the ship made
very slow way - on one engine - for the entire cruise. That was also
based on information from the captain during a tour of the ship's
bridge.

I took a day cruise on the USCGC Munro (370' cutter) a couple of years
and we anchored for a couple of hours in SF bay. We visited the
engine room while anchored and I recall the Fairbanks diesels were
shut down. They never started the turbines used for high speed work.

On 18 Apr 2004 13:33:07 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Fact is, all chain WILL bust out an anchor -- or break deck chocks loose --
when the winds pick up and the waves start.



Hence why ones uses a snubber with an all chain rode....

-al-

On 20 Apr 2004 11:05:46 -0700, (Curtis CCR)
wrote:

They never started the turbines used for high speed work.

============================================

They're only allowed a very limited amount of running time on the
turbines because of the high fuel consumption, over 2,000 gallons per
hour if my memory is correct.

Wayne.B wrote in message . ..
On 20 Apr 2004 11:05:46 -0700, (Curtis CCR)
wrote:

They never started the turbines used for high speed work.

============================================

They're only allowed a very limited amount of running time on the
turbines because of the high fuel consumption, over 2,000 gallons per
hour if my memory is correct.

One of the engineers said it was over a gallon per second. They could
stay out for a couple of months using the diesels - they could run the
fuel dry in just a few hours when running the turbines. So we asked -
so when do you run them? "When responding to live or death
emergencies".

I don't recall the exact speed... but it was in the high 30's when
they used the turbines. 35 to 40 knots is a damned good clip for a
jet fuel burning, 370 footer.

Man your obnoxious.

--
--
(((\"`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸(((º¸.
·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. (((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸(((º

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Old men too weak to lift 100 feet of nylon rope plus an anchor insist on
all
chain rode -- claiming it is safer -- because chain fits through an
electric
windlass with less effort than tailing a rope on an electric windlass.

Also, people who are scared to death of the water think all chain is
somehow
"stronger" than rope and thus they want all chain to save themselves from
their
own mistakes.

Fact is, all chain WILL bust out an anchor -- or break deck chocks
loose --
when the winds pick up and the waves start.

all chain is for weak old men in motorboats with sticks and fraidy-cats
whowon't motor down the ICW without listening to Herb.

"R Lanni" wrote in message ...
Man your obnoxious.

--
--
(((\"`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸(((º¸.
·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. (((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸(((º

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Old men too weak to lift 100 feet of nylon rope plus an anchor insist on
all
chain rode -- claiming it is safer -- because chain fits through an
electric
windlass with less effort than tailing a rope on an electric windlass.

Also, people who are scared to death of the water think all chain is
somehow
"stronger" than rope and thus they want all chain to save themselves from
their
own mistakes.

Fact is, all chain WILL bust out an anchor -- or break deck chocks
loose --
when the winds pick up and the waves start.

all chain is for weak old men in motorboats with sticks and fraidy-cats
whowon't motor down the ICW without listening to Herb.

I have to disagree, Chain Rode serves a very important purpose,
espially in Sandy or Muddy Sea Floors. The intent of the Chain is to
keep the Anchor set, of course this can also be done with Weights on
the Rode. This has been the salvation of any Boat that went to Sea in
a Hurricane and Moored, rather than have the Surge pile thier vessel
up on the shore with all the remnants of the Marina.