On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:00:26 -0500, DSK wrote:

WaIIy wrote:
Why do you think a ton of Northern companies moved South in the past 20
years?


Your time line is a little off. The past 15 years has seen manufacturing
companies, even the once mighty textile industry, fleeing the American
South. Go about 110 years further back!

DSK

Gee, you would have thought the Textile and Clothing Workers Industrial Union
would have saved all those jobs. You reckon the union had anything to do with
the outsourcing of all that work?

I wonder which is better, taking a reduction in pay to $27 an hour (fictitious
number) or a reduction to $0 per hour.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:10:24 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
news

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H wrote:
Wal-Mart's Colorado Unit Rejects Union

3 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE:WMT - news) on Friday
said
workers at its Colorado tire shop have voted to reject union
representation, a
step which deals another blow to efforts to unionize at the world's
largest
retailer.

A Wal-Mart statement said tire and lube express associates at its
Loveland
supercenter voted 17-1 to reject representation by the United Food &
Commercial
Workers Union.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame. Wow, seventeen to one.


John H


Wal-Crap's been closing its stores after employees vote for a union.

BTW, Herring, as a sub teacher, aren't you drawing the benefits
negotiated by a labor union?

Are you paying your dues, or are you the typical Republican freeloader?


Just last month in Quebec, Wal-Mart said it was closing a store after the
workers unionized. What a piece of **** company. They should be run out
of
the country on a rail.

Aren't you pro choice Don? The workers made a choice to unionize and the
company made a choice to shutdown. Everybody got to make a choice.


Pro-choice is only good if you want to kill an infant. If you want to choose
where your social security funds go, or choose whether or not to close a store,
you're just *bad*.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:25:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:30:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H wrote:
Wal-Mart's Colorado Unit Rejects Union

3 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE:WMT - news) on Friday said
workers at its Colorado tire shop have voted to reject union representation, a
step which deals another blow to efforts to unionize at the world's largest
retailer.

A Wal-Mart statement said tire and lube express associates at its Loveland
supercenter voted 17-1 to reject representation by the United Food & Commercial
Workers Union.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame. Wow, seventeen to one.

Wal-Crap's been closing its stores after employees vote for a union.

BTW, Herring, as a sub teacher, aren't you drawing the benefits
negotiated by a labor union?

Actually, in this state anyway, subs aren't part of the collective
bargaining agreement because they aren't subject to the same
educational requirements beyond having a basic degree qualification.

I don't think they are in any other state either, but I'm not sure of
that.

Are you paying your dues, or are you the typical Republican freeloader?

Subs in this state don't pay union dues.

Later,

Tom

That's also true of Virginia. Teachers don't pay union dues either, if they have
a little sense and don't get frightened into joining by some union hack.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

Why should the company be forced to accept union labor? They have every
right to close up shop and move if it is being forced on them.

Thank's for agreeing...they should be moved right back to the US.



We are happy to have Walmart Don. It is indeed an American Company.

Do you know that unions now make up less than 10% of the US workforce, with
that figure shrinking every year?

Unions were indeed once needed. They played a very important part in making
work places safe and raising the income standards for workers. But that was
75 to 100 years ago.

Their time has passed however. Their high wage and benefits demands,
combined with their keeping unfit and incompetent workers has led to their
demise.

People now want to determine their own worth on the job and not be tied into
a large collective bargaining group when it comes to pay incentives and
increases. They also want the money once going to union fat cats (dues) to
stay in their pocket.

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:50:36 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H wrote:
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:59:47 GMT, "Don White"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

John H wrote:

Wal-Mart's Colorado Unit Rejects Union

3 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE:WMT - news) on Friday

said

workers at its Colorado tire shop have voted to reject union

representation, a

step which deals another blow to efforts to unionize at the world's

largest

retailer.

A Wal-Mart statement said tire and lube express associates at its

Loveland

supercenter voted 17-1 to reject representation by the United Food &

Commercial

Workers Union.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame. Wow, seventeen to one.


John H


Wal-Crap's been closing its stores after employees vote for a union.

BTW, Herring, as a sub teacher, aren't you drawing the benefits
negotiated by a labor union?

Are you paying your dues, or are you the typical Republican freeloader?


Just last month in Quebec, Wal-Mart said it was closing a store after the
workers unionized. What a piece of **** company. They should be run out of
the country on a rail.


What a piece of **** union!

Tell Harry to do some rope climbing. Seems like you're the only one who answers
him.

The few teachers who actually join a union do so primarily for the legal
representation supposedly offered by the union. I opted for an umbrella policy
with a 'corporal punishment' rider that cost about $25 per year. Once I spread
the word around, several of the few who were in the union quit and did the same
thing.

Nice try, liar.

More than three million classroom teachers are members of the nation's
two largest teacher's unions.

Um...John's approach is pretty much the way it is in states that allow
for this instead of a closed shop approach.

The simple truth is that the NEA/AFT leadership is so out of touch
with the everyday teacher that these same teachers see little value in
contributing. Small locals don't receive the same amount of attention
as the larger locals in the state organizations and when it comes to
state representation at the national level it is pretty much
controlled by those states that have larger delegations - notably CA,
NY, PA and NJ. This overweight towards national issues rather than
grass roots issues is hurting both unions in a way they are just
beginning to perceive. The problems that teachers face in CA aren't
the same as those in IA or ME. The problems that beset Bridgeport
aren't the same as those faced by teachers in Norwich or Ashford.

The face of the state/national unions is that presented by the larger
union locals or states. In CT, if you banded all the small locals,
meaning 100 or less, into one voting block, you would still not reach
the representation of four cities - Bridgeport, Greenwich, New
London/Groton and Danbury. The reason it's so disproportionate is
because of the rules regarding local representation. One delegate per
so many teachers (I forget which). The smaller locals are outgunned
at the state level. It's the same at the national level.

It may soon become an issue of can I get the same benefits by applying
and paying for insurance and negotiating my own contract, as is done
in the business world, than I can by joining an organization that
doesn't care about me unless I belong to a local with some state level
authority.

It's that simple.

Later,

Tom

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

Why should the company be forced to accept union labor? They have every
right to close up shop and move if it is being forced on them.

Thank's for agreeing...they should be moved right back to the US.



We are happy to have Walmart Don. It is indeed an American Company.

Do you know that unions now make up less than 10% of the US workforce,
with that figure shrinking every year?

Unions were indeed once needed. They played a very important part in
making work places safe and raising the income standards for workers. But
that was 75 to 100 years ago.

Their time has passed however. Their high wage and benefits demands,
combined with their keeping unfit and incompetent workers has led to their
demise.

People now want to determine their own worth on the job and not be tied
into a large collective bargaining group when it comes to pay incentives
and increases. They also want the money once going to union fat cats
(dues) to stay in their pocket.



I should also add:

The unions have done a bang up job with the construction industry apprentice
programs, resulting in a highly skilled labor force in some.specific fields,
most specifically heavy equipment operators, sheet metal workers,
electricians and masons.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H wrote:
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:59:47 GMT, "Don White"

wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

John H wrote:

Wal-Mart's Colorado Unit Rejects Union

3 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE:WMT - news) on Friday

said

workers at its Colorado tire shop have voted to reject union

representation, a

step which deals another blow to efforts to unionize at the world's

largest

retailer.

A Wal-Mart statement said tire and lube express associates at its

Loveland

supercenter voted 17-1 to reject representation by the United Food &

Commercial

Workers Union.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame. Wow, seventeen to one.


John H


Wal-Crap's been closing its stores after employees vote for a union.

BTW, Herring, as a sub teacher, aren't you drawing the benefits
negotiated by a labor union?

Are you paying your dues, or are you the typical Republican freeloader?


Just last month in Quebec, Wal-Mart said it was closing a store after the
workers unionized. What a piece of **** company. They should be run out
of
the country on a rail.


What a piece of **** union!

Tell Harry to do some rope climbing. Seems like you're the only one who
answers
him.

The few teachers who actually join a union do so primarily for the legal
representation supposedly offered by the union. I opted for an umbrella
policy
with a 'corporal punishment' rider that cost about $25 per year. Once I
spread
the word around, several of the few who were in the union quit and did
the same
thing.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes


Nice try, liar.

More than three million classroom teachers are members of the nation's two
largest teacher's unions.

Figures you'd be a free-rider, though. Too bad you aren't paid at a rate
you have to negotiate on your own.

If your worth doesn't get you the pay rate you want then you have to improve
your worth or lower your expectations. It's pretty damn simple and 90% of
the workforce already operates this way.

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:42:56 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:25:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:30:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H wrote:
Wal-Mart's Colorado Unit Rejects Union

3 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE:WMT - news) on Friday said
workers at its Colorado tire shop have voted to reject union representation, a
step which deals another blow to efforts to unionize at the world's largest
retailer.

A Wal-Mart statement said tire and lube express associates at its Loveland
supercenter voted 17-1 to reject representation by the United Food & Commercial
Workers Union.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame. Wow, seventeen to one.

Wal-Crap's been closing its stores after employees vote for a union.

BTW, Herring, as a sub teacher, aren't you drawing the benefits
negotiated by a labor union?

Actually, in this state anyway, subs aren't part of the collective
bargaining agreement because they aren't subject to the same
educational requirements beyond having a basic degree qualification.

I don't think they are in any other state either, but I'm not sure of
that.

Are you paying your dues, or are you the typical Republican freeloader?

Subs in this state don't pay union dues.

That's also true of Virginia. Teachers don't pay union dues either, if they have
a little sense and don't get frightened into joining by some union hack.

No offense, but my wife is one of those "hacks" - a fairly important
one to boot - and she, along with others are trying to fix things
instead of hiding behind some notion of independence.

The good thing about negotiated contracts certain aspects of the
teaching/administrating a school can be defined - don't forget that
you don't have a lot of protection from an administration determined
to get you if they wish.

It's not a good ting to take a free ride John unless you are capable
of negotiating your own separate contract.

As I said, no offense.

Later,

Tom

John H wrote:
Gee, you would have thought the Textile and Clothing Workers Industrial Union
would have saved all those jobs. You reckon the union had anything to do with
the outsourcing of all that work?


I dooubt it strongly, since few textile plants in the South were
unionized right up to the end.

I wonder which is better, taking a reduction in pay to $27 an hour (fictitious
number) or a reduction to $0 per hour.


You're really full of ****. Do you think the average mill worker ever
got anywhere near $27 per hour? What do you think they *did* get, if you
have to pull fictitious numbers out of thin air?

Do you think that American laborers should compete on an "even playing
field" ie no pollution laws, no workplace safety laws, and $1/day wages
such as prevalent in the 3rd world? The only way to compete is through
technology... and intelligent management... both of which require the
application of a little political willpower...

Guess we fell short.

DSK

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:57:04 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:42:56 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:25:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:30:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H wrote:
Wal-Mart's Colorado Unit Rejects Union

3 minutes ago

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE:WMT - news) on Friday said
workers at its Colorado tire shop have voted to reject union representation, a
step which deals another blow to efforts to unionize at the world's largest
retailer.

A Wal-Mart statement said tire and lube express associates at its Loveland
supercenter voted 17-1 to reject representation by the United Food & Commercial
Workers Union.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame. Wow, seventeen to one.

Wal-Crap's been closing its stores after employees vote for a union.

BTW, Herring, as a sub teacher, aren't you drawing the benefits
negotiated by a labor union?

Actually, in this state anyway, subs aren't part of the collective
bargaining agreement because they aren't subject to the same
educational requirements beyond having a basic degree qualification.

I don't think they are in any other state either, but I'm not sure of
that.

Are you paying your dues, or are you the typical Republican freeloader?

Subs in this state don't pay union dues.

That's also true of Virginia. Teachers don't pay union dues either, if they have
a little sense and don't get frightened into joining by some union hack.

No offense, but my wife is one of those "hacks" - a fairly important
one to boot - and she, along with others are trying to fix things
instead of hiding behind some notion of independence.

The good thing about negotiated contracts certain aspects of the
teaching/administrating a school can be defined - don't forget that
you don't have a lot of protection from an administration determined
to get you if they wish.

It's not a good ting to take a free ride John unless you are capable
of negotiating your own separate contract.

As I said, no offense.

Later,

Tom

No offense taken. Perhaps your wife employs techniques different than those I've
seen used on new teachers by older union reps who happen to also be teachers. I
don't agree that all who are receiving the pay are deserving of same. And, I've
seen that an administration that is determined can get rid of a teacher even
*with* the union representation.

I didn't fear the administrators and, in fact, got along very well with them,
even though I wrote several letters to our local paper.

I would *love* to see the unions get involved in fixing something, like student
discipline, rather than attempt to take credit for everything the school board
does that *is* helpful. Most of the union effort in this county seems directed
against the other union! (I.e., the NEA folks against the AFT folks.)

The local counties are all in competition for good teachers here. I think that
helps our pay (or what used to be my pay) more than the unions.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes