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"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... rick says of KMAN: ============== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. =============== No, you friggin' idiot, but our doctors DO KNOW whether these tests are required for further diagnosis to continue. IF the tests are deemed to be necessary, by medical professionals, I can assure you, they get done. ====================== In due time. Not necessarily when the doctor decides that the tests are warranted. That's the case, buffoon... Let's remember, many tests are in the "nice to have but not essential" category. Further, let's not overlook the fact that American patients are very often "over tested". Many tests done in the USA are done not for diagnostic purposes but, rather, for "cover your ass against possible future litigation" purposes. ====================== Again, the are tests that are not done without waits, whether they are life-threatening or not. Severe pain may not be immediately life threatening, but the constant dosing of pain killers to make the wait bearable can lead to other problems. Anecdotal: I took my daughter to the clinic in the nearby mall to have a doctor look at her soccer injury. An X-Ray was recommended. Today, after school, we went to the X-ray clinic, presented her medical plan number (for billing purposes), took a number, sat down, "waited" 20 minutes, and had the X-ray taken. Next door, others were going through the similar procedures for other diagnostic tests. No "waits"! Take a number. Wait (usually less than 30 minutes). Many satisfied patients every day. You're always on about "straw men", but that's no wonder: you're the one who constructs them. ================= Nope. I'm not the one relying on anecdotal, one person examples. frtzw906 |
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rick, so really have nothing to offer.
cu frtzw906 |
KMAN, I suggested to rick that we take this debate to another level as
he alluded to being interested in discussions beyond Canada versus USA comparisons. However, when I asked him for examples of what he deemed to be better systems, he reverted to an adversarial stance. I have to conclude that he actually knows nothing at all about healthcare. I would welcome a healthcare discussion. For example, I'd really welcome input from anyone who knows something about Finland. Over the last 4-5 years I've marvelled as Finland scores high on a variety of international comparisons -- health, education, quality of life, economy. I'd love to know how they're doing it. I doubt, however, that rick can be of much help in that regard. frtzw906 |
"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... ....Over the last 4-5 years I've marvelled as Finland scores high on a variety of international comparisons -- health, education, quality of life, economy. I'd love to know how they're doing it. They drink a lot. Wolfgang |
But Wolfgang, that applies to most of the nations in North Europe....
WOW! Eureka! I think you've got it! LOL. Thanks for the humor. frtzw906 |
"KMAN" wrote in message ... in article et, rick at wrote on 2/21/05 8:52 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... snippage... Who are they? When did they tell me this? ================ You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you claimed about getting in for any test right away? What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want right away. ================ Wellthere you go. Thanks for finally admitting there are wait lists... Huh? I never said nobody has to wait. I've mentioned at least a dozen times that it is possible someone would have to wait for a certain procedure. But so it is with any system. What I said was no one is dying waiting for medical care as has been alleged. =-=============== Which you have failed to refute the Canadian sites that say otherwise. However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm, tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait. ======================= That's part of the point, idiot. How do you know if it's an emergency without the test? You really are that stupid, aren't you? Don't be silly. We aren't talking about someone coming to the hospital and not getting any tests done. The type of tests where someone is waiting is where the medical issue is known and the situation is known to be non life-threatening. ===================== Your ideology is really entrenced, isn't it? There are 'life threatening' causes that can't be known without some tests. So, as long as you're walking and talking, you get to wait until it is life threatening, eh? As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a few that you have never backed up. This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up your claim. ==================== Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints... No hinting necessary weasel. ================= Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your stupidity. You haven't called me on anything. ================== Yes, your ignorant jingoistic chest-thumping, fool. More of your brilliance on display. ===================== No, more of the truth about your constant denial. How many? What are they coming for? Why? ======================= Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment was medically unsound. They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage your house to get the treatment that you need. ==================== More strawmen, marching to the tune of your ideology, eh? No, that's one of the things that gets mentioned most often. You asked what they say, and I told you. Maybe at least as often they mention how in Canada the doctor and institution are there to focus on your care, and in the US it feels like you are just a commodity being used to generate as much cash as possible. ===================== LOL Such altruistic doctors you have there. What a hoot! Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than you would like to treat something that is painful but not life-threatening. ===================== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. And, what isn't life-threatening at that very moment may be if you have to wait 2 years for the dianostic tests. It's too bad you are so busy engaging in name-calling and propping up your ego that you aren't willing to learn something. ===================== I have. I've learned that you are too jingoistic to step back and take a real look at your system. You're too engaged in making comparisions to others. You obviously know nothing about this, and you are making a joke of yourself. =============== tell that to the CBC, unions and Universities in Canada. they ahve the information, if you weren't too afraid to find out the truth. There is no one waiting to have their health problems diagnosed. ===================== BS People who are waiting (I don't know anyone myself who is waiting for any type of care, elective or otherwise) ================== And you're personally intamate with the health needs of ever Canadian, eh? My, maybe you should run for god. have known medical issues that are continually monitored. Just because someone has to wait for a certain type of scan doesn't mean they aren't still receiving medical care. ====================== care that might not be the best they could get, of passibly life threatening. As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely ranks better than the US And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are using. ================ LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems? You on the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble. Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people looking for a very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in Newfoundland are having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the statements about peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this goofy discussion. ========================== LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one and only case available to find is a hoot. It was your example. ================ Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping? What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one isolated case in Newfoundland. I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap. ================ Not according to som,e of your own media, unions, and universities, fool. A fool makes an accusation without evidence to support it. If you are alleging that Canadians are dying waiting to receive health care, prove it. Otherwise, you know exactly what you are. ==================== LOL Where's you proof fool? refute waht your own media, unions and Universties say. You haven't even tried. All you've done is thump your chest about how great your system is. We're # 30, we're #30!! Wow, what an acheivement! And there hasn't been one piece of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying while waiting. ==================== LOL Because YOU are afraid to research the data. Your idiocy would be exposed to yourself that way.. Yawn. More weasel words. Let's face facts, if you could possible post information to make you look a bit less stupid, you would do so. You can't because it doesn't exist. ============================= LOL Then you should post it fool. Come on. make me look like the idiot you have already shown yourself to be. Again, try your own media, unions, and universities. But we already know you are afraid to bring facts into your argument, eh? and both are in the 30s, from the top of best care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically pounding your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything, does it? This means, logically, at the other end of the scale a very rich person may indeed opt to seek care elsewhere. ================ Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an 'emergency' case. You have no clue. ===================== Yes, apparently more than you. There is no evidence of that. ==================== I've posted real data, from real sites. Perhaps so, but none to support your argument. ==================== LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension problems, don't you? There are wait times in every medical system. Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ===================== LOL I've already told you a number of times, try your own media, unions and universities. That you are too afraid to look, or too stupid to know how doesn't make the information any less available. You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines for Canadian health-care. If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency room someone is waiting, I have to agree. But no one is dying in a waiting line. ====================== An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go elsewhere for treatment. No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ======================= Yes, I have. You choose not to accept it because iof your jingoistic chest thumping. I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday. Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care. Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the problem? ====================== ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is still in control, rather that rationality. You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work here, so I was sharing with you a real life example. ====================== LOL Yet when I shared 'one' example of the other extreme it was somenow not pertenent. It was "pertenent" in that it shows that in a geographically isolated area of Canada with a small population the standard of care is a behind what is available elsewhere. ========================== LOL But somehow your own 'one' example proves that the rest of the country is fine. You really are stupid enough to believe that, aren't you? That's unfortunate, and it is something all Canadians want improved. But your example does nothing to demonstrate that people in Canada are dying waiting for treatment as has been alleged. ===================== Then it should be easy to disprove those claims by your own media, unions and universities, shouldn't it? Seems you have a bizarre notion of 'real life' examples. I gave you other real life examples as well. I fully acknowledged your example. ============== That was plural fool. The fact that there is no evidence to sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines should of course been enough for you. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't provided any. Thus far they are only in your mind. ================ Again, yes I have. You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated situation in Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health care on some spot in Alaska. ===================== Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool. Start at the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them. They're in Canada. I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I have at least a partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy ideas. The secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W. Bush was the Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute thinks about Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective advice on handguns. Only worse! ROFL ==================== They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion. Heehee. You are so silly. =============== Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon. At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws! ======================= The data is there. that you reject it because of the messenger says more about your ideology than your intelligence. Christ, I can go to this or that institute that has data to prove that the Holocaust never happened. The messenger is hardly irrelevant. This has nothing to do with ideology for me. The Fraser Institute, on the other hand, is well known and commonly ridiculed for their voracious right-wing ideology. ========================== ROTFLMAO And you as independent as the driven snow. Stop, you're killing me!! Oh well, at least i can get tested right away, eh? |
in article et, rick at
wrote on 2/21/05 11:37 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... in article et, rick at wrote on 2/21/05 8:52 PM: "KMAN" wrote in message ... snippage... Who are they? When did they tell me this? ================ You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you claimed about getting in for any test right away? What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want right away. ================ Wellthere you go. Thanks for finally admitting there are wait lists... Huh? I never said nobody has to wait. I've mentioned at least a dozen times that it is possible someone would have to wait for a certain procedure. But so it is with any system. What I said was no one is dying waiting for medical care as has been alleged. =-=============== Which you have failed to refute the Canadian sites that say otherwise. What "Canadian sites that say otherwise" you haven't provided any. However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm, tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait. ======================= That's part of the point, idiot. How do you know if it's an emergency without the test? You really are that stupid, aren't you? Don't be silly. We aren't talking about someone coming to the hospital and not getting any tests done. The type of tests where someone is waiting is where the medical issue is known and the situation is known to be non life-threatening. ===================== Your ideology is really entrenced, isn't it? There are 'life threatening' causes that can't be known without some tests. So, as long as you're walking and talking, you get to wait until it is life threatening, eh? Unless you are suggesting that every single human being should be receiving every single medical test possible every single minute of the day, your line of argument here is goofy at best. As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a few that you have never backed up. This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up your claim. ==================== Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints... No hinting necessary weasel. ================= Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your stupidity. You haven't called me on anything. ================== Yes, your ignorant jingoistic chest-thumping, fool. More of your brilliance on display. ===================== No, more of the truth about your constant denial. Denial of what? Show me some facts that I have denied. Please quote. How many? What are they coming for? Why? ======================= Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment was medically unsound. They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage your house to get the treatment that you need. ==================== More strawmen, marching to the tune of your ideology, eh? No, that's one of the things that gets mentioned most often. You asked what they say, and I told you. Maybe at least as often they mention how in Canada the doctor and institution are there to focus on your care, and in the US it feels like you are just a commodity being used to generate as much cash as possible. ===================== LOL Such altruistic doctors you have there. What a hoot! The Canadian medical system enables doctors to care more about healing than earning than you would find in a profit-driven system. Not to say that doctors here are hurting for cash. Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than you would like to treat something that is painful but not life-threatening. ===================== Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not life-threatening without some of these teats. And, what isn't life-threatening at that very moment may be if you have to wait 2 years for the dianostic tests. It's too bad you are so busy engaging in name-calling and propping up your ego that you aren't willing to learn something. ===================== I have. I've learned that you are too jingoistic to step back and take a real look at your system. You're too engaged in making comparisions to others. I have direct experience with both systems. I prefer the Canadian system for practical as well as ethical reasons. You obviously know nothing about this, and you are making a joke of yourself. =============== tell that to the CBC, unions and Universities in Canada. they ahve the information, if you weren't too afraid to find out the truth. Show us the truth. We are waiting! There is no one waiting to have their health problems diagnosed. ===================== BS Show us the truth! We are waiting. People who are waiting (I don't know anyone myself who is waiting for any type of care, elective or otherwise) ================== And you're personally intamate with the health needs of ever Canadian, eh? My, maybe you should run for god. I've got a pretty good sampling of contacts at my disposal. I also used to manage a national network of educators and health care was a common topic. have known medical issues that are continually monitored. Just because someone has to wait for a certain type of scan doesn't mean they aren't still receiving medical care. ====================== care that might not be the best they could get, of passibly life threatening. The best you could get would be constant testing and monitoring every minute of the day. This is definitely not happening, here or anywhere else. But getting back to what actually brought me into this discussion, Canadians are not dying in line waiting for medical care. And you can't present any evidence that they are, because it doesn't exist. As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely ranks better than the US And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are using. ================ LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems? You on the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble. Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people looking for a very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in Newfoundland are having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the statements about peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this goofy discussion. ========================== LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one and only case available to find is a hoot. It was your example. ================ Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping? What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one isolated case in Newfoundland. I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap. ================ Not according to som,e of your own media, unions, and universities, fool. A fool makes an accusation without evidence to support it. If you are alleging that Canadians are dying waiting to receive health care, prove it. Otherwise, you know exactly what you are. ==================== LOL Where's you proof fool? refute waht your own media, unions and Universties say. There's nothing to refute. They don't say as you allege. You haven't even tried. All you've done is thump your chest about how great your system is. We're # 30, we're #30!! Wow, what an acheivement! There's nothing to refute. You haven't presented any evidence to substantiate your position, because there isn't any. And there hasn't been one piece of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying while waiting. ==================== LOL Because YOU are afraid to research the data. Your idiocy would be exposed to yourself that way.. Yawn. More weasel words. Let's face facts, if you could possible post information to make you look a bit less stupid, you would do so. You can't because it doesn't exist. ============================= LOL Then you should post it fool. Come on. make me look like the idiot You've managed that all on your own. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you. I am realizing that your rude and aggressive behaviour is all just part of your weakness. you have already shown yourself to be. Again, try your own media, unions, and universities. But we already know you are afraid to bring facts into your argument, eh? I didn't make the allegation that Canadians are dying in line waiting for medical care. It's obviously up to the person making the allegation to present evidence. I'd be happy to refute any such evidence, but none has been provided. That is because none exists. and both are in the 30s, from the top of best care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically pounding your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything, does it? This means, logically, at the other end of the scale a very rich person may indeed opt to seek care elsewhere. ================ Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an 'emergency' case. You have no clue. ===================== Yes, apparently more than you. There is no evidence of that. ==================== I've posted real data, from real sites. Perhaps so, but none to support your argument. ==================== LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension problems, don't you? There are wait times in every medical system. Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ===================== LOL I've already told you a number of times, try your own media, unions and universities. I have. No such evidence exists. That you are too afraid to look, or too stupid to know how doesn't make the information any less available. It does not exist. You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines for Canadian health-care. If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency room someone is waiting, I have to agree. But no one is dying in a waiting line. ====================== An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go elsewhere for treatment. No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't shown us any. ======================= Yes, I have. You choose not to accept it because iof your jingoistic chest thumping. You have not shown any evidence that anyone in Canada has died waiting in line for care. I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday. Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care. Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the problem? ====================== ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is still in control, rather that rationality. You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work here, so I was sharing with you a real life example. ====================== LOL Yet when I shared 'one' example of the other extreme it was somenow not pertenent. It was "pertenent" in that it shows that in a geographically isolated area of Canada with a small population the standard of care is a behind what is available elsewhere. ========================== LOL But somehow your own 'one' example proves that the rest of the country is fine. You really are stupid enough to believe that, aren't you? The allegation is that people in Canada are dying in waiting lines. You've provided no evidence whatsoever to that effect. That's unfortunate, and it is something all Canadians want improved. But your example does nothing to demonstrate that people in Canada are dying waiting for treatment as has been alleged. ===================== Then it should be easy to disprove those claims by your own media, unions and universities, shouldn't it? Unfortunately I can't find any university, union, or media source that says "Rick Etter's ridiculous allegations are false." I also haven't found any evidence from those sources that proves George W Bush is not in fact a cockroach. Seems you have a bizarre notion of 'real life' examples. I gave you other real life examples as well. I fully acknowledged your example. ============== That was plural fool. I've acknowledged all of the information you provided, none of which does anything to prove the allegation that people are dying in wait lines. The fact that there is no evidence to sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines should of course been enough for you. ================== Not according to sources in your own country. You haven't provided any. Thus far they are only in your mind. ================ Again, yes I have. Please quote from one of your sources that says people are dying in wait lines and I will be happy to apologize. You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated situation in Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health care on some spot in Alaska. ===================== Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool. Start at the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them. They're in Canada. I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I have at least a partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy ideas. The secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W. Bush was the Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute thinks about Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective advice on handguns. Only worse! ROFL ==================== They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion. Heehee. You are so silly. =============== Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon. At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws! ======================= The data is there. that you reject it because of the messenger says more about your ideology than your intelligence. Christ, I can go to this or that institute that has data to prove that the Holocaust never happened. The messenger is hardly irrelevant. This has nothing to do with ideology for me. The Fraser Institute, on the other hand, is well known and commonly ridiculed for their voracious right-wing ideology. ========================== ROTFLMAO And you as independent as the driven snow. Stop, you're killing me!! Oh well, at least i can get tested right away, eh? I think some testing is definitely in order, and I think you are right on this one...pay whatever you need to pay to move to the front of the line. Your need for help is urgent. |
"BCITORGB" wrote in message ups.com... rick, so really have nothing to offer. ===============\ LOL Unlike you and kman I have provided information. You have not. Guess we know now who is tap dancing around, eh? cu frtzw906 |
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