Onward Christian Soldiers
 

In article et,
says...

Glad to read that you've finally got it. What were your expectations? Duh!

Butch

Yeah, just didn't give the Neochristians enough credit for having tin
hearts and straw for brains.

jps

Doug Kanter wrote:



Also at dinner tonight, my father demonstrate that he, like the others, will
permit himself to hear nothing negative about his president. I wasn't in the
mood to discuss politics, but he kept pressing to do so. He pointed out that
I still have a job because of Nookular Boy. Being an equal opportunity
aggravator, I reminded dad that our company's profits are getting hammered
by the price of oil, and asked him if he thought that was a good thing, or a
bad thing. Wrong question. The dinner went downhill from there. :-)



As the saying goes, "It takes two to Tango". It's too bad everyone
seems to think they have to win, when both parties can given a little
effort. Maybe a course like

http://www.bbll.com/ch22.html

should be included in every high school and college curriculum.

Eisboch

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 05:27:48 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:



Also at dinner tonight, my father demonstrate that he, like the others, will
permit himself to hear nothing negative about his president. I wasn't in the
mood to discuss politics, but he kept pressing to do so. He pointed out that
I still have a job because of Nookular Boy. Being an equal opportunity
aggravator, I reminded dad that our company's profits are getting hammered
by the price of oil, and asked him if he thought that was a good thing, or a
bad thing. Wrong question. The dinner went downhill from there. :-)



As the saying goes, "It takes two to Tango". It's too bad everyone
seems to think they have to win, when both parties can given a little
effort. Maybe a course like

http://www.bbll.com/ch22.html

should be included in every high school and college curriculum.

You beat me to it!!!!

I've always taken the approach that any discussion is a series of
negotiable points. Once I can get a point of agreement, even if it's
only to discuss things quietly and respectfully, it's a start and
eventually, we can achieve some sort equilibrium and gain some
knowledge of what the other individuals want out of the discussion.

I'm living proof that it works - I lived in a house full of pinko
commies (unfortunately all related to me) and still live with one.
:)

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I'm living proof that it works - I lived in a house full of pinko
commies (unfortunately all related to me) and still live with one.
:)

Later,

Tom


That's funny!

I think I could deal with a pinko commie. Try a horse lover if you want
a challenge.

Eisboch

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:19:06 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I'm living proof that it works - I lived in a house full of pinko
commies (unfortunately all related to me) and still live with one.
:)

Later,

Tom


That's funny!

I think I could deal with a pinko commie. Try a horse lover if you want
a challenge.

I've often wondered who is dumber - the horses or the people who own
them.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:



I've often wondered who is dumber - the horses or the people who own
them.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown


Gotta be careful here. Mrs. Eisboch reads this NG once in a while.

Eisboch

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:32:28 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:



I've often wondered who is dumber - the horses or the people who own
them.

Gotta be careful here. Mrs. Eisboch reads this NG once in a while.

Then I will amend.

Horses or SOME of the people who own them.

Later,

Tom

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:37:19 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:



I've often wondered who is dumber - the horses or the people who own
them.

Gotta be careful here. Mrs. Eisboch reads this NG once in a while.

Horses are nice to rent at a nearby stable...for the half-day.

I had a mule once - great animal.

Later,

Tom

Harry Krause wrote:



Horses are nice to rent at a nearby stable...for the half-day.



I got brave a few months ago while Mrs. E. and I were having a cup of
coffee and discussing future plans. I mentioned that after 34 years of
marriage, raising three kids and being pretty much retired from work, we
now had many options open to us. Her horses, I suggested, are really an
anchor and limit our freedom to travel and explore new worlds. The
discussion went downhill from there until, in frustration, I said, "So,
I guess it's me or the horses, huh?"

Mrs. E. suggested that I don't make her make that choice.

End of discussion.

There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as
leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat.

Eisboch

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:50:40 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:



Horses are nice to rent at a nearby stable...for the half-day.



I got brave a few months ago while Mrs. E. and I were having a cup of
coffee and discussing future plans. I mentioned that after 34 years of
marriage, raising three kids and being pretty much retired from work, we
now had many options open to us. Her horses, I suggested, are really an
anchor and limit our freedom to travel and explore new worlds. The
discussion went downhill from there until, in frustration, I said, "So,
I guess it's me or the horses, huh?"

Mrs. E. suggested that I don't make her make that choice.

End of discussion.

There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as
leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat.

LOL!!

I do much the same, only it's redecorating and attending social
events. As long as I do so, everything is fine. :)

I still think I got the bad end of the deal though. My basic world
view is that everybody is suspect until proven innocent, intelligent
or acceptable. :)

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


How you can group all Muslims is laughable not to mention ignorant.

Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of the recent
terrorists that we're fighting now are Muslims. To deny the influence
of that faith on their actions, is being ignorant.

Stumped by set theory in junior high school?

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:



Also at dinner tonight, my father demonstrate that he, like the others,
will
permit himself to hear nothing negative about his president. I wasn't in
the
mood to discuss politics, but he kept pressing to do so. He pointed out
that
I still have a job because of Nookular Boy. Being an equal opportunity
aggravator, I reminded dad that our company's profits are getting
hammered
by the price of oil, and asked him if he thought that was a good thing,
or a
bad thing. Wrong question. The dinner went downhill from there. :-)



As the saying goes, "It takes two to Tango". It's too bad everyone
seems to think they have to win, when both parties can given a little
effort. Maybe a course like

http://www.bbll.com/ch22.html

should be included in every high school and college curriculum.

Eisboch

Actually, that's how I conduct 99% of my life. But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.

Doug Kanter wrote:



Actually, that's how I conduct 99% of my life. But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.



I understand. Keep the faith, but also keep the harmony.

Eisboch

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:58:03 -0500, Eisboch
wrote:

Doug Kanter wrote:



Actually, that's how I conduct 99% of my life. But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.

I understand. Keep the faith, but also keep the harmony.

Heh - I read Doug's post and got a giggle out of it.

Here in Casa del Weirdo, the kids and wife just gave up. They finally
realized that I'm totally incorrigible and not salvageable..

Also, I just do things to tweak 'em a little - keeps 'em on their
toes. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

Doug Kanter wrote:
.... But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.

Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious
that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour
improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you.

DSK

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:05:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .


How you can group all Muslims is laughable not to mention ignorant.

Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of the recent
terrorists that we're fighting now are Muslims. To deny the influence
of that faith on their actions, is being ignorant.

Stumped by set theory in junior high school?


Huh?

Dave

Dave Hall wrote:


Those of us who sit on the sidelines and throw out criticisms without
being privvy to ALL of the facts, are doing ourselves and our country
a huge disservice.

Dave

The main criticism that I have about GWB is his insistence that we
should spread democracy throughout the Arab world. We have no right to
do so.

Requiring adherence of an aggressive nation (after defeat) to a set of
approved and dictated UN conditions, to which the defeated nation agreed
to, is an entirely different matter. There is no point in imposing the
conditions if they aren't enforced.

Eisboch

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:29:47 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:


It's this kind of thinking that resulted in over 110,000
Japanese-Americans being "relocated" at the beginning of Wo rldWarII.

When you are at war, you have to cover your bases.

Cover your bases? By interning American citizens?

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:05:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .


How you can group all Muslims is laughable not to mention ignorant.

Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of the recent
terrorists that we're fighting now are Muslims. To deny the influence
of that faith on their actions, is being ignorant.

Stumped by set theory in junior high school?


Huh?

Dave


Just as I thought. Go sit in the corner and drink your chocolate milk,
child.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:34:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:05:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .


How you can group all Muslims is laughable not to mention ignorant.

Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of the recent
terrorists that we're fighting now are Muslims. To deny the influence
of that faith on their actions, is being ignorant.

Stumped by set theory in junior high school?

Huh?

Just as I thought. Go sit in the corner and drink your chocolate milk,
child.

That wasn't fair Doug. :)

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:34:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:05:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .


How you can group all Muslims is laughable not to mention ignorant.

Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of the recent
terrorists that we're fighting now are Muslims. To deny the
influence
of that faith on their actions, is being ignorant.

Stumped by set theory in junior high school?

Huh?

Just as I thought. Go sit in the corner and drink your chocolate milk,
child.

That wasn't fair Doug. :)

For Dave, it's sometimes the only possible response.

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Doug Kanter wrote:
.... But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground
down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.

Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious
that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour
improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you.

DSK


I should elaborate. You'll love this.

Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social
engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to
take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had
to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM.

Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at
that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said
"We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung
up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social
engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a
car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the
dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables
from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down.

Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic -
something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like
that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon
themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included:

1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You
just need to get over it.

2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which
clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things?

3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by
manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way.

Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the
rental car.

Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming
to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be
in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to
the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by
6:10".

This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said
"I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why,
in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other
salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly
explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible
reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside
the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done.
I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog
would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical.
Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over
nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came
over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've
got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost
10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows".

Life's weird.

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:41:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
.... But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground
down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.

Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious
that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour
improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you.

DSK


I should elaborate. You'll love this.

Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social
engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to
take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had
to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM.

Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at
that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said
"We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung
up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social
engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a
car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the
dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables
from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down.

Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic -
something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like
that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon
themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included:

1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You
just need to get over it.

2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which
clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things?

3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by
manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way.

Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the
rental car.

Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming
to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be
in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to
the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by
6:10".

This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said
"I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why,
in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other
salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly
explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible
reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside
the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done.
I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog
would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical.
Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over
nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came
over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've
got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost
10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows".

Life's weird.


That is an interesting story. Sounds like your Dad is a pretty tough and
good man. I wish my kid's would have gone into engineering so they could
work for me. I guess I would probably be tougher on them than any of my
other employees just like your Dad is tough on you.

Bless you both.



Regards
John S

Kerry shot his goose in Ohio and had it cooked there too!

"John S" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:41:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
.... But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground
down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.

Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious
that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the
behaviour
improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you.

DSK


I should elaborate. You'll love this.

Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social
engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had
to
take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport,
had
to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM.

Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab
at
that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said
"We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....".
Hung
up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social
engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could
rent a
car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the
dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables
from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down.

Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic -
something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like
that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon
themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included:

1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You
just need to get over it.

2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and
which
clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things?

3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by
manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way.

Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of
the
rental car.

Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are
coming
to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll
be
in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back
to
the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by
6:10".

This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and
said
"I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked
why,
in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the
other
salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I
calmly
explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible
reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside
the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd
done.
I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a
dog
would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical.
Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over
nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager
came
over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress
you've
got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for
almost
10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows".

Life's weird.


That is an interesting story. Sounds like your Dad is a pretty tough and
good man. I wish my kid's would have gone into engineering so they could
work for me. I guess I would probably be tougher on them than any of my
other employees just like your Dad is tough on you.


Tough would mean insisting on better business practices. That's an issue
which is in no way related to this one.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:37:19 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:



I've often wondered who is dumber - the horses or the people who own
them.

Gotta be careful here. Mrs. Eisboch reads this NG once in a while.

Horses are nice to rent at a nearby stable...for the half-day.

I had a mule once - great animal.

Later,

Tom


I work for one.

"jps" wrote in message

Bush fared best among those who said moral values were the most
important issue, and among those who said terrorism two of the top
issues.

You guys can spin this any way you want if it makes you feel better. The
"moral values" term was put into the exit polls by someone, and the left is
now seizing on it to rationalize everything.

Paint it as a victory for religious zealots if you wish, but the facts and
the reality remain clear to those who observe and think. There is no
looming theocracy, no mandated church attendance, no crackdown of thought
police. These are the rantings of the whackos.

The plain truth is that the preponderance of the American People -- ordinary
folk who work, pay their taxes, and try to raise their kids into good,
responsible citizens -- have observed the direction in which their country
has been drifting through a variety of social issues, and stood up to say
"Enough"! Enough of having norms and mores dictated to us by the North-East
"intelligentsia", Academia, and Hollywood. Enough of abortion on demand as
a simple and convenient birth control device. Enough of the idea that my 13
year-old daughter ought to be able to procure a government funded abortion
without any communication at all with us, her parents. Enough of those who
would invoke expensive and generous government support programs for those
merely without the inclination or self-control to protect themselves.
Enough of those who would prohibit a simple Christian prayer at the start of
the school day and remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of
Allegiance in an overwhelmingly Christian nation, all under the guise of
constitutionally required "separation", but enforce involuntary in-school
"familiarization" with the religions of other. Enough of these so-called
recording "artists" who saturate our children with lyrics about f-ing their
bitches and killing cops, and are then put forth as the real American
character and as legitimate commentators on the national social environment.
Enough of this high-blown arrogance that would have us as ignorant country
bumpkins solely on the strength of our disagreement with your
pseudo-sophisticated notions that every sort of behavior is OK, that no one
should be held accountable for anything they do. We are good people, with
plain truths and solid values. There are more of us than there are of you,
and our numbers are growing. We will no longer be dictated to by
self-impressed cousins.

This is the message of 2004. The message that the Democrat Party is trying
desperately to mask and ignore, for in it, absent compelling change, lies
their demise.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"jps" wrote in message

Bush fared best among those who said moral values were the most
important issue, and among those who said terrorism two of the top
issues.

You guys can spin this any way you want if it makes you feel better. The
"moral values" term was put into the exit polls by someone, and the left
is
now seizing on it to rationalize everything.

Paint it as a victory for religious zealots if you wish, but the facts and
the reality remain clear to those who observe and think. There is no
looming theocracy, no mandated church attendance, no crackdown of thought
police. These are the rantings of the whackos.

The plain truth is that the preponderance of the American People --
ordinary
folk who work, pay their taxes, and try to raise their kids into good,
responsible citizens -- have observed the direction in which their country
has been drifting through a variety of social issues, and stood up to say
"Enough"! Enough of having norms and mores dictated to us by the
North-East
"intelligentsia", Academia, and Hollywood. Enough of abortion on demand
as
a simple and convenient birth control device. Enough of the idea that my
13
year-old daughter ought to be able to procure a government funded abortion
without any communication at all with us, her parents. Enough of those
who
would invoke expensive and generous government support programs for those
merely without the inclination or self-control to protect themselves.
Enough of those who would prohibit a simple Christian prayer at the start
of
the school day and remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of
Allegiance in an overwhelmingly Christian nation, all under the guise of
constitutionally required "separation", but enforce involuntary in-school
"familiarization" with the religions of other. Enough of these so-called
recording "artists" who saturate our children with lyrics about f-ing
their
bitches and killing cops, and are then put forth as the real American
character and as legitimate commentators on the national social
environment.
Enough of this high-blown arrogance that would have us as ignorant country
bumpkins solely on the strength of our disagreement with your
pseudo-sophisticated notions that every sort of behavior is OK, that no
one
should be held accountable for anything they do. We are good people, with
plain truths and solid values. There are more of us than there are of
you,
and our numbers are growing. We will no longer be dictated to by
self-impressed cousins.

This is the message of 2004. The message that the Democrat Party is
trying
desperately to mask and ignore, for in it, absent compelling change, lies
their demise.



99.9% of what you've mentioned will never be dealt with by any president.
One will pay lip service to these things, but will do nothing. And
logically, if he *did* take the time to deal with these things, it would be
obvious to any thinking person that he was ignoring things that really cost
lives.

On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:39:25 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message

Bush fared best among those who said moral values were the most
important issue, and among those who said terrorism two of the top
issues.

You guys can spin this any way you want if it makes you feel better. The
"moral values" term was put into the exit polls by someone, and the left is
now seizing on it to rationalize everything.

Paint it as a victory for religious zealots if you wish, but the facts and
the reality remain clear to those who observe and think. There is no
looming theocracy, no mandated church attendance, no crackdown of thought
police. These are the rantings of the whackos.

The plain truth is that the preponderance of the American People -- ordinary
folk who work, pay their taxes, and try to raise their kids into good,
responsible citizens -- have observed the direction in which their country
has been drifting through a variety of social issues, and stood up to say
"Enough"! Enough of having norms and mores dictated to us by the North-East
"intelligentsia", Academia, and Hollywood. Enough of abortion on demand as
a simple and convenient birth control device. Enough of the idea that my 13
year-old daughter ought to be able to procure a government funded abortion
without any communication at all with us, her parents. Enough of those who
would invoke expensive and generous government support programs for those
merely without the inclination or self-control to protect themselves.
Enough of those who would prohibit a simple Christian prayer at the start of
the school day and remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of
Allegiance in an overwhelmingly Christian nation, all under the guise of
constitutionally required "separation", but enforce involuntary in-school
"familiarization" with the religions of other. Enough of these so-called
recording "artists" who saturate our children with lyrics about f-ing their
bitches and killing cops, and are then put forth as the real American
character and as legitimate commentators on the national social environment.
Enough of this high-blown arrogance that would have us as ignorant country
bumpkins solely on the strength of our disagreement with your
pseudo-sophisticated notions that every sort of behavior is OK, that no one
should be held accountable for anything they do. We are good people, with
plain truths and solid values. There are more of us than there are of you,
and our numbers are growing. We will no longer be dictated to by
self-impressed cousins.

This is the message of 2004. The message that the Democrat Party is trying
desperately to mask and ignore, for in it, absent compelling change, lies
their demise.


Thanks for putting into words what so many of us feel in our hearts.



Regards
John S

Kerry shot his goose in Ohio and had it cooked there too!

Why is it not surprising that you have problems with all kinds of
relationships in your life?

I'd say you were a problem child and that there is more uncomplimentary
family history concerning yourself which is not being told, and which
has not yet been resolved.

-- Charlie


Doug Kanter wrote:

I should elaborate. You'll love this.

Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social
engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to
take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had
to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM.

Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at
that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said
"We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung
up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social
engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a
car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the
dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables
from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down.

Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic -
something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like
that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon
themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included:

1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You
just need to get over it.

2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which
clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things?

3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by
manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way.

Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the
rental car.

Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming
to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be
in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to
the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by
6:10".

This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said
"I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why,
in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other
salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly
explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible
reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside
the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done.
I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog
would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical.
Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over
nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came
over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've
got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost
10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows".

Life's weird.

Ha! :-)


"Charles" wrote in message
...
Why is it not surprising that you have problems with all kinds of
relationships in your life?

I'd say you were a problem child and that there is more uncomplimentary
family history concerning yourself which is not being told, and which
has not yet been resolved.

-- Charlie


Doug Kanter wrote:

I should elaborate. You'll love this.

Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social
engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had
to
take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport,
had
to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00
AM.

Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab
at
that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who
said
"We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....".
Hung
up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social
engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could
rent a
car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for
the
dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all
variables
from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down.

Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic -
something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like
that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon
themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included:

1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You
just need to get over it.

2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and
which
clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things?

3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by
manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way.

Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of
the
rental car.

Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are
coming
to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll
be
in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back
to
the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by
6:10".

This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and
said
"I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked
why,
in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the
other
salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I
calmly
explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible
reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting.
Outside
the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd
done.
I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a
dog
would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical.
Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over
nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager
came
over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress
you've
got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for
almost
10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows".

Life's weird.

"Charles" wrote in message
...
Why is it not surprising that you have problems with all kinds of
relationships in your life?

This sounds like a comment I once heard during a conversation where person A
was complaining about his car being broken into multiple times in his
driveway. Some new-age a-hole came along and said "Well, maybe you had just
owned those things for too long and it time for them to go to someone else".
:-)

Talk about pulling ideas outta your ass.....you can do better, Chucky.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:2v4tanF2hj9qsU1@uni-

This is a non-secular nation. .......

You want to clarify that just a bit, Mr. Hot-**** Professional Wordsmith?

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:2v4tanF2hj9qsU1@uni-

This is a non-secular nation. .......

You want to clarify that just a bit, Mr. Hot-**** Professional Wordsmith?

Here let me help you understand non-secular.:
------------------------------------------
non- pref. Not:
-----------------------------------------------
sec·u·lar adj.
1.. Worldly rather than spiritual.
2.. Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body: secular
music.
3.. Relating to or advocating secularism.
4.. Not bound by monastic restrictions, especially not belonging to a
religious order. Used of the clergy.
Harry is saying the US is spiritual, related to religion, or bound by
monastic retrictions.

I don't know if I agree with Harry but that is his thesis.

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:49:38 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Charles" wrote in message
...
Why is it not surprising that you have problems with all kinds of
relationships in your life?

This sounds like a comment I once heard during a conversation where person A
was complaining about his car being broken into multiple times in his
driveway. Some new-age a-hole came along and said "Well, maybe you had just
owned those things for too long and it time for them to go to someone else".

Like - cosmic man. That must be an example of nuanced thinking. :)

Talk about pulling ideas outta your ass.....you can do better, Chucky.

One of my children, who will never forget my reaction, said to me once
"But Dad, you can always buy a new set of tools - maybe somebody
needed them."

Said tools was my prized Snap-On roller chest loaded with Snap-On
tools I had been gathering since my Grandfather gave me my first set
of Snap-On wrenches forged in Kenosha, WI and I ain't EVEN going to
tell you how long ago that was.

To say that the air turned blue with expletives is an understatement.
Said child got quite an education that morning. :)

Epilog: The State Police actually caught the three perps in the act
trying to pawn some of the tools and I managed to get 98% of them
back.

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 06:46:10 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:49:38 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Charles" wrote in message
...
Why is it not surprising that you have problems with all kinds of
relationships in your life?

This sounds like a comment I once heard during a conversation where person A
was complaining about his car being broken into multiple times in his
driveway. Some new-age a-hole came along and said "Well, maybe you had just
owned those things for too long and it time for them to go to someone else".

Like - cosmic man. That must be an example of nuanced thinking. :)

Talk about pulling ideas outta your ass.....you can do better, Chucky.

One of my children, who will never forget my reaction, said to me once
"But Dad, you can always buy a new set of tools - maybe somebody
needed them."

Said tools was my prized Snap-On roller chest loaded with Snap-On
tools I had been gathering since my Grandfather gave me my first set
of Snap-On wrenches forged in Kenosha, WI and I ain't EVEN going to
tell you how long ago that was.

To say that the air turned blue with expletives is an understatement.
Said child got quite an education that morning. :)

Epilog: The State Police actually caught the three perps in the act
trying to pawn some of the tools and I managed to get 98% of them
back.

How did they lift that roller chest into their vehicle?

They broke open the box and took the tools - left the box tipped over
on the floor of my shop.

Later,

Tom

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:41:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Doug Kanter wrote:
.... But, my dad has a thing about
control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground
down a
bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him.

Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious
that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour
improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you.

DSK


I should elaborate. You'll love this.

Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social
engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to
take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had
to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM.

Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at
that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said
"We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung
up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social
engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a
car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the
dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables
from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down.

Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic -
something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like
that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon
themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included:

1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You
just need to get over it.

2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which
clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things?

3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by
manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way.

Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the
rental car.

Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming
to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be
in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to
the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by
6:10".

This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said
"I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why,
in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other
salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly
explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible
reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside
the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done.
I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog
would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical.
Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over
nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came
over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've
got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost
10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows".

Life's weird.


Sounds like your dad has a very controlling personality, almost as bad
as my wife. It also sounds as though you have developed coping
mechanisms, as I have with my wife. Just be glad you don't have to
live with your dad!

I know that this is a psychological disorder, and can probably be
helped with therapy. However, controlling personality types don't
(obviously) like anyone suggesting they go to therapy. I don't know
what the solution is.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

I think you've got it. I don't think they'll like it though. It's not
'off the wall' enough.

On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:39:25 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message

Bush fared best among those who said moral values were the most
important issue, and among those who said terrorism two of the top
issues.

You guys can spin this any way you want if it makes you feel better. The
"moral values" term was put into the exit polls by someone, and the left is
now seizing on it to rationalize everything.

Paint it as a victory for religious zealots if you wish, but the facts and
the reality remain clear to those who observe and think. There is no
looming theocracy, no mandated church attendance, no crackdown of thought
police. These are the rantings of the whackos.

The plain truth is that the preponderance of the American People -- ordinary
folk who work, pay their taxes, and try to raise their kids into good,
responsible citizens -- have observed the direction in which their country
has been drifting through a variety of social issues, and stood up to say
"Enough"! Enough of having norms and mores dictated to us by the North-East
"intelligentsia", Academia, and Hollywood. Enough of abortion on demand as
a simple and convenient birth control device. Enough of the idea that my 13
year-old daughter ought to be able to procure a government funded abortion
without any communication at all with us, her parents. Enough of those who
would invoke expensive and generous government support programs for those
merely without the inclination or self-control to protect themselves.
Enough of those who would prohibit a simple Christian prayer at the start of
the school day and remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of
Allegiance in an overwhelmingly Christian nation, all under the guise of
constitutionally required "separation", but enforce involuntary in-school
"familiarization" with the religions of other. Enough of these so-called
recording "artists" who saturate our children with lyrics about f-ing their
bitches and killing cops, and are then put forth as the real American
character and as legitimate commentators on the national social environment.
Enough of this high-blown arrogance that would have us as ignorant country
bumpkins solely on the strength of our disagreement with your
pseudo-sophisticated notions that every sort of behavior is OK, that no one
should be held accountable for anything they do. We are good people, with
plain truths and solid values. There are more of us than there are of you,
and our numbers are growing. We will no longer be dictated to by
self-impressed cousins.

This is the message of 2004. The message that the Democrat Party is trying
desperately to mask and ignore, for in it, absent compelling change, lies
their demise.


John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:23:28 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:2v4tanF2hj9qsU1@uni-

This is a non-secular nation. .......

You want to clarify that just a bit, Mr. Hot-**** Professional Wordsmith?


Let's see. If secular means 'non-religious', then non-secular would
mean non-non-religious but religious. So, Harry is finally seeing the
light. Good to hear. That's almost like having a Doctor Doctor in the
family.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Doug Kanter wrote:

"Charles" wrote in message
...
Why is it not surprising that you have problems with all kinds of
relationships in your life?

This sounds like a comment I once heard during a conversation where person A
was complaining about his car being broken into multiple times in his
driveway. Some new-age a-hole came along and said "Well, maybe you had just
owned those things for too long and it time for them to go to someone else".
:-)

Talk about pulling ideas outta your ass.....you can do better, Chucky.

You really believe your little analogy explains your problems with
relationships in your life?

You've given ample gratuitous evidence (family, wife, neighbors) that
you struggle to make, maintain, and keep relationships with other people.

Same malady which krause suffers from also.

-- Charlie

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:31:44 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

It's going to be fun to watch America squander its future.

=============================

That's irresponsible to put it mildly.