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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:50:40 -0500, Eisboch
wrote: There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat. ========================================= That's one approach. Maybe you could convince her that "horse power" would be better. :-) I've always thought it interesting the way some women get attached to horses in such a passionate way. There's probably a psychological study or two hiding there someplace. |
On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:39:25 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote: Enough of those who would prohibit a simple Christian prayer at the start of the school day and remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance in an overwhelmingly Christian nation, all under the guise of constitutionally required "separation", but enforce involuntary in-school "familiarization" with the religions of other. ===================================== When I was 7 or 8 years old I was smart enough to understand separation of church and state. That was in the 50s. Interesting how so many people just don't get it for one reason or another. Religion has no place in government, or vice versa. Seems simple enough to me. |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message . When I was 7 or 8 years old I was smart enough to understand separation of church and state. . No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given the matter much observation or thought since. |
On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:48:10 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote: No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given the matter much observation or thought since. ========================================= OK. Please explain where I'm remiss. |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:31:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: It's going to be fun to watch America squander its future. ============================= That's irresponsible to put it mildly. You're right. It's irresponsible for a country to squander its future. |
"Charles" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "Charles" wrote in message ... Why is it not surprising that you have problems with all kinds of relationships in your life? This sounds like a comment I once heard during a conversation where person A was complaining about his car being broken into multiple times in his driveway. Some new-age a-hole came along and said "Well, maybe you had just owned those things for too long and it time for them to go to someone else". :-) Talk about pulling ideas outta your ass.....you can do better, Chucky. You really believe your little analogy explains your problems with relationships in your life? You've given ample gratuitous evidence (family, wife, neighbors) that you struggle to make, maintain, and keep relationships with other people. Same malady which krause suffers from also. -- Charlie zzzzzzzzz.......... Another amateur psychiatrist. :-) Get a life, Chuckie. |
"JohnH" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:41:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "DSK" wrote in message . .. Doug Kanter wrote: .... But, my dad has a thing about control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him. Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you. DSK I should elaborate. You'll love this. Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM. Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said "We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down. Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic - something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included: 1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You just need to get over it. 2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things? 3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way. Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the rental car. Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by 6:10". This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said "I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why, in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done. I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical. Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost 10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows". Life's weird. Sounds like your dad has a very controlling personality, almost as bad as my wife. It also sounds as though you have developed coping mechanisms, as I have with my wife. Just be glad you don't have to live with your dad! I know that this is a psychological disorder, and can probably be helped with therapy. However, controlling personality types don't (obviously) like anyone suggesting they go to therapy. I don't know what the solution is. John H The solution is to shock them, John. Buckets of cold water over their heads. |
"John Gaquin" wrote in message ... "Wayne.B" wrote in message . When I was 7 or 8 years old I was smart enough to understand separation of church and state. . No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given the matter much observation or thought since. Try looking at it from the viewpoint of the original Americans and it might be easier to understand the problem. This assumes, of course, that you realize the original Americans were pagans, not Christians. |
There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as
leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat. My wife does the same thing, in reverse. Whenever she decides she wants something in the "talk about it first" category, she merely calculates the number of "moorage months" involved in her prospective purchase. Darn, she's shrewd. In fact she's very shrewd. I love dogs, but I have a cat instead. My wife *hates* dogs. She has said, "It's me, or a dog." I tease her that when I come home with a dog, she'll know its time to pack her stuff...(more likely she'd pack mine.) She's smart enough to know that she doesn't want to present, "It's me or the boat." There are some things, like a dog, that a guy could live without..... |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:01:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:31:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: It's going to be fun to watch America squander its future. ============================= That's irresponsible to put it mildly. You're right. It's irresponsible for a country to squander its future. ======================== Or enjoy watching it. |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:06:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: Try looking at it from the viewpoint of the original Americans and it might be easier to understand the problem. This assumes, of course, that you realize the original Americans were pagans, not Christians. ============================================= The cynical definition of a pagan is someone who believes in a different imaginary friend. The founding fathers of the constitution had seen quite enough of state enforced religious practices when they started writing. Wise men. |
No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given the matter much observation or thought since. You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do, one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom to practice the religion of their choice. Forcing kids to recite a "Christian prayer" at the beginning of a school day has no place in a school that exists to serve the interests of all students. Why should devout Jewish families pay taxes to support public schools where their kids will be compelled, (at a minimum through peer pressure), to pray to Jesus, or Virgin Mary, and/or a host of Christian saints? Are Buddhist, Muslim, Wiccan, or Hindu taxpayers less entitled to respect for their beliefs in the education system than Christian taxpayers? Should we give the non-Christian taxpayers a discount, if we ask the kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school day? Is it the proper role of the public schools to teach the children of atheists that their parents are "wrong"? Many of our ancestors came to this country because they found being forced to worship God in a manner dictated by the numerical majority in a society, rather than by faith and sincere conscious, unacceptable. It is just as unacceptable in 21st Century America as it was in 18th Century Britain. Did you kid ever come to you and say, "But, Dad, most of the other kids are doing....(insert stupid thing here)..."? Your answer then still applies. "Just because a majority does something, that does not make it right." You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school day? There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't supported by tax dollars nor should they be. |
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Gould 0738 wrote:
There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat. My wife does the same thing, in reverse. Whenever she decides she wants something in the "talk about it first" category, she merely calculates the number of "moorage months" involved in her prospective purchase. Darn, she's shrewd. In fact she's very shrewd. I love dogs, but I have a cat instead. My wife *hates* dogs. She has said, "It's me, or a dog." I tease her that when I come home with a dog, she'll know its time to pack her stuff...(more likely she'd pack mine.) She's smart enough to know that she doesn't want to present, "It's me or the boat." There are some things, like a dog, that a guy could live without..... Oh, man. :-) Mrs.E actually suggested that once in a hypothetical way. During one of our "conversations" she asked how I would like it if she said that I had to choose between her and the boat, and I answered, "Well, I suppose there is some things I can live without". She doesn't always appreciate my humor and I damn near caught a horseshoe off the back of my head. Eisboch |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:40:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote:
Gould 0738 wrote: There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat. My wife does the same thing, in reverse. Whenever she decides she wants something in the "talk about it first" category, she merely calculates the number of "moorage months" involved in her prospective purchase. Darn, she's shrewd. In fact she's very shrewd. I love dogs, but I have a cat instead. My wife *hates* dogs. She has said, "It's me, or a dog." I tease her that when I come home with a dog, she'll know its time to pack her stuff...(more likely she'd pack mine.) She's smart enough to know that she doesn't want to present, "It's me or the boat." There are some things, like a dog, that a guy could live without..... Oh, man. :-) Mrs.E actually suggested that once in a hypothetical way. During one of our "conversations" she asked how I would like it if she said that I had to choose between her and the boat, and I answered, "Well, I suppose there is some things I can live without". She doesn't always appreciate my humor and I damn near caught a horseshoe off the back of my head. It funny, but my family never once, even in theory, have begrudged me the boats I've owned over the years. Then again, it get's me out of the house and out of their hair. [1] Later, Tom [1] And I make it sound much worse than it actually is. :) |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:01:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:31:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: It's going to be fun to watch America squander its future. ============================= That's irresponsible to put it mildly. You're right. It's irresponsible for a country to squander its future. ======================== Or enjoy watching it. Well, you've got to admit something, Wayne. If you tell someone repeatedly that if they do "A", then the unfortunate result will be "B", and they continue to do "A", there is a certain pleasure in watching them writhe like a slug sprinkled with salt when they get the expected result. Some people never learn from experience, and have absolutely no observation skills. |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:40:26 -0500, Eisboch wrote: Gould 0738 wrote: There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat. My wife does the same thing, in reverse. Whenever she decides she wants something in the "talk about it first" category, she merely calculates the number of "moorage months" involved in her prospective purchase. Darn, she's shrewd. In fact she's very shrewd. I love dogs, but I have a cat instead. My wife *hates* dogs. She has said, "It's me, or a dog." I tease her that when I come home with a dog, she'll know its time to pack her stuff...(more likely she'd pack mine.) She's smart enough to know that she doesn't want to present, "It's me or the boat." There are some things, like a dog, that a guy could live without..... Oh, man. :-) Mrs.E actually suggested that once in a hypothetical way. During one of our "conversations" she asked how I would like it if she said that I had to choose between her and the boat, and I answered, "Well, I suppose there is some things I can live without". She doesn't always appreciate my humor and I damn near caught a horseshoe off the back of my head. It funny, but my family never once, even in theory, have begrudged me the boats I've owned over the years. Then again, it get's me out of the house and out of their hair. [1] Later, Tom I must've gotten lucky. Two months before I got my boat, my ex was constantly feeling miserable about our financial situation. It wasn't bad - it was just a completely different way of looking at things. Anyway, one day I'm sitting on the couch with boat brochures. She sits down (and this is January) and says something like "Well, I don't know the solution to the money problem, but I think you should buy the boat anyway. It'll be like a hundred a month on your Visa card (cheap boat), and since our son's too big for 3 of us to fit the canoe, it'll be another way to get outside more often. I'll wait till April to look at pianos." I just kept my mouth shut, got up, and called the marina to find out how late they were open. The deal was done the same day. |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:06:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: Try looking at it from the viewpoint of the original Americans and it might be easier to understand the problem. This assumes, of course, that you realize the original Americans were pagans, not Christians. ============================================= The cynical definition of a pagan is someone who believes in a different imaginary friend. The founding fathers of the constitution had seen quite enough of state enforced religious practices when they started writing. Wise men. What??? Every Christian or Jew has an imaginary friend. The native Americans saw divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect that idea with their spiritual beliefs??? |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:46:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:06:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: Try looking at it from the viewpoint of the original Americans and it might be easier to understand the problem. This assumes, of course, that you realize the original Americans were pagans, not Christians. ============================================= The cynical definition of a pagan is someone who believes in a different imaginary friend. The founding fathers of the constitution had seen quite enough of state enforced religious practices when they started writing. Wise men. What??? Every Christian or Jew has an imaginary friend. The native Americans saw divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect that idea with their spiritual beliefs??? Sometime off line, I'll tell you the story of my experience with a Navajo shaman - totally unscripted, off the beaten path kind of thing. It was REALLY freaky and kind of scary in a way. I've always believed in a spirit/other world for a lot of reasons, but this experience just clinched it for me. All the best, Tom -------------- "What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup... is there a computer terminal in the day room of some looney bin somewhere?" Bilgeman - circa 2004 |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:46:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: The native Americans saw divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect that idea with their spiritual beliefs??? =========================== Two unrelated thoughts, should have been a new paragraph. My bad. |
Chuck,
That's what I like about you, you've got your priorities straight. :-) Paul "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... There is, however, one benefit to her horse hobby. I can use it as leverage when I need a new gadget for the boat. My wife does the same thing, in reverse. Whenever she decides she wants something in the "talk about it first" category, she merely calculates the number of "moorage months" involved in her prospective purchase. Darn, she's shrewd. In fact she's very shrewd. I love dogs, but I have a cat instead. My wife *hates* dogs. She has said, "It's me, or a dog." I tease her that when I come home with a dog, she'll know its time to pack her stuff...(more likely she'd pack mine.) She's smart enough to know that she doesn't want to present, "It's me or the boat." There are some things, like a dog, that a guy could live without..... |
Eisboch,
You're not thinking correctly, you should have done as your wife would have (most any woman actually), had the situation been reversed. When she admonished you, you should immediately replied with a hurt look and an indignant voice: "Well, it was the boat I was willing to give up!!!" You can keep a straight face can't you? :-) If we as men are going to survive, we have to learn their tactics. Paul "Eisboch" wrote in message ... Oh, man. :-) Mrs.E actually suggested that once in a hypothetical way. During one of our "conversations" she asked how I would like it if she said that I had to choose between her and the boat, and I answered, "Well, I suppose there is some things I can live without". She doesn't always appreciate my humor and I damn near caught a horseshoe off the back of my head. Eisboch |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:46:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:06:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: Try looking at it from the viewpoint of the original Americans and it might be easier to understand the problem. This assumes, of course, that you realize the original Americans were pagans, not Christians. ============================================= The cynical definition of a pagan is someone who believes in a different imaginary friend. The founding fathers of the constitution had seen quite enough of state enforced religious practices when they started writing. Wise men. What??? Every Christian or Jew has an imaginary friend. The native Americans saw divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect that idea with their spiritual beliefs??? Sometime off line, I'll tell you the story of my experience with a Navajo shaman - totally unscripted, off the beaten path kind of thing. It was REALLY freaky and kind of scary in a way. I've always believed in a spirit/other world for a lot of reasons, but this experience just clinched it for me. All the best, Tom That email address is real, Tom. |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:46:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: The native Americans saw divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect that idea with their spiritual beliefs??? =========================== Two unrelated thoughts, should have been a new paragraph. My bad. OK. Meanwhile, I had a long discussion with a hydrangea yesterday. Not sure if the two Molsons were in any way connected with the experience. |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:04:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "JohnH" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:41:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "DSK" wrote in message . .. Doug Kanter wrote: .... But, my dad has a thing about control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him. Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you. DSK I should elaborate. You'll love this. Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM. Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said "We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down. Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic - something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included: 1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You just need to get over it. 2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things? 3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way. Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the rental car. Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by 6:10". This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said "I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why, in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done. I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical. Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost 10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows". Life's weird. Sounds like your dad has a very controlling personality, almost as bad as my wife. It also sounds as though you have developed coping mechanisms, as I have with my wife. Just be glad you don't have to live with your dad! I know that this is a psychological disorder, and can probably be helped with therapy. However, controlling personality types don't (obviously) like anyone suggesting they go to therapy. I don't know what the solution is. John H The solution is to shock them, John. Buckets of cold water over their heads. That sounds like a plan. Let me know after you've done your dad. Then maybe I'll give it a shot. John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 08:45:19 -0500, thunder
wrote: On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:29:47 -0500, Dave Hall wrote: It's this kind of thinking that resulted in over 110,000 Japanese-Americans being "relocated" at the beginning of Wo rldWarII. When you are at war, you have to cover your bases. Cover your bases? By interning American citizens? They had their reasons back then. They were concerned about espionage. When viewed through the filter of time, it looks like an indefensible action. But at the time, it was a reasonable thing to do considering the circumstances. Dave |
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:34:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 02:05:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . How you can group all Muslims is laughable not to mention ignorant. Not all Muslims are terrorists. But the majority of the recent terrorists that we're fighting now are Muslims. To deny the influence of that faith on their actions, is being ignorant. Stumped by set theory in junior high school? Huh? Dave Just as I thought. Go sit in the corner and drink your chocolate milk, child. Ah Douggie, nice to hear from you again. I see the prospects of home ownership have not diminished your wonderful congenial personality, if not your strangely biased viewpoints. Have any of the neighborhood canines left you a present on the front yard yet? You should be proud of one thing. I took something you once told me to heart. You once lambasted me for not taking a more active role in local politics. I thought about that and decided that you were right. So rather than spend the last few months arguing with the intellectual equivalents of brick walls, I decided to get involved with the Bush re-election campaign. Both my wife and I did our part to get the people in my local district out to vote. Judging from the fact that there were still people in line to vote at 11:00 election night, I'd say our efforts must have paid off. Our county was overwhelmingly red, and even though the majority of the state was negated by the dense (in more ways than one) populations of the two major cities, we still did a good job getting the message out. It felt good. Dave |
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:41:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "DSK" wrote in message . .. Doug Kanter wrote: .... But, my dad has a thing about control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him. Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you. DSK I should elaborate. You'll love this. Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM. Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said "We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down. Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic - something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included: 1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You just need to get over it. 2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things? 3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way. Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the rental car. Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by 6:10". This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said "I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why, in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done. I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical. Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost 10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows". Life's weird. Ah, so you're a beneficiary of nepotism. That explains allot. You can always tell dad to take this job and shove it, if his iron hand bothers you so much. But something tells me you won't..... Dave |
"JohnH" wrote in message
... Sounds like your dad has a very controlling personality, almost as bad as my wife. It also sounds as though you have developed coping mechanisms, as I have with my wife. Just be glad you don't have to live with your dad! I know that this is a psychological disorder, and can probably be helped with therapy. However, controlling personality types don't (obviously) like anyone suggesting they go to therapy. I don't know what the solution is. John H The solution is to shock them, John. Buckets of cold water over their heads. That sounds like a plan. Let me know after you've done your dad. Then maybe I'll give it a shot. It's working. The other night, he said "Sometimes after we talk on the phone, I can't speak for an hour". This is a guy who, a year ago, said something so insulting to me that I hung up on him. He called back, I told him I was insulted, and (sit down & get ready for this), he said "Listen, mister! I have every right to insult you!" Uh huh. Right. |
"Dave Hall" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:41:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "DSK" wrote in message . .. Doug Kanter wrote: .... But, my dad has a thing about control, and the rest of the family has decided he needs to be ground down a bit with a very coarse rasp. Otherwise, there's no living with him. Same here. In some cases, the "coarse rasp" can be making it obvious that you will not interact in any way shape or form, until the behaviour improves. It's hard to be a control freak when people ignore you. DSK I should elaborate. You'll love this. Had to fly to Long Island Wednesday and return yesterday. I had a social engagement at 6:30 PM last night, so in order to get home in time, I had to take a 6:00 AM flight out of LI. That's 5:00 AM arrival at the airport, had to leave the hotel by 4:15, which meant waking up a little after 3:00 AM. Last week, I called the hotel to inquire as to the odds of finding a cab at that hour. They said "We can usually get one". OK. Called my dad who said "We haven't figured out who's gonna take you to the airport yet.....". Hung up. Thought about it for the rest of the day. Realized that the social engagement would include a spectacular dinner & drinks. Found I could rent a car from Budget for $88 plus tax, which to me was the right price for the dinner & drinks. An insurance policy of sorts, to eliminate all variables from my ride to the airport, except for the rental car breaking down. Called dad, told him I was renting a car on MY DIME. He went ballistic - something like "Who the hell do you think you are making decisions like that? I'm running a company here, and employees do NOT take it upon themselves to make decisions like that!!!" My responses included: 1) It's not a problem. You just THINK it is, and THAT'S the problem. You just need to get over it. 2) It's in the same category as which suitcase I choose to bring, and which clothing. Do you have any preferences about these things? 3) You control people, which is insulting. I control situations by manipulating time, objects and information. Nobody's insulted that way. Anyway....he never got over it, but at least he dropped the subject of the rental car. Thursday afternoon, 5:00 PM, he tells me my sister and her family are coming to the office at 6:15 and we're all going out to dinner, and that he'll be in a meeting till 6:00. My work was done, so I said "OK...I'm going back to the hotel to wash up & change into warmer clothes. I'll be back here by 6:10". This was not in his plans, so again, he twisted himself into knots and said "I expect you to wait here until then...." or some such crap. I asked why, in case there was a valid business reason. He said "Because when the other salespeople come in from around the country, that's what THEY do!" I calmly explained that because I was the only one there, there was no sensible reason for it. He just shook his head & went back to his meeting. Outside the restaurant, he took me aside to explain what a horrible thing I'd done. I suggested that if he needed to control everyone's actions, perhaps a dog would be a good thing to have. Dinner was great, though paradoxical. Usually, he gives perfectly good waiters & waitresses a hard time over nothing. That night, the waitress was an incompetent slug. The manager came over to take away appetizer plates. Dad says "That's a great waitress you've got there". The manager says "Well, she's been in this industry for almost 10 years". Dad says "It certainly shows". Life's weird. Ah, so you're a beneficiary of nepotism. That explains allot. You can always tell dad to take this job and shove it, if his iron hand bothers you so much. But something tells me you won't..... Dave You're right, Dave. What's satisfying about the job is: 1) I don't have to deal with him very much, and the rest of the people are a gas to work with. 2) Part of my job involves creating sanity from chaos with regard to their information systems. But, I have a year or two left. I need to be challenged more. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Doug Kanter wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:46:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: The native Americans saw divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect that idea with their spiritual beliefs??? =========================== Two unrelated thoughts, should have been a new paragraph. My bad. OK. Meanwhile, I had a long discussion with a hydrangea yesterday. Not sure if the two Molsons were in any way connected with the experience. What color blossoms? The hydrangeas (3 of them) were very badly cared for by the previous owner. All the flowers were very pale green. Normally, if the soil's not acidic enough, you'll get pink instead of blue, but these were so far gone, they were green. I won't know until next year what their real variety is. Just got a new cell phone, but I couldn't afford the one with the DNA analysis probe. |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:38:57 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: I had been taught that there was no place for religion in the public schools. ======================== And we hold these truths to be self evident... |
"John Gaquin" wrote in message ... "Gould 0738" wrote in message You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do, one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom to practice the religion of their choice. On reflection, I will acknowledge a misuse of the word 'Christian' in my original post, wherein I should have stated simply "...Enough of those who would prohibit a simple prayer at the start of the school day...". The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal. Fine, but if the tables were turned and Christian kids were told that each morning, they were to recite something from the Quran, they'd be equally annoyed. At some point, everyone needs to take personal responsibility for their bull**** ideas, and stop pointing to bibles and constitutions as an excuse. |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do, one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom to practice the religion of their choice. On reflection, I will acknowledge a misuse of the word 'Christian' in my original post, wherein I should have stated simply "...Enough of those who would prohibit a simple prayer at the start of the school day...". The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal. |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:59:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Sorry, but if I were a Jewish or Buddhist kid, and a Christian prayer werre recited aloud each morning in my public school, I'd be mightily offended. Recitation of that prayer is practicing religion in a public facility. And that is not permitted under the separation clause I can think of plenty of Christian type folks who have no use for the Christian fundi types who are pushing their views. bb |
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:05:08 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:
They had their reasons back then. They were concerned about espionage. When viewed through the filter of time, it looks like an indefensible action. But at the time, it was a reasonable thing to do considering the circumstances. Of course, the idea was to learn from history, not judge history. We are a good people, who have occasionally done bad things. Japanese internment was a bad thing. |
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.
Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and nobody should be compelled to attend it. |
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal. Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and nobody should be compelled to attend it. I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to mention the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to it. |
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