On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:27:51 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:


As a nation, we've done lots of good things and lots of bad things.
Considering the large number of the latter, we ought to be more cautious
when we're undertaking "things" that will harm people. As an example,
there's no legitimate excuse or justification for what we did to the
native Americans. We destroyed their civilizations.

Now Harry, of course there was. They were heathens and it's a "moral
values" thing. You send missionaries out to convert them, then you kill
what's left. If some of those you have converted are killed, not to
worry, they were probably back-sliders.

I was reading this book about early North American exploration. It said
that the a portion of the French priests that came over to convert the
Native Americans did so with the belief that they were the lost tribe of
Israel.

Could have been. The indigenous population of the Americas resulted from a
mixture of people from various parts of the world for many hundreds, if not
thousands,
of years before the Columbian expeditions.

The original missionary priests in the Mississippi vallley reported discovering
native tribes with blue and hazel eyes, and fair skin. In New England, three
British missionaries were about to be burned at the stake. Two were English,
the third had
grown up speaking Welsh as a child. As the Native Americans were geting ready
to
light off the pyres, the Welsh missionary began calling out to God in his
childhood language. Many of the words were so similar to the language used by
the tribe that had captured these missionaries that some of the captors
understood that he was calling out, in a dialect of *their own language* to a
powerful spirit for help. The missionaries were released unharmed, as a result
of this amazing "sign".

There are literally scores of similar accounts, those are the two I remember
most easily.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:57:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy.

Drop the fishing part and I'm in.

bb

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to
mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.



Will you be offering ordinations on eBay?

No. There will be only one high priest: Me. I have big plans for the altar
girls. And, there will be the occasional human sacrifice.

Where in the Constitution does it mention separation of church and
state?

It only says that government shall not establish or promote a specific
religion. Insisting that people recite a Christian prayer during an official
government function (public education) would be easily
understood as a government attempt to
establish or promote Christianity over and above all competing religions.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:52:17 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:46:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

The native Americans saw
divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect that
idea
with their spiritual beliefs???

===========================

Two unrelated thoughts, should have been a new paragraph. My bad.


OK.

Meanwhile, I had a long discussion with a hydrangea yesterday. Not sure if
the two Molsons were in any way connected with the experience.

I just lost half of a very good raisin oatmeal cookie all over my
monitor. :)

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:18:41 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

Wayne,
I was reading this book about early North American exploration. It said
that the a portion of the French priests that came over to convert the
Native Americans did so with the belief that they were the lost tribe of
Israel. They believed that when all the natives (they didn't have a clue
what "all" entailed) were converted the three riders of the apocalypse would
be unleashed, The scary part was they were reverently working towards that
goal.
Paul

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On 08 Nov 2004 03:29:38 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a
school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they
aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

=========================================

Unfortunately the prevailing view of the so called christian right is
that anyone of a different belief is a pagan at best, and should be
converted if possible that their soul may be saved. It's hard to hold
a reasonable discussion with someone of that belief system, and it's
ironic to me that it fosters the same kind of intolerance that the
hard line Islamic's are known for.

Issac Asimov (I think - can't remember - or the name of the story at
the moment) who wrote a story about Tibetan Monks spinning prayer
wheels. Their belief, of course, is that when all the prayers are
said, the end of the world occurs.

So the monks purchased several mainframe computers to say the prayers
and when the computers were switched on, the technicians leaving the
monastery started to notice that the stars were going out. :)

I don't do the story justice, but it was a great story.

Later,

Tom

They had their reasons back then. They were concerned about espionage.
When viewed through the filter of time, it looks like an indefensible
action. But at the time, it was a reasonable thing to do considering the
circumstances.

At the time, it was very similar to the way one of our enemies was treating a
portion of the population that particular government distrusted. Round em up
and imprison them all, sell off their property to the highest bidder belonging
to an approved race. There is no comparison between how
Germany ultimately dealt with a few million of the Jews and how the US and
Canada treated our Japanese citizens- most of those who went to concentration
camp in North America were ultimately released. In fact, all except those who
died from one (nonviolent) cause or another while in camp.

Did you know that some of he interred were second or latter generation
Americans? Many had never been to Japan, were not fluent in Japanese, and were
certainly no more of a threat than the
millions of German American and Italian American families that were descended
from other Axis peoples. The German and Italian families had an advantage. they
didn't "look funny".

"Gould 0738" wrote in message

It only says that government shall not establish or promote a specific
religion.

Not quite -- you've only got the one side. It says the government shall
make *no law* regarding an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free
exercise thereof.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:57:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.

The Universal and All Encompassing Cosmic Church of Fish. Fishing and
Associated Carnal Activities.

I like it. :)

Later,

Tom

PS: I had a very different name all ready, but thought better of it -
I'm sure there must be newsgroup readers of the fair sex who don't
make themselves known. :)

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:12:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to
mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.



Will you be offering ordinations on eBay?

No. There will be only one high priest: Me. I have big plans for the altar
girls. And, there will be the occasional human sacrifice.

OH OH - Can I help? I have a machete.....

All the best,

Tom
--------------

"What the hell's the deal with this newsgroup...
is there a computer terminal in the day room of
some looney bin somewhere?"

Bilgeman - circa 2004

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:52:17 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:46:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

The native Americans saw
divinity everywhere, and "state enforcement"??? How do you connect
that
idea
with their spiritual beliefs???

===========================

Two unrelated thoughts, should have been a new paragraph. My bad.


OK.

Meanwhile, I had a long discussion with a hydrangea yesterday. Not sure
if
the two Molsons were in any way connected with the experience.

I just lost half of a very good raisin oatmeal cookie all over my
monitor. :)

Later,

Tom

There's a pattern, so my conclusion may hold water. There's a creek I fish
where there are quite a few blue herons. They're amazing when they fly
slowly over the boat. Some have wingspans of almost 20 feet, but I've only
seen birds that size after a couple of Molsons. My friend Tom agrees,
although with him, it's Coors Light, and it requires 4 of them before his
observations match mine.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Gould 0738 wrote:
I was reading this book about early North American exploration. It
said
that the a portion of the French priests that came over to convert the
Native Americans did so with the belief that they were the lost tribe of
Israel.

Could have been. The indigenous population of the Americas resulted from
a
mixture of people from various parts of the world for many hundreds, if
not
thousands,
of years before the Columbian expeditions.

The original missionary priests in the Mississippi vallley reported
discovering
native tribes with blue and hazel eyes, and fair skin. In New England,
three
British missionaries were about to be burned at the stake. Two were
English,
the third had
grown up speaking Welsh as a child. As the Native Americans were geting
ready
to
light off the pyres, the Welsh missionary began calling out to God in
his
childhood language. Many of the words were so similar to the language
used by
the tribe that had captured these missionaries that some of the captors
understood that he was calling out, in a dialect of *their own language*
to a
powerful spirit for help. The missionaries were released unharmed, as a
result
of this amazing "sign".

There are literally scores of similar accounts, those are the two I
remember
most easily.


Don't forget Blazing Saddles, in which the Indian chief spoke Yiddish.

Every child born in America should be sent home with a copy of that movie.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:09:34 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:


Could have been. The indigenous population of the Americas resulted from a
mixture of people from various parts of the world for many hundreds, if
not thousands,
of years before the Columbian expeditions.

You bet. Discoveries of Kennewick Man and the Spirit Cave Mummy show us
how much we don't know.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/arctic/html/kennewick_man.html

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story....7&nav=168XKCXa

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy.

I don't know. That plan has been tried before, rather often resulting in a
religious tradition that doesn't quite pass the sniff test.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to
mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to
it.



Will you be offering ordinations on eBay?

No. There will be only one high priest: Me. I have big plans for the
altar
girls. And, there will be the occasional human sacrifice.



Wow...will you accept tithes?

Yes, but only from a list of approved items:

1) Any wine from Dr. Frank Konstantin Vineyards.
2) Keebler Pecan Sandies (cookies, and not the low fat version)
3) Lox & garlic bagels from Brownstein's on Monroe Ave in Rochester
4) Cor-Bon hollow point ammo in .45 Long Colt. Cripes! It's expensive!
5) Free outboard winterizing service
6) Kegs of Molson - the real Canadian version, smuggled across Lake Ontario.

The list will grow.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Gould 0738" wrote in message

It only says that government shall not establish or promote a specific
religion.

Not quite -- you've only got the one side. It says the government shall
make *no law* regarding an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free
exercise thereof.



If there is no law, then why do people need to go to court to deal with the
problem?

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:12:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to
mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to
it.



Will you be offering ordinations on eBay?

No. There will be only one high priest: Me. I have big plans for the
altar
girls. And, there will be the occasional human sacrifice.

OH OH - Can I help? I have a machete.....

Yeah, but I plan on sacrificing those who are most offensive to my church of
pussy. I'm thinking maybe Dave Hall should be the first to be filleted. If
you can handle that, you're in.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy.

I don't know. That plan has been tried before, rather often resulting in a
religious tradition that doesn't quite pass the sniff test.

Not even if I'm really really REALLY devout?

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:27:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:05:08 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:


They had their reasons back then. They were concerned about espionage.
When viewed through the filter of time, it looks like an indefensible
action. But at the time, it was a reasonable thing to do considering the
circumstances.

Of course, the idea was to learn from history, not judge history. We are
a good people, who have occasionally done bad things. Japanese internment
was a bad thing.


As a nation, we've done lots of good things and lots of bad things.
Considering the large number of the latter, we ought to be more cautious
when we're undertaking "things" that will harm people. As an example,
there's no legitimate excuse or justification for what we did to the
native Americans. We destroyed their civilizations.


I don't see you offering up your land as restitution......

Dave

On 08 Nov 2004 17:21:25 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

They had their reasons back then. They were concerned about espionage.
When viewed through the filter of time, it looks like an indefensible
action. But at the time, it was a reasonable thing to do considering the
circumstances.

At the time, it was very similar to the way one of our enemies was treating a
portion of the population that particular government distrusted. Round em up
and imprison them all, sell off their property to the highest bidder belonging
to an approved race. There is no comparison between how
Germany ultimately dealt with a few million of the Jews and how the US and
Canada treated our Japanese citizens- most of those who went to concentration
camp in North America were ultimately released. In fact, all except those who
died from one (nonviolent) cause or another while in camp.

Ok...... I'm not sure what your point is here, other than to draw a
distinction between our policy of internment, and the Germans' desire
for genocide.


Did you know that some of he interred were second or latter generation
Americans? Many had never been to Japan, were not fluent in Japanese, and were
certainly no more of a threat than the
millions of German American and Italian American families that were descended
from other Axis peoples. The German and Italian families had an advantage. they
didn't "look funny".

Well, I wasn't alive then, so I can't make a first hand testimony as
to the reasons why. Suffice to say that someone in the government
thought the threat was real enough to warrant that sort of treatment.

Dave

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:27:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:05:08 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:


They had their reasons back then. They were concerned about espionage.
When viewed through the filter of time, it looks like an indefensible
action. But at the time, it was a reasonable thing to do considering
the
circumstances.

Of course, the idea was to learn from history, not judge history. We
are
a good people, who have occasionally done bad things. Japanese
internment
was a bad thing.


As a nation, we've done lots of good things and lots of bad things.
Considering the large number of the latter, we ought to be more cautious
when we're undertaking "things" that will harm people. As an example,
there's no legitimate excuse or justification for what we did to the
native Americans. We destroyed their civilizations.


I don't see you offering up your land as restitution......

Dave

It's a little late for that, professor. The hunter/gatherer lifestyle would
quite fit into the small chunks of land that remain in this country.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with
equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like,
and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to
mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to
it.



Will you be offering ordinations on eBay?

No. There will be only one high priest: Me. I have big plans for the
altar
girls. And, there will be the occasional human sacrifice.



Wow...will you accept tithes?

Yes, but only from a list of approved items:

1) Any wine from Dr. Frank Konstantin Vineyards.
2) Keebler Pecan Sandies (cookies, and not the low fat version)
3) Lox & garlic bagels from Brownstein's on Monroe Ave in Rochester
4) Cor-Bon hollow point ammo in .45 Long Colt. Cripes! It's expensive!
5) Free outboard winterizing service
6) Kegs of Molson - the real Canadian version, smuggled across Lake
Ontario.

The list will grow.




We mostly have supermarket bagels down in southern Maryland. They're
lousy. The nearest bagel shop is about 30 miles away.

Have you tried a Belgian Chimay beer? I had one last week and it was
terrific. I'm not much of a beer fancier, so I wouldn't know beyond what
I think tastes good. It was a Chimay "red" and apparently is
manufactured by Trappist monks.

You dare to address the high priest?

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:37:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Ah, so you're a beneficiary of nepotism. That explains allot.

You can always tell dad to take this job and shove it, if his iron
hand bothers you so much. But something tells me you won't.....


Dave

You're right, Dave. What's satisfying about the job is:

1) I don't have to deal with him very much, and the rest of the people are a
gas to work with.
2) Part of my job involves creating sanity from chaos with regard to their
information systems.

But, I have a year or two left. I need to be challenged more.

See, I don't know about you, but if I were in your position, I would
have to wonder whether I got to where I am be the sweat of my own
brow, or through the charity of others. As long as there was that
possibility, I'd never be 100% sure.

I like knowing that I am what I am through my own efforts......

Dave

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:59:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John Gaquin wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if
you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a
freedom
to practice the religion of their choice.

On reflection, I will acknowledge a misuse of the word 'Christian' in my
original post, wherein I should have stated simply "...Enough of those who
would prohibit a simple prayer at the start of
the school day...".

The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.



Sorry, but if I were a Jewish or Buddhist kid, and a Christian prayer
werre recited aloud each morning in my public school, I'd be mightily
offended. Recitation of that prayer is practicing religion in a public
facility. And that is not permitted under the separation clause


The separation clause was there from what, the beginning? Yet, I can
remember quite vividly a short prayer given in public school every day
when I was in school. No one complained, not even the Jewish kids (or
their parents) who just sat silent out of respect for the wishes of
the majority.

It's funny that such respect is no longer forthcoming from the
minority. Instead of respect, we get "offense"....

Dave

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:57:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.



Why not, they both smell the same.....


Dave

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:12:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to
mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.



Will you be offering ordinations on eBay?

No. There will be only one high priest: Me. I have big plans for the altar
girls. And, there will be the occasional human sacrifice.


Where does the fishing part come into play?

Dave

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:37:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Ah, so you're a beneficiary of nepotism. That explains allot.

You can always tell dad to take this job and shove it, if his iron
hand bothers you so much. But something tells me you won't.....


Dave

You're right, Dave. What's satisfying about the job is:

1) I don't have to deal with him very much, and the rest of the people
are a
gas to work with.
2) Part of my job involves creating sanity from chaos with regard to
their
information systems.

But, I have a year or two left. I need to be challenged more.

See, I don't know about you, but if I were in your position, I would
have to wonder whether I got to where I am be the sweat of my own
brow, or through the charity of others. As long as there was that
possibility, I'd never be 100% sure.

I like knowing that I am what I am through my own efforts......

Dave


Thanks for the tip, Dave. My dad took all my tests for me in college, and in
the 18 years before before I came to work for him, he stopped by my various
places of employment and did my work while I went fishing and got laid.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:39:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:12:51 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to
mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to
it.



Will you be offering ordinations on eBay?

No. There will be only one high priest: Me. I have big plans for the
altar
girls. And, there will be the occasional human sacrifice.

OH OH - Can I help? I have a machete.....

Yeah, but I plan on sacrificing those who are most offensive to my church of
pussy. I'm thinking maybe Dave Hall should be the first to be filleted. If
you can handle that, you're in.


I'm honored, but be advised that your hands will burn the moment you
touch me.

Dave

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dave Hall wrote:
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:37:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Ah, so you're a beneficiary of nepotism. That explains allot.

You can always tell dad to take this job and shove it, if his iron
hand bothers you so much. But something tells me you won't.....


Dave

You're right, Dave. What's satisfying about the job is:

1) I don't have to deal with him very much, and the rest of the people
are a
gas to work with.
2) Part of my job involves creating sanity from chaos with regard to
their
information systems.

But, I have a year or two left. I need to be challenged more.

See, I don't know about you, but if I were in your position, I would
have to wonder whether I got to where I am be the sweat of my own
brow, or through the charity of others. As long as there was that
possibility, I'd never be 100% sure.

I like knowing that I am what I am through my own efforts......

Dave


Dunno why, Dave, but this song reminds me of you:

He’s a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.
...

He’s as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,

Hey Harry....apropos of nothing:
Q: How can you spot the gentile in a Jewish deli in NY?
A: He's the one who orders ham on raisin bread with butter.

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:57:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal
zeal.



Agreed. You should be able to start any sort of church you like, and
nobody
should be compelled to attend it.

I'm starting a church centered around fishing and pussy. Sorry to mention
the two in the same clause, but that's my plan and I'm sticking to it.



Why not, they both smell the same.....


Dave

Either have a little hygiene chat with Mrs Hall, or pony up more cash and
get yourself a better grade of hooker.

Ok...... I'm not sure what your point is here, other than to draw a
distinction between our policy of internment, and the Germans' desire
for genocide.

The point was to illustrate a similarity between two governments, at war with
one another, which agreed in at least the most basic sense that certain racial
or ethnic groups needed to be imprisoned for the sake of public welfare.

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:59:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John Gaquin wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if
you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a
freedom
to practice the religion of their choice.

On reflection, I will acknowledge a misuse of the word 'Christian' in my
original post, wherein I should have stated simply "...Enough of those
who
would prohibit a simple prayer at the start of
the school day...".

The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.



Sorry, but if I were a Jewish or Buddhist kid, and a Christian prayer
werre recited aloud each morning in my public school, I'd be mightily
offended. Recitation of that prayer is practicing religion in a public
facility. And that is not permitted under the separation clause


The separation clause was there from what, the beginning? Yet, I can
remember quite vividly a short prayer given in public school every day
when I was in school. No one complained, not even the Jewish kids (or
their parents) who just sat silent out of respect for the wishes of
the majority.

It's funny that such respect is no longer forthcoming from the
minority. Instead of respect, we get "offense"....

Dave

Of course harry gets it wrong in the first place.....there is no 'separation
clause' but there is an 'establishment clause'

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:21:36 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John Gaquin wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message

It only says that government shall not establish or promote a specific
religion.

Not quite -- you've only got the one side. It says the government shall
make *no law* regarding an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free
exercise thereof.



Not too familiar with the establishment clause, eh? Keep researching.
And in the meantime, keep your steeeenking religion (whatever it is) out
of my state and my public facilities and institutions.

Did you feel that way about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson when they
were rooting for Kerry? Did you feel that way about Kerry when he
said, It's a good thing Kerry didn't win, Chuck. He was the guy who
said, "My faith affects everything I do and choose...And I think that
everything you do in public life has to be guided by your faith,
affected by your faith, but without transferring it in any official
way to other people."

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Did you feel that way about Kerry when he
said, It's a good thing Kerry didn't win, Chuck.

What "way"? You were responding to Harry. Ask him.

Harry,
Yep, you do come up with them! Yiddish! :-)
Paul

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
snipped
Don't forget Blazing Saddles, in which the Indian chief spoke Yiddish.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:49:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:27:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:05:08 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:


They had their reasons back then. They were concerned about espionage.
When viewed through the filter of time, it looks like an indefensible
action. But at the time, it was a reasonable thing to do considering
the
circumstances.

Of course, the idea was to learn from history, not judge history. We
are
a good people, who have occasionally done bad things. Japanese
internment
was a bad thing.


As a nation, we've done lots of good things and lots of bad things.
Considering the large number of the latter, we ought to be more cautious
when we're undertaking "things" that will harm people. As an example,
there's no legitimate excuse or justification for what we did to the
native Americans. We destroyed their civilizations.


I don't see you offering up your land as restitution......

Dave

It's a little late for that, professor. The hunter/gatherer lifestyle would
quite fit into the small chunks of land that remain in this country.

Interesting article in the Boston Globe yesterday about hunting
licenses in New Hamster. They've been declining in the past few years
from a rate of 1% in 1998 to about 4% in 2004. In total it's about
15% and that reflects the rate nation wide.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 18:04:07 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dave Hall wrote:
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:37:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


Ah, so you're a beneficiary of nepotism. That explains allot.

You can always tell dad to take this job and shove it, if his iron
hand bothers you so much. But something tells me you won't.....


Dave

You're right, Dave. What's satisfying about the job is:

1) I don't have to deal with him very much, and the rest of the people
are a
gas to work with.
2) Part of my job involves creating sanity from chaos with regard to
their
information systems.

But, I have a year or two left. I need to be challenged more.

See, I don't know about you, but if I were in your position, I would
have to wonder whether I got to where I am be the sweat of my own
brow, or through the charity of others. As long as there was that
possibility, I'd never be 100% sure.

I like knowing that I am what I am through my own efforts......

Dave


Dunno why, Dave, but this song reminds me of you:

He’s a real nowhere man,
Sitting in his nowhere land,
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody.
...

He’s as blind as he can be,
Just sees what he wants to see,

Hey Harry....apropos of nothing:
Q: How can you spot the gentile in a Jewish deli in NY?
A: He's the one who orders ham on raisin bread with butter.

Seesh - even I wouldn't eat ham on raisin bread.

With or without butter.

Later,

Tom

"Beware the one legged man in a butt
kicking contest - he is there for a
reason."

Wun Hung Lo - date unknown

Well.... actually the Constitution only proscribed that "*Congress* shall
make no law establishing a religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof"

The **intent** was to avoid a "Church of England" scenario where the there
was a preferred religion ordained by the govt and the rest were
"discouraged".

It's only activist courts that have loosely interpreted that to the point
where nothing of *any* religious signficance is welcomed in *any* public
place. I don't believe that was the framers intent at all. And I'm not sure
it was ever intended to reach down into local govt the way it has. After all
it deliniated "congress" in the text.

The "separation clause" got that name after the fact. If the same
courthouse "zeal" to interpret the law so strictly to the letter, were to
apply to the arms ammentment, then my right to own a nuclear weapon or
tomahawk missile system could not be infringed. :)

-W


"John Gaquin" wrote in message
news:H6CdnYNaEPkICxLcRVn-

The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:30:38 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Gould 0738 wrote:
I was reading this book about early North American exploration. It
said
that the a portion of the French priests that came over to convert the
Native Americans did so with the belief that they were the lost tribe of
Israel.

Could have been. The indigenous population of the Americas resulted from
a
mixture of people from various parts of the world for many hundreds, if
not
thousands,
of years before the Columbian expeditions.

The original missionary priests in the Mississippi vallley reported
discovering
native tribes with blue and hazel eyes, and fair skin. In New England,
three
British missionaries were about to be burned at the stake. Two were
English,
the third had
grown up speaking Welsh as a child. As the Native Americans were geting
ready
to
light off the pyres, the Welsh missionary began calling out to God in
his
childhood language. Many of the words were so similar to the language
used by
the tribe that had captured these missionaries that some of the captors
understood that he was calling out, in a dialect of *their own language*
to a
powerful spirit for help. The missionaries were released unharmed, as a
result
of this amazing "sign".

There are literally scores of similar accounts, those are the two I
remember
most easily.


Don't forget Blazing Saddles, in which the Indian chief spoke Yiddish.

Every child born in America should be sent home with a copy of that movie.

```````````````````````````
"I hired you people to try to get a little track laid, not to jump
around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots."
```````````````````````````
"Qualifications?

Rape, murder, arson, and rape.

You said rape twice.

I like rape."
``````````````````````````````
"I got it.

What?

Let's kill every first born male child in Rock Ridge.

Nah, too Jewish."

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````````````````````
"What do you want me to do sir?

I want you to round up ever vicious criminal and gun slinger in the
west. Take this down. I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty
hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits,
vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers,
buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes,
train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, ****-kickers and
Methodists."
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````
"Now if that don't beat all. Here we take the good time and trouble to
slaughter every last Indian in the West, and for what? So we can
appoint a sheriff that's blacker than any Indian. I AM depressed.

Excuse me, Mr. Taggart, sir, but I sure do hate to see you like this.
What if me and the boys was to shoot that ****** dead? Would that pep
you up some?

That might help . . ."
`````````````````````````````````````````````
"I got it. I got it.

You do?

We'll work up a "Number 6" on 'em.

Number 6"? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one...

Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a whampin' and whompin'
every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the
women folks, of course.

You spare the women?

NAW. We rape the **** out of them at the Number 6 Dance later on.

Marvelous."
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````

So what do you think - third grade, fourth grade home work
assignment? :)

Later,

Tom

`