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Keenan wrote:
I think this is the answer: http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/images/unknown.jpg Keenan, it seems that when we get to the end of your argument, that you always end up at the same spot! All the prior arguments, however well presented, are trumped by this last, and they are not really the issue, at least for you. You make noises like they are important, but then you play your trump card. Like somehow we should be intimidated, but in fact you are playing to our strength. You still haven't figured it out! As a liberal, you may not like the demographics of our country, but until you can deal with them you will be relegated to increasing insignificance. The problem with that is we really do need your perspective to stay relevant, so that the important issues of the environment, and other social issues do not get lost in history. To keep from getting lost, you need a compass, and conservatives have found that the compass of moral values works for them. Liberals seem to be wandering around with no sense of direction. IMO that is why folks did not vote for them! Personally, I would encourage you to know that those of us who live down here in Jesusland, do not eat our liberal neighbors. In fact we would encourage you to join us as so many others have. Jesus tells us to love our neighbors and our enemies. Now I do not consider you my enemy, in fact, you are one of those warm, fuzzy, cuddily Canadians, that are hard to hate. So know that I love you in Jesus!!! That may be harder to swallow than if you had drunk a Cernobyl Cocktail, a Love Canal Float, a chopped old growth forest salad, a polluted Lake Superior Soup, and a roadcut Rocky Mtn steak! But God Loves you, and I Love you with Jesus' love! And I forgive you for being a Liberal! Thanks, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it! |
Hi again Keenan, I'll try to address issues you brought up in this
post Your reference to Puritanism, seems to be rooted in the gay rights issue. I wonder if you are "out" and feeling threatened, or is this just a hypothetical discussion for you. Now maybe that is not a PC question to ask, so feel free to ignore it if you choose. Isn't choice great! The Puritans came here inorder to exercise free choice, and in so doing, chose to live in a land where others chose differently. However it is also a democratic land where the majority rules, and the minority is protected from the tyranny of the majority, by the courts. The Majority is currently identified as the moral mojority, and so is opposed to the immoral minority. I am not saying that this is true or right, just that it is reality. The minority, now has the choice, of dealing with it, or slinking away. I admire you that you are not slinking! That things are difficult for you, no doubt! We were there for a long time, and only recently have rallied the troops to take significant ground. Now is not the time for us to get lazy either. We will keep pressing on, and you can choose to get onboard or not. That is your choice! Our choice is that we do not want to have Gay Marriages blighting the landscape, nor wanton abortion polluting our collective conscious. Regarding blacks feeling intimidated at the polling place, I feel that is generally a bogus charge. There may be places this occurs, it is a big country, but I am sure we would have heard more, if it was rampant. But it sure sounds politically powerful. And there is the core of the problem for Liberals. They keep trying to find some magic bullet to propel themselves into power, without really having a viable platform. Now that would be really hijacking the election, if they could have pulled it off, like feeding bogus exit polls to their sheep, which made them feel real good for awhile, but the let down was a real bummer. Of course if you can blame it on some "old white dudes," hey, what a coup. Keep on believeing this BS, if it makes you feel better. Mm. Only y'all ain't born with equality of opportunity. But I spose that's just some crackpot liberal thinkin' there eh? For a change, I think you got it right, sort of! We obviously are not born with equal opportunity, but then that is not what the Constitution is talking about. The Constitution says that we are all born equal, and that there are certain inalienable rights. Health care, or driving a Rolls, and living in Aspen, is not one of them. I live in Colorado, but not Aspen. I drive a hardly rolls, and I have to pay for my own health insurance. I have a black neighbor who has a newer car, - a management job, that I expect provides insurance, and both of us could go up to ski in Aspen. Ain't America great, independent of our skin color, we can go any place we choose. The only thing that really holds us back, is our own vision of who we are and where we want to be! Luckily most voters realized that the above program is unacceptable, if for no other reason, than who was going to pay for it? The promise was that taxes would be raised on the rich. That works until there are no more rich, and then they come after you and me, or at least me! No thankyou! LOL. Again, y'all were sayin' somethin' 'bout settin' up a false dilemma? I am self-employed, which means I get to pay all my own taxes, and I know how much I pay. I have paid a lot for a long time, and I am not rich. I would not mind being rich, mind you, then I could maybe afford to take a vacation or move up to Canada. But then I would spoil it for you, and that luckily for you, is not a false dilemna. Similiarly, enviro issues are presented in the same way. If we sneak it under the radar, make enough distracting noise, noone will realize the finacial costs of these programs. The problem, is that we have fallen for this before, and noone was buying it this time. Especially considering that for the last 30 or 40 years Nader and his crowd, have been singing the same song, but tell us the problems remain. That is why he was ignored this time more than ever before. The fact that Kerry, gave lipservice, to pacify the eco-warriors, only proves that they are easily distracted! Uh. Whatever all that means. The environment IS the economy. It just ain't rightly recognized as such by certain folk. Clueless in Canada, the fact that you don't get what that means, only shows how much out of contact you are with the issues that are important to the majority of US voters. The environment is "not" the economy, it is only a part of the economy. In a previous election, we were told that "It is the economy, Stupid!" The Dems are still singing the same song, but the band has moved on! The economy is always important, it is just what the money is going to be spent on, and how, that changes. OK, well, back to regular programming. And that is a big part of the problem, is that liberals have fallen back on their regular programming that worked for them in the 70's, failing to update their prime time offerings. Any TV station that did that would not last from one season to the next, how is it that the Dems think they can go for decades without changing, their song and dance! Thanks, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it! |
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riverman, I think you are beginning to get it.
I appreciate your conversing, not accusing and blaming. Also full thoughts help the conversation instead of snip-its. Know that I am not ignoring you or environmental impacts. Right now I ran out of time, so more later! Thanks, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it! |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Keenan wrote: I think this is the answer: http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/images/unknown.jpg Keenan, it seems that when we get to the end of your argument, that you always end up at the same spot! Which is...? All the prior arguments, however well presented, are trumped by this last, and they are not really the issue, at least for you. You make noises like they are important, but then you play your trump card. Like somehow we should be intimidated, but in fact you are playing to our strength. You still haven't figured it out! I can't even figure out what that paragraph is supposed to mean. As a liberal Which is...? you may not like the demographics of our country, but until you can deal with them you will be relegated to increasing insignificance. I'm not even in your country. The problem with that is we really do need your perspective to stay relevant, so that the important issues of the environment, and other social issues do not get lost in history. The fact that George W got RE-elected shows that most of you are already lost. To keep from getting lost, you need a compass, and conservatives have found that the compass of moral values works for them. Everyone has moral values. What you mean is simplistic mantras based in hate and fear. And yes, it works, if you have the right audience. Liberals seem to be wandering around with no sense of direction. IMO that is why folks did not vote for them! Again, I don't know what you mean by "liberals" but yes, I can see that your Democratic party, wihch is actually quite conservative in my view, doesn't know what to do in face of the popularity of hate-based and fear-based politics. Personally, I would encourage you to know that those of us who live down here in Jesusland, do not eat our liberal neighbors. In fact we would encourage you to join us as so many others have. Jesus tells us to love our neighbors and our enemies. Jesus apparently tells y'all to do all sorts of things. I don't blame Jesus for the Bush administration. Now I do not consider you my enemy, in fact, you are one of those warm, fuzzy, cuddily Canadians, that are hard to hate. Give me time. So know that I love you in Jesus!!! That's usually what y'all say before you light someone on fire or pull the switch on the 'lectric chair. That may be harder to swallow than if you had drunk a Cernobyl Cocktail, a Love Canal Float, a chopped old growth forest salad, a polluted Lake Superior Soup, and a roadcut Rocky Mtn steak! But God Loves you, and I Love you with Jesus' love! And I forgive you for being a Liberal! You should be aware that a Liberal in Canada means a member or supporter of the Liberal party, which is really not very liberal at all. Actually, I'd be really interested in knowing what "liberal" means to you. |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Hi again Keenan, I'll try to address issues you brought up in this post Your reference to Puritanism, seems to be rooted in the gay rights issue. Also abortion. And censorsihp. I wonder if you are "out" and feeling threatened, or is this just a hypothetical discussion for you. Now maybe that is not a PC question to ask, so feel free to ignore it if you choose. As it happens, I am not gay, but hatred against gay people is not "hypothetical" for me any more than racism against black people or unequal pay for women is "hypothetical." Isn't choice great! The Puritans came here inorder to exercise free choice, and in so doing, chose to live in a land where others chose differently. However it is also a democratic land where the majority rules, and the minority is protected from the tyranny of the majority, by the courts. Much to the chagrin of George and friends who are furious that the courts occasionally strike down some of their puritanical efforts. But a few changes to the courts, and whammo, the powers of hate will have the congress, the senate, the presidency, and the courts! The Majority is currently identified as the moral mojority, and so is opposed to the immoral minority. I am not saying that this is true or right, just that it is reality. Whatever that means. The minority, now has the choice, of dealing with it, or slinking away. I admire you that you are not slinking! That things are difficult for you, no doubt! We were there for a long time, and only recently have rallied the troops to take significant ground. Now is not the time for us to get lazy either. We will keep pressing on, and you can choose to get onboard or not. That is your choice! Um. Half of your own country is not on board, and just about all of the rest of the world is not on board. And you are not going to convince me to hate people just because a lot of you have gotten your **** together with the hatred of others as your focus. Our choice is that we do not want to have Gay Marriages blighting the landscape What is your problem with gay marriages? nor wanton abortion polluting our collective conscious. But you are OK with young girls in the alley with coat hangers, right? Will you find a way to deny rich people access to abortions too, or is this another in your list of policies designed to advance hate against the less fortunate. Regarding blacks feeling intimidated at the polling place, I feel that is generally a bogus charge. Blacks feel intimidated at all sorts of places in America, the polling booth certainly being one of the places where said intimidation is at its best. There may be places this occurs, it is a big country, but I am sure we would have heard more, if it was rampant. From who? Fox News!?!? But it sure sounds politically powerful. And there is the core of the problem for Liberals. They keep trying to find some magic bullet to propel themselves into power, without really having a viable platform. Now that would be really hijacking the election, if they could have pulled it off, like feeding bogus exit polls to their sheep, which made them feel real good for awhile, but the let down was a real bummer. Of course if you can blame it on some "old white dudes," hey, what a coup. Keep on believeing this BS, if it makes you feel better. No idea what you are talking about there, but you do realize that the election was a rather close one, and that it is going to be difficult to keep people in a state of perpetual fear, or even another four years? Even Americans will get bored with the so-called "war on terror." Mm. Only y'all ain't born with equality of opportunity. But I spose that's just some crackpot liberal thinkin' there eh? For a change, I think you got it right, sort of! We obviously are not born with equal opportunity Praise geezus. but then that is not what the Constitution is talking about. The Constitution says that we are all born equal Then the Constitution is wrong. You might want to fix it. I think you fixed up some other parts that were wrong. Like the value of a black person? That sort of thing. and that there are certain inalienable rights. Health care, or driving a Rolls, and living in Aspen, is not one of them. What about the right to put all your money offshore and not pay even as much tax as the poorest person? live in Colorado, but not Aspen. I drive a hardly rolls, and I have to pay for my own health insurance. I have a black neighbor who has a newer car, - a management job, that I expect provides insurance, and both of us could go up to ski in Aspen. Ain't America great, independent of our skin color, we can go any place we choose. The only thing that really holds us back, is our own vision of who we are and where we want to be! Too put it bluntly, that's an idiotic oversimplification. Your kids, or the kids born to your neighbour, are not going to have the same barriers to success as some kid growing up in a **** poor neighbourhood where the police are afraid to go and the school is a war zone. It's easy to have a nice vision when you are starting from the top of the mountain. Luckily most voters realized that the above program is unacceptable, if for no other reason, than who was going to pay for it? The promise was that taxes would be raised on the rich. That works until there are no more rich, and then they come after you and me, or at least me! No thankyou! LOL. Again, y'all were sayin' somethin' 'bout settin' up a false dilemma? I am self-employed, which means I get to pay all my own taxes, and I know how much I pay. I have paid a lot for a long time, and I am not rich. I would not mind being rich, mind you, then I could maybe afford to take a vacation or move up to Canada. But then I would spoil it for you, and that luckily for you, is not a false dilemna. You should come up here. See if you can pick out the gay married people from the gay unmarried people the straight unmarried people and the straight married people. Similiarly, enviro issues are presented in the same way. If we sneak it under the radar, make enough distracting noise, noone will realize the finacial costs of these programs. The problem, is that we have fallen for this before, and noone was buying it this time. Especially considering that for the last 30 or 40 years Nader and his crowd, have been singing the same song, but tell us the problems remain. That is why he was ignored this time more than ever before. The fact that Kerry, gave lipservice, to pacify the eco-warriors, only proves that they are easily distracted! Uh. Whatever all that means. The environment IS the economy. It just ain't rightly recognized as such by certain folk. Clueless in Canada, the fact that you don't get what that means, only shows how much out of contact you are with the issues that are important to the majority of US voters. The environment is "not" the economy, it is only a part of the economy. In a previous election, we were told that "It is the economy, Stupid!" The Dems are still singing the same song, but the band has moved on! The economy is always important, it is just what the money is going to be spent on, and how, that changes. I have no idea what that is all supposed to mean, and I don't think you do either. It sounds like one of George W's speeches. You know, the ones where the sheep in the audience look all confused until they get the signal to clap at the end? OK, well, back to regular programming. And that is a big part of the problem, is that liberals have fallen back on their regular programming that worked for them in the 70's, failing to update their prime time offerings. Any TV station that did that would not last from one season to the next, how is it that the Dems think they can go for decades without changing, their song and dance! Have you in the past - or do you currently - take hallucinogenic drugs? I know this is a personal question, but hey, you asked me if I was gay! |
"Keenan Wellar" wrote in message .. . "Michael Daly" wrote in message ... On 15-Nov-2004, Brian Nystrom wrote: You can dump on Keenan all you want, but dumping on Canada needs proof. :-) Mike I AM CANADIAN! ==================== We know. Stupidity, like hot air seems to be rising.... |
Keenan Wellar wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message m... Hi again Keenan, I'll try to address issues you brought up in this post Your reference to Puritanism, seems to be rooted in the gay rights issue. Also abortion. And censorsihp. And euthanasia, pornography, prostitution, soft drugs use etc. etc.. Let's make people criminals for doing something that others don't want and therefore want to forbid everyone else from doing. I wonder if you are "out" and feeling threatened, or is this just a hypothetical discussion for you. Now maybe that is not a PC question to ask, so feel free to ignore it if you choose. As it happens, I am not gay, but hatred against gay people is not "hypothetical" for me any more than racism against black people or unequal pay for women is "hypothetical." Not to mention the unequal rights for women as promoted by the religious right: women belong at home, taking care of the children. Geez! Isn't choice great! The Puritans came here inorder to exercise free choice, and in so doing, chose to live in a land where others chose differently. However it is also a democratic land where the majority rules, and the minority is protected from the tyranny of the majority, by the courts. Much to the chagrin of George and friends who are furious that the courts occasionally strike down some of their puritanical efforts. But a few changes to the courts, and whammo, the powers of hate will have the congress, the senate, the presidency, and the courts! Yeah, already there is not much left to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority, except a lot of money to afford expensive lawyers who know how to talk a bent stick straight, let alone to protect the maority from an extreme right wing minority who have the government's ear. Democracy my ass. (if a majority vote in this so called democracy was indeed all it took, why did the Democrats lose the previous presidential election even though they had so many thousands more votes? Why does a democracy need propaganda, censorship of the media, police state "laws" and police disruption of peaceful protests and so on?) The minority, now has the choice, of dealing with it, or slinking away. I admire you that you are not slinking! That things are difficult for you, no doubt! We were there for a long time, and only recently have rallied the troops to take significant ground. Now is not the time for us to get lazy either. We will keep pressing on, and you can choose to get onboard or not. That is your choice! Um. Half of your own country is not on board, and just about all of the rest of the world is not on board. And you are not going to convince me to hate people just because a lot of you have gotten your **** together with the hatred of others as your focus. Make that less than a quarter of his own country: if the potential voters make up half the U.S. population, and if only a majority of those potential voters actually takes the trouble to go and vote, with just over half of the actual voters voting for one candidate, then that candidate gets less than half of one half of the population behind him. Our choice is that we do not want to have Gay Marriages blighting the landscape What is your problem with gay marriages? nor wanton abortion polluting our collective conscious. But you are OK with young girls in the alley with coat hangers, right? Will you find a way to deny rich people access to abortions too, or is this another in your list of policies designed to advance hate against the less fortunate. Or people killing other innocent people because the government wants to wage another war somewhere far away against an imaginary foe. Regarding blacks feeling intimidated at the polling place, I feel that is generally a bogus charge. Blacks feel intimidated at all sorts of places in America, the polling booth certainly being one of the places where said intimidation is at its best. I wonder why there are so few black boaters in the U.S., despite the population of the U.S. being something like 15% black? But it sure sounds politically powerful. And there is the core of the problem for Liberals. They keep trying to find some magic bullet to propel themselves into power, without really having a viable platform. Sounds like you just described the current government's approach to staying in power to a point... No idea what you are talking about there, but you do realize that the election was a rather close one, and that it is going to be difficult to keep people in a state of perpetual fear, or even another four years? Even Americans will get bored with the so-called "war on terror." Don't underestimate the herd animal mentality... :-( and that there are certain inalienable rights. Health care, or driving a Rolls, and living in Aspen, is not one of them. What about the right to put all your money offshore and not pay even as much tax as the poorest person? live in Colorado, but not Aspen. I drive a hardly rolls, and I have to pay for my own health insurance. I have a black neighbor who has a newer car, - a management job, that I expect provides insurance, and both of us could go up to ski in Aspen. Ain't America great, independent of our skin color, we can go any place we choose. The only thing that really holds us back, is our own vision of who we are and where we want to be! How many black people are in that same position? Talking about discrimination... one exception does prove the rule. I am self-employed, which means I get to pay all my own taxes, and I know how much I pay. I have paid a lot for a long time, and I am not rich. I would not mind being rich, mind you, then I could maybe afford to take a vacation or move up to Canada. But then I would spoil it for you, and that luckily for you, is not a false dilemna. You should come up here. See if you can pick out the gay married people from the gay unmarried people the straight unmarried people and the straight married people. Well said! OK, well, back to regular programming. And that is a big part of the problem, is that liberals have fallen back on their regular programming that worked for them in the 70's, failing to update their prime time offerings. Any TV station that did that would not last from one season to the next, how is it that the Dems think they can go for decades without changing, their song and dance! Have you in the past - or do you currently - take hallucinogenic drugs? I know this is a personal question, but hey, you asked me if I was gay! big grin -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
As it is now, the war against terrorism is inefficient an ineffective
causing many innocent deaths and making things worse instead of better. And with the existence of the concentration camp in Guantanamo Bay, the state has become the enemy and is creating new seeds for more terrorism in all the world. Ask the thousand dead insurgents how inefficient and ineffective the US battle plan is. Granted, there were probably innocents killed Probably??? even the American soldiers who die there can be called innocent... But that view may be (too) Liberal for you? |
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