in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/26/04 8:36 PM:

Keenan, Keenan, what are we going to do with such vitrol. I realize
that you have not received the post yet that I sent earlier, and this
may pass your response in cyber space. However, this recent post by
you continues to demonstrate the high level of vitrol present in your
post, you need to check your dipstick. High vitrol, leads to
bitterness, resentment and anger, all of which seems to be present. I
hope that you can find a less public dumping ground than a public
forum to work out your issues, though if you choose to continue here,
you are certainly free to do so, and reap the commentary of Retter and
company.

As is often the case, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I cherish your civil and professional response which I am sure you are
capable of. The one liners, and childish logic demean your
credentials. Retter needles you as being a fool. I don't perceive you
as a fool, so why do you persist in presenting yourself as one?

Sometimes in order to communicate with a child you need to speak in a
child's language.

Even in this last post of yours, you delve into the depths of the
meaning of extro and intro, and totally miss, or should I say ignore
the true meaning of my post.

I found it...odd...that you felt the need to explain what an extrovert is.

And if that escapes your ability to
comprehend, you also miss the sincere spirit in which I wrote. I do
not find my stability in question, but you are the one that presents a
less than desirable character to be discussing a serious subject. Are
you contrary, for the sake of being contrary, or in the American
Indian sense of the word, if you know what that means?

You've lost me with the American Indian comment.

I have no idea as to your stability outside of this forum. It may simply be
your writing style that leaves an unstable impression. To be honest, you
come across as though you are part of some sort of cult.

Respectfully Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

That particular sig line doesn't help alleviate that impression either.

Keenan Wellar wrote in message news:BDCD7D6C.127E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/26/04 8:36 PM:

Keenan, Keenan, what are we going to do with such vitrol. I realize
that you have not received the post yet that I sent earlier, and this
may pass your response in cyber space. However, this recent post by
you continues to demonstrate the high level of vitrol present in your
post, you need to check your dipstick. High vitrol, leads to
bitterness, resentment and anger, all of which seems to be present. I
hope that you can find a less public dumping ground than a public
forum to work out your issues, though if you choose to continue here,
you are certainly free to do so, and reap the commentary of Retter and
company.

As is often the case, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I misspelled the word "vitriol" above, defined as in caustic quality,
esp. virulence of feeling or of speech. So probably I left you
wondering what I was speaking of when I mentioned "vitrol." I hope
this clarifies what I was talking about. But if it does not, please
let me qualify further. Often times as you respond, it appears that
you are bitter, angry, and resentful. I assume from my googling, that
you are in your 30s, though it is not really important. If you
continue with this vitriol, someday you will be a bitter old man!

Now having said that, I detect a lowering of the vitriol even in the
last couple of post, and look forward to having a reasonable
conversation.


I cherish your civil and professional response which I am sure you are
capable of. The one liners, and childish logic demean your
credentials. Retter needles you as being a fool. I don't perceive you
as a fool, so why do you persist in presenting yourself as one?

Sometimes in order to communicate with a child you need to speak in a
child's language.

I assume you are speaking of your discussions with Retter. I will also
assume the two of you have met before, so you may actually be the best
of friends. For that reason I will not come between you, and will let
you work it out with him.


Even in this last post of yours, you delve into the depths of the
meaning of extro and intro, and totally miss, or should I say ignore
the true meaning of my post.

I found it...odd...that you felt the need to explain what an extrovert is.

I was not pointing out the difference between "extro and intro" so
much as anwering your question as to why Patton is perceived now as
bitter and unstable. His personality shifted when he was no longer in
control. I am sure that you know the difference between the two words
as most readers here would, but I did not want to assume all
understood the dynamic of the shift from an ENTP to an INTP, or worse,
INTJ. You from your professional training may be familiar with these
nuances, but I did not want to assume that either, since I do not know
your exact professional credentials. Maybe I should do some more
googling. In as much as there is only one of you, it is pretty easy!
Luckily for us!



And if that escapes your ability to
comprehend, you also miss the sincere spirit in which I wrote. I do
not find my stability in question, but you are the one that presents a
less than desirable character to be discussing a serious subject. Are
you contrary, for the sake of being contrary, or in the American
Indian sense of the word, if you know what that means?

You've lost me with the American Indian comment.

Some people are contrary just to be mean! However, particularly in the
Souix tribe, there was a group identified as "Contraries". Of course
that was not the word used, but a Souix language word has been
translated as contraries.
The contrary wasn't particularly mean, but went through life doing
things backwards. He walked backwards, and took dirt baths, and wore
his/her clothes backwards, and even learned to talk backwards. Food
that was normally eaten cold, was eaten hot, and vice versus. You
begin to get the point!

The contraries were actually fearsome warriors, because at the time
the conflicting tribes were not so much interested in killing their
enemy, as in counting coup. In the heat of battle, the bravest would
try to get close enough to the adversary to just touch him, and then
get away. If successful they would then capture a part of the spirit
of the one who was touched.

Well, when the contrary came riding into battle, riding backwards. It
would so freak out the other side, who didn't want anything to do with
him, they would often just flee the battlefield. Lest they get touched
by and become under the influence of the contrary spirit.

Now in our society, we would put these crazy folks away, and lock them
up. However, for his own people at that time, he was treated as a
hero, and lived an elevated position in the tribe. Often times, the
men dressed as women, and the women as men. And they usually expressed
the opposite sexual trait as well. Though even that served an accepted
practice and need in the tribe as well. The Souix did not look down
upon the homosexual, but again elevated him because of his dual
spirit.

Now all this has to do with you, if you are contrary because that is
the way you are, or because of a mean spirit. I hope you are not mean,
and that does not imply that any of the rest of the discription
applies either. We are in a different place and a different time.
However, I believe that there is still lots of latitude for personal
expression!

The above description came from the Souix story book, Hanto Yo, which
was originally written in the Souix Language, on a Buffaloe Skin. It
eventually was translated, for publication. Parts of it does sound
familiar to what has gone on this thread, and others, where a bunch of
contrary nitpicking is going on, as if we are trying to count coup on
the other poster, and we prevail when they all leave when things get
too contrary.


I have no idea as to your stability outside of this forum. It may simply be
your writing style that leaves an unstable impression. To be honest, you
come across as though you are part of some sort of cult.

As far as writing style, I understand, that it may appear unstable,
for you have seen me take different tacks from time to time. I don't
know if you have done any sailing, but tacking is done to make headway
into an opposing and changing wind. And there has been some wild wind
on this thread about wild places. Tacking was necessary, not for the
purpose of deceit, but inorder to arrive where we are today. I know
that I am still the International Man of Mystery, but we are getting
to know each other better, as the mystery is revealed. Yeah...
Baaby!!!!



Respectfully Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

That particular sig line doesn't help alleviate that impression either.

I would be very interested in your definition of a cult, and what is
your impression of my sig line, how does it bother you?

Respectfully, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/27/04 8:47 AM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in message
news:BDCD7D6C.127E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/26/04 8:36 PM:

Keenan, Keenan, what are we going to do with such vitrol. I realize
that you have not received the post yet that I sent earlier, and this
may pass your response in cyber space. However, this recent post by
you continues to demonstrate the high level of vitrol present in your
post, you need to check your dipstick. High vitrol, leads to
bitterness, resentment and anger, all of which seems to be present. I
hope that you can find a less public dumping ground than a public
forum to work out your issues, though if you choose to continue here,
you are certainly free to do so, and reap the commentary of Retter and
company.

As is often the case, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I misspelled the word "vitriol" above, defined as in caustic quality,
esp. virulence of feeling or of speech. So probably I left you
wondering what I was speaking of when I mentioned "vitrol." I hope
this clarifies what I was talking about. But if it does not, please
let me qualify further. Often times as you respond, it appears that
you are bitter, angry, and resentful. I assume from my googling, that
you are in your 30s, though it is not really important. If you
continue with this vitriol, someday you will be a bitter old man!

The problem was not your spelling.

Now that you have clarified, I thank you for your misplaced concern.

Now having said that, I detect a lowering of the vitriol even in the
last couple of post, and look forward to having a reasonable
conversation.

That would depend on whether or not you will be speaking within the bounds
of reason.


I cherish your civil and professional response which I am sure you are
capable of. The one liners, and childish logic demean your
credentials. Retter needles you as being a fool. I don't perceive you
as a fool, so why do you persist in presenting yourself as one?

Sometimes in order to communicate with a child you need to speak in a
child's language.

I assume you are speaking of your discussions with Retter. I will also
assume the two of you have met before, so you may actually be the best
of friends. For that reason I will not come between you, and will let
you work it out with him.

Uh...how to respond in the positive fashion you crave without reinforcing
the strange conclusions...how's this:

Thank you for understanding that my communications with others are none of
your business.

Even in this last post of yours, you delve into the depths of the
meaning of extro and intro, and totally miss, or should I say ignore
the true meaning of my post.

I found it...odd...that you felt the need to explain what an extrovert is.

I was not pointing out the difference between "extro and intro" so
much as anwering your question as to why Patton is perceived now as
bitter and unstable. His personality shifted when he was no longer in
control. I am sure that you know the difference between the two words
as most readers here would, but I did not want to assume all
understood the dynamic of the shift from an ENTP to an INTP, or worse,
INTJ. You from your professional training may be familiar with these
nuances, but I did not want to assume that either, since I do not know
your exact professional credentials. Maybe I should do some more
googling. In as much as there is only one of you, it is pretty easy!
Luckily for us!

Yeah, great.

And if that escapes your ability to
comprehend, you also miss the sincere spirit in which I wrote. I do
not find my stability in question, but you are the one that presents a
less than desirable character to be discussing a serious subject. Are
you contrary, for the sake of being contrary, or in the American
Indian sense of the word, if you know what that means?

You've lost me with the American Indian comment.

Some people are contrary just to be mean! However, particularly in the
Souix tribe, there was a group identified as "Contraries". Of course
that was not the word used, but a Souix language word has been
translated as contraries.
The contrary wasn't particularly mean, but went through life doing
things backwards. He walked backwards, and took dirt baths, and wore
his/her clothes backwards, and even learned to talk backwards. Food
that was normally eaten cold, was eaten hot, and vice versus. You
begin to get the point!

The contraries were actually fearsome warriors, because at the time
the conflicting tribes were not so much interested in killing their
enemy, as in counting coup. In the heat of battle, the bravest would
try to get close enough to the adversary to just touch him, and then
get away. If successful they would then capture a part of the spirit
of the one who was touched.

Well, when the contrary came riding into battle, riding backwards. It
would so freak out the other side, who didn't want anything to do with
him, they would often just flee the battlefield. Lest they get touched
by and become under the influence of the contrary spirit.

Now in our society, we would put these crazy folks away, and lock them
up. However, for his own people at that time, he was treated as a
hero, and lived an elevated position in the tribe. Often times, the
men dressed as women, and the women as men. And they usually expressed
the opposite sexual trait as well. Though even that served an accepted
practice and need in the tribe as well. The Souix did not look down
upon the homosexual, but again elevated him because of his dual
spirit.

Now all this has to do with you, if you are contrary because that is
the way you are, or because of a mean spirit. I hope you are not mean,
and that does not imply that any of the rest of the discription
applies either. We are in a different place and a different time.
However, I believe that there is still lots of latitude for personal
expression!

The above description came from the Souix story book, Hanto Yo, which
was originally written in the Souix Language, on a Buffaloe Skin. It
eventually was translated, for publication. Parts of it does sound
familiar to what has gone on this thread, and others, where a bunch of
contrary nitpicking is going on, as if we are trying to count coup on
the other poster, and we prevail when they all leave when things get
too contrary.

That's all very fascinating, but in a fashion that seems typical for you,
you have failed to consider that it may be you who is riding backwards!

I have no idea as to your stability outside of this forum. It may simply be
your writing style that leaves an unstable impression. To be honest, you
come across as though you are part of some sort of cult.

As far as writing style, I understand, that it may appear unstable,
for you have seen me take different tacks from time to time. I don't
know if you have done any sailing, but tacking is done to make headway
into an opposing and changing wind. And there has been some wild wind
on this thread about wild places. Tacking was necessary, not for the
purpose of deceit, but inorder to arrive where we are today. I know
that I am still the International Man of Mystery, but we are getting
to know each other better, as the mystery is revealed. Yeah...
Baaby!!!!

Have you ever worked for a carpet cleaning company at which time you went by
the name "Tanya?"

Respectfully Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

That particular sig line doesn't help alleviate that impression either.

I would be very interested in your definition of a cult

I'd prefer not to have a discussion about the definition of cults.

From the way you write I picture you with a permanent smile and a vacant
stare.

and what is
your impression of my sig line, how does it bother you?

Respectfully, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

It doesn't "bother" me it just adds to your cultish personality.

Keenan Wellar wrote in message news:BDCE0FAD.12800%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/27/04 8:47 AM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in message
news:BDCD7D6C.127E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/26/04 8:36 PM:

Keenan, Keenan, what are we going to do with such vitrol. I realize
that you have not received the post yet that I sent earlier, and this
may pass your response in cyber space. However, this recent post by
you continues to demonstrate the high level of vitrol present in your
post, you need to check your dipstick. High vitrol, leads to
bitterness, resentment and anger, all of which seems to be present. I
hope that you can find a less public dumping ground than a public
forum to work out your issues, though if you choose to continue here,
you are certainly free to do so, and reap the commentary of Retter and
company.

As is often the case, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I misspelled the word "vitriol" above, defined as in caustic quality,
esp. virulence of feeling or of speech. So probably I left you
wondering what I was speaking of when I mentioned "vitrol." I hope
this clarifies what I was talking about. But if it does not, please
let me qualify further. Often times as you respond, it appears that
you are bitter, angry, and resentful. I assume from my googling, that
you are in your 30s, though it is not really important. If you
continue with this vitriol, someday you will be a bitter old man!

The problem was not your spelling.

Now that you have clarified, I thank you for your misplaced concern.

Now having said that, I detect a lowering of the vitriol even in the
last couple of post, and look forward to having a reasonable
conversation.

That would depend on whether or not you will be speaking within the bounds
of reason.

Reason for one, may be madness for the other, but we can try!


I cherish your civil and professional response which I am sure you are
capable of. The one liners, and childish logic demean your
credentials. Retter needles you as being a fool. I don't perceive you
as a fool, so why do you persist in presenting yourself as one?

Sometimes in order to communicate with a child you need to speak in a
child's language.

I assume you are speaking of your discussions with Retter. I will also
assume the two of you have met before, so you may actually be the best
of friends. For that reason I will not come between you, and will let
you work it out with him.

Uh...how to respond in the positive fashion you crave without reinforcing
the strange conclusions...how's this:

Thank you for understanding that my communications with others are none of
your business.


Keenan, if you post publicly, they become public business. However
being civil, we turn away from someone ****ing in public, to allow
them their public indecency. I will be glad to allow you and any
others to continue your ****ing contest, but I will exercise my
privilege of not having to watch!


Even in this last post of yours, you delve into the depths of the
meaning of extro and intro, and totally miss, or should I say ignore
the true meaning of my post.

I found it...odd...that you felt the need to explain what an extrovert is.

I was not pointing out the difference between "extro and intro" so
much as anwering your question as to why Patton is perceived now as
bitter and unstable. His personality shifted when he was no longer in
control. I am sure that you know the difference between the two words
as most readers here would, but I did not want to assume all
understood the dynamic of the shift from an ENTP to an INTP, or worse,
INTJ. You from your professional training may be familiar with these
nuances, but I did not want to assume that either, since I do not know
your exact professional credentials. Maybe I should do some more
googling. In as much as there is only one of you, it is pretty easy!
Luckily for us!

Yeah, great.

Lots of interesting reading, and you have some very creative friends,

http://www.geocities.com/herblovesje...magination.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...kmanonlost.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...manonlost2.jpg



And if that escapes your ability to
comprehend, you also miss the sincere spirit in which I wrote. I do
not find my stability in question, but you are the one that presents a
less than desirable character to be discussing a serious subject. Are
you contrary, for the sake of being contrary, or in the American
Indian sense of the word, if you know what that means?

You've lost me with the American Indian comment.

Some people are contrary just to be mean! However, particularly in the
Souix tribe, there was a group identified as "Contraries". Of course
that was not the word used, but a Souix language word has been
translated as contraries.
The contrary wasn't particularly mean, but went through life doing
things backwards. He walked backwards, and took dirt baths, and wore
his/her clothes backwards, and even learned to talk backwards. Food
that was normally eaten cold, was eaten hot, and vice versus. You
begin to get the point!

The contraries were actually fearsome warriors, because at the time
the conflicting tribes were not so much interested in killing their
enemy, as in counting coup. In the heat of battle, the bravest would
try to get close enough to the adversary to just touch him, and then
get away. If successful they would then capture a part of the spirit
of the one who was touched.

Well, when the contrary came riding into battle, riding backwards. It
would so freak out the other side, who didn't want anything to do with
him, they would often just flee the battlefield. Lest they get touched
by and become under the influence of the contrary spirit.

Now in our society, we would put these crazy folks away, and lock them
up. However, for his own people at that time, he was treated as a
hero, and lived an elevated position in the tribe. Often times, the
men dressed as women, and the women as men. And they usually expressed
the opposite sexual trait as well. Though even that served an accepted
practice and need in the tribe as well. The Souix did not look down
upon the homosexual, but again elevated him because of his dual
spirit.

Now all this has to do with you, if you are contrary because that is
the way you are, or because of a mean spirit. I hope you are not mean,
and that does not imply that any of the rest of the discription
applies either. We are in a different place and a different time.
However, I believe that there is still lots of latitude for personal
expression!

The above description came from the Souix story book, Hanto Yo, which
was originally written in the Souix Language, on a Buffaloe Skin. It
eventually was translated, for publication. Parts of it does sound
familiar to what has gone on this thread, and others, where a bunch of
contrary nitpicking is going on, as if we are trying to count coup on
the other poster, and we prevail when they all leave when things get
too contrary.

That's all very fascinating, but in a fashion that seems typical for you,
you have failed to consider that it may be you who is riding backwards!


Again you are correct, as I may appear to be riding backwards to you.
It did not take Einstein to figure out that all is relative, the Souix
had it figured out a long time ago.


I have no idea as to your stability outside of this forum. It may simply be
your writing style that leaves an unstable impression. To be honest, you
come across as though you are part of some sort of cult.

As far as writing style, I understand, that it may appear unstable,
for you have seen me take different tacks from time to time. I don't
know if you have done any sailing, but tacking is done to make headway
into an opposing and changing wind. And there has been some wild wind
on this thread about wild places. Tacking was necessary, not for the
purpose of deceit, but inorder to arrive where we are today. I know
that I am still the International Man of Mystery, but we are getting
to know each other better, as the mystery is revealed. Yeah...
Baaby!!!!

Have you ever worked for a carpet cleaning company at which time you went by
the name "Tanya?"

Tanya sounds like a character, but no, I have never worked for a
carpet cleaning company, and I am not Tanya. In reading, I found that
you have quite a following, between Tanya, Louise, Sharon, and Sandra,
and almost 9000 post, you have made quite a name for yourself. I still
wonder what the secret is for such prolific postings, and that is just
on the usenet, to say nothing of the rest of your posting activity.

You must be the real superman to do this, and then carry on with your
regular schedule as Clark Kent! When do you ever get time to paddle?

Respectfully Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

That particular sig line doesn't help alleviate that impression either.

I would be very interested in your definition of a cult

I'd prefer not to have a discussion about the definition of cults.

From the way you write I picture you with a permanent smile and a vacant
stare.

and what is
your impression of my sig line, how does it bother you?

Respectfully, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

It doesn't "bother" me it just adds to your cultish personality.

You are again so right, I should start a cult where we are happy, and
only look for the good in others, and don't get down on all the
terrible things happening all the time. But instead we are excited to
be alive, and able to live with the faculties we have, to the fullest
of are capabilities. Making no excuses, and laughing allowed when we
screw up. We would even help each other out of the mud and muck of
life, when we fall down, instead of stepping on the neck of a fallen
comrade, and cursing their name. Yeah....Baaby, that's the kind of
cult I would want to belong in. How about you being the first convert,
all you have to do is start smiling! That really bugs people, they
wonder what you have been up to and if you joined some sort of a cult!
Then all you have to do is ask them to join as well. Now if you smiled
at this at all, you are in! and it is an immediate lifetime
membership, no application rejected!

Keep on smiling, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/28/04 1:10 PM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in message
news:BDCE0FAD.12800%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/27/04 8:47 AM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in message
news:BDCD7D6C.127E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/26/04 8:36 PM:

Keenan, Keenan, what are we going to do with such vitrol. I realize
that you have not received the post yet that I sent earlier, and this
may pass your response in cyber space. However, this recent post by
you continues to demonstrate the high level of vitrol present in your
post, you need to check your dipstick. High vitrol, leads to
bitterness, resentment and anger, all of which seems to be present. I
hope that you can find a less public dumping ground than a public
forum to work out your issues, though if you choose to continue here,
you are certainly free to do so, and reap the commentary of Retter and
company.

As is often the case, I have no idea what you are talking about.

I misspelled the word "vitriol" above, defined as in caustic quality,
esp. virulence of feeling or of speech. So probably I left you
wondering what I was speaking of when I mentioned "vitrol." I hope
this clarifies what I was talking about. But if it does not, please
let me qualify further. Often times as you respond, it appears that
you are bitter, angry, and resentful. I assume from my googling, that
you are in your 30s, though it is not really important. If you
continue with this vitriol, someday you will be a bitter old man!

The problem was not your spelling.

Now that you have clarified, I thank you for your misplaced concern.

Now having said that, I detect a lowering of the vitriol even in the
last couple of post, and look forward to having a reasonable
conversation.

That would depend on whether or not you will be speaking within the bounds
of reason.

Reason for one, may be madness for the other, but we can try!

Indeed.


I cherish your civil and professional response which I am sure you are
capable of. The one liners, and childish logic demean your
credentials. Retter needles you as being a fool. I don't perceive you
as a fool, so why do you persist in presenting yourself as one?

Sometimes in order to communicate with a child you need to speak in a
child's language.

I assume you are speaking of your discussions with Retter. I will also
assume the two of you have met before, so you may actually be the best
of friends. For that reason I will not come between you, and will let
you work it out with him.

Uh...how to respond in the positive fashion you crave without reinforcing
the strange conclusions...how's this:

Thank you for understanding that my communications with others are none of
your business.


Keenan, if you post publicly, they become public business.

Let me restate.

While you are obviously free to offer comments on anything you see here, the
idea that you might or might not come between myself and another, and that
you will "let me work it out" with someone else is a rather pompous
offering, in that I never asked you to mediate said communications, not did
I ever consider requesting such a contribution from you.

However
being civil, we turn away from someone ****ing in public, to allow
them their public indecency. I will be glad to allow you and any
others to continue your ****ing contest, but I will exercise my
privilege of not having to watch!

There are different forms of ****ing. I suggest your urine has soaked this
newsgroup rather thoroughly.

Even in this last post of yours, you delve into the depths of the
meaning of extro and intro, and totally miss, or should I say ignore
the true meaning of my post.

I found it...odd...that you felt the need to explain what an extrovert is.

I was not pointing out the difference between "extro and intro" so
much as anwering your question as to why Patton is perceived now as
bitter and unstable. His personality shifted when he was no longer in
control. I am sure that you know the difference between the two words
as most readers here would, but I did not want to assume all
understood the dynamic of the shift from an ENTP to an INTP, or worse,
INTJ. You from your professional training may be familiar with these
nuances, but I did not want to assume that either, since I do not know
your exact professional credentials. Maybe I should do some more
googling. In as much as there is only one of you, it is pretty easy!
Luckily for us!

Yeah, great.

Lots of interesting reading, and you have some very creative friends,

http://www.geocities.com/herblovesje...magination.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...kmanonlost.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...manonlost2.jpg

Is cyberstalking part of your cultish personality?

And if that escapes your ability to
comprehend, you also miss the sincere spirit in which I wrote. I do
not find my stability in question, but you are the one that presents a
less than desirable character to be discussing a serious subject. Are
you contrary, for the sake of being contrary, or in the American
Indian sense of the word, if you know what that means?

You've lost me with the American Indian comment.

Some people are contrary just to be mean! However, particularly in the
Souix tribe, there was a group identified as "Contraries". Of course
that was not the word used, but a Souix language word has been
translated as contraries.
The contrary wasn't particularly mean, but went through life doing
things backwards. He walked backwards, and took dirt baths, and wore
his/her clothes backwards, and even learned to talk backwards. Food
that was normally eaten cold, was eaten hot, and vice versus. You
begin to get the point!

The contraries were actually fearsome warriors, because at the time
the conflicting tribes were not so much interested in killing their
enemy, as in counting coup. In the heat of battle, the bravest would
try to get close enough to the adversary to just touch him, and then
get away. If successful they would then capture a part of the spirit
of the one who was touched.

Well, when the contrary came riding into battle, riding backwards. It
would so freak out the other side, who didn't want anything to do with
him, they would often just flee the battlefield. Lest they get touched
by and become under the influence of the contrary spirit.

Now in our society, we would put these crazy folks away, and lock them
up. However, for his own people at that time, he was treated as a
hero, and lived an elevated position in the tribe. Often times, the
men dressed as women, and the women as men. And they usually expressed
the opposite sexual trait as well. Though even that served an accepted
practice and need in the tribe as well. The Souix did not look down
upon the homosexual, but again elevated him because of his dual
spirit.

Now all this has to do with you, if you are contrary because that is
the way you are, or because of a mean spirit. I hope you are not mean,
and that does not imply that any of the rest of the discription
applies either. We are in a different place and a different time.
However, I believe that there is still lots of latitude for personal
expression!

The above description came from the Souix story book, Hanto Yo, which
was originally written in the Souix Language, on a Buffaloe Skin. It
eventually was translated, for publication. Parts of it does sound
familiar to what has gone on this thread, and others, where a bunch of
contrary nitpicking is going on, as if we are trying to count coup on
the other poster, and we prevail when they all leave when things get
too contrary.

That's all very fascinating, but in a fashion that seems typical for you,
you have failed to consider that it may be you who is riding backwards!


Again you are correct, as I may appear to be riding backwards to you.

Or, you may in fact be riding backwards.

It did not take Einstein to figure out that all is relative, the Souix
had it figured out a long time ago.

Yes, a clever bunch.

I have no idea as to your stability outside of this forum. It may simply be
your writing style that leaves an unstable impression. To be honest, you
come across as though you are part of some sort of cult.

As far as writing style, I understand, that it may appear unstable,
for you have seen me take different tacks from time to time. I don't
know if you have done any sailing, but tacking is done to make headway
into an opposing and changing wind. And there has been some wild wind
on this thread about wild places. Tacking was necessary, not for the
purpose of deceit, but inorder to arrive where we are today. I know
that I am still the International Man of Mystery, but we are getting
to know each other better, as the mystery is revealed. Yeah...
Baaby!!!!

Have you ever worked for a carpet cleaning company at which time you went by
the name "Tanya?"

Tanya sounds like a character, but no, I have never worked for a
carpet cleaning company, and I am not Tanya.

You may wish to google on Seinfeld episodes in order to understand this
reference.

In reading, I found that
you have quite a following, between Tanya, Louise, Sharon, and Sandra,
and almost 9000 post, you have made quite a name for yourself. I still
wonder what the secret is for such prolific postings, and that is just
on the usenet, to say nothing of the rest of your posting activity.

I tend to keep my posts a bit more to the point than yourself.

You must be the real superman to do this, and then carry on with your
regular schedule as Clark Kent! When do you ever get time to paddle?

Sadly, I did not get out much this year. My posts will no doubt go down next
year as Julie and I are moving to the waterfront, and thus will surely
paddle on a frequent basis.

Respectfully Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

That particular sig line doesn't help alleviate that impression either.

I would be very interested in your definition of a cult

I'd prefer not to have a discussion about the definition of cults.

From the way you write I picture you with a permanent smile and a vacant
stare.

and what is
your impression of my sig line, how does it bother you?

Respectfully, Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

It doesn't "bother" me it just adds to your cultish personality.

You are again so right, I should start a cult where we are happy, and
only look for the good in others, and don't get down on all the
terrible things happening all the time. But instead we are excited to
be alive, and able to live with the faculties we have, to the fullest
of are capabilities. Making no excuses, and laughing allowed when we
screw up. We would even help each other out of the mud and muck of
life, when we fall down, instead of stepping on the neck of a fallen
comrade, and cursing their name. Yeah....Baaby, that's the kind of
cult I would want to belong in. How about you being the first convert,
all you have to do is start smiling!

I spend a lot of time smiling and laughing, but not everything I see is
funny, and serious issues require a serious response from those who believe
that it takes more than "more guns and/or more jesus" to make the world a
better place.

Keenan Wellar wrote in message news:BDCFB1C5.12892%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/28/04 1:10 PM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in message
news:BDCE0FAD.12800%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/27/04 8:47 AM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in message
news:BDCD7D6C.127E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/26/04 8:36 PM:

Keenan, Keenan, what are we going to do with such vitrol.
snipped

As is often the case, I have no idea what you are talking about.

In another discussion, that I tracked down, you were stating that you
were not fluent in French, to which the response was that they doubted
you were fluent in English as well. I begin to wonder the same thing!
At one time, I thought you were Clueless in Canada, now I just wonder!

snipped

look forward to having a reasonable conversation.

That would depend on whether or not you will be speaking within the bounds
of reason.

Reason for one, may be madness for the other, but we can try!

Indeed.

We don't have to try, but yes, we can indeed try, if you would like?

snipped

none of your business.


Keenan, if you post publicly, they become public business.

Let me restate.

While you are obviously free to offer comments on anything you see here, the
idea that you might or might not come between myself and another, and that
you will "let me work it out" with someone else is a rather pompous
offering, in that I never asked you to mediate said communications, not did
I ever consider requesting such a contribution from you.

Keenan, Pompous? You should know about being pompous! As if I would
even want to mediate any communications for you. Retter was doing just
fine calling you the fool, and certainly did not need any help from
me. My only offer was to have a resonable conversation myself, with
someone that I thought was capable of entering into something more
than a ****ing contest. What you do with Retter, is your business, and
I am strictly hands off. There is no might about it, in the future,
you two are on your own.




However
being civil, we turn away from someone ****ing in public, to allow
them their public indecency. I will be glad to allow you and any
others to continue your ****ing contest, but I will exercise my
privilege of not having to watch!

There are different forms of ****ing. I suggest your urine has soaked this
newsgroup rather thoroughly.


And now, you get down and personal with me, and accuse me of soaking
this newsgroup. Hardly, judging from your style, are you in a position
to judge. Check out the following,

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...rovided%2540ho

Who smothers news groups with there ****ing style? Claiming on one
hand to not be able to understand what is clearly said, and then
acting insulted because anyone would question your higher knowledge
and intelligence. Countering and contradicting every point make by
anyone and everyone. I wonder if that is what the experienced posters
were warning me about?


snipped

totally miss, or should I say ignore the true meaning of my post.
snipped

Yeah, great.

Lots of interesting reading, and you have some very creative friends,

http://www.geocities.com/herblovesje...magination.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...kmanonlost.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...manonlost2.jpg

It seems that many are confounded by your posting style, not just me!
and I am trying real hard to give you benefit of the doubt, since we
have just met.


Is cyberstalking part of your cultish personality?

Cyberstalking, again pompous on your part, thinking that I would even
care to stalk you. No, I was encouraged to research those who are
participating in a particular discussion. Prior to that I had been
willing to take, and respond to specific statements made in a
discussion thread, at face value, independet of who was making them.
Obvious to me now, is that those who encouraged me to know my
atagonist, had probably had experience with the atagonist before. They
were probably trying to save me from a fruitless discussion.

I may be the fool, to think that there ever was, or still is hope for
a converstion with real content. But then this is the first time that
I have met you on this or any board, so this discussion has been more
of a curiosity to me than anything else. Cyberstalking, not a chance,
just getting my ducks in a line.

What makes Keenan tick? To get to know you as a person, not just an
impersonal post, disassociated from your environment, and all that you
contribute to that environment. I had no previous knowledge or
experience with you, so I researched. Next time, will be different.
Probably I will have to check out someone else. You will not be the
Belle of the Ball!

Besides, there is that word you don't want to discuss, "cult." Is that
your last line of defiance, to throw that word into a discussion, like
a grenade. A power word, from which I should just run and hide, and
coware because Keenan used the word "cult." Sorry, doesn't work for
me! Nice try, but you are going to have to find something else,
bigger, better, faster, stronger, Man of Steel.


And if that escapes your ability to
comprehend, you also miss the sincere spirit in which I wrote. I do
not find my stability in question, but you are the one that presents a
less than desirable character to be discussing a serious subject. Are
you contrary, for the sake of being contrary, or in the American
Indian sense of the word, if you know what that means?

You've lost me with the American Indian comment.

Some people are contrary just to be mean! However, particularly in the
Souix tribe, there was a group identified as "Contraries".

snipped

That's all very fascinating, but in a fashion that seems typical for you,
you have failed to consider that it may be you who is riding backwards!


Again you are correct, as I may appear to be riding backwards to you.

Or, you may in fact be riding backwards.

It did not take Einstein to figure out that all is relative, the Souix
had it figured out a long time ago.

Yes, a clever bunch.

And some with higher education, haven't figured it out yet! Go figure.



snipped

Have you ever worked for a carpet cleaning company at which time you went by
the name "Tanya?"

Tanya sounds like a character, but no, I have never worked for a
carpet cleaning company, and I am not Tanya.

You may wish to google on Seinfeld episodes in order to understand this
reference.

Well my education continues, I will definitly Google Seinfeld.


In reading, I found that
you have quite a following, between Tanya, Louise, Sharon, and Sandra,
and almost 9000 post, you have made quite a name for yourself. I still
wonder what the secret is for such prolific postings, and that is just
on the usenet, to say nothing of the rest of your posting activity.

I tend to keep my posts a bit more to the point than yourself.

But then the point always remains. What is your point, here and
elsewhere?
What makes you tick? After 9000 post does anyone know, including
yourself?


You must be the real superman to do this, and then carry on with your
regular schedule as Clark Kent! When do you ever get time to paddle?

Sadly, I did not get out much this year. My posts will no doubt go down next
year as Julie and I are moving to the waterfront, and thus will surely
paddle on a frequent basis.

Hey, we're on topic, the waterfront move sounds great. I assume you
mean in Ottawa, what do you mean by water front. Do you have frontage
on a river or lake, or are you just close by? Either way it sounds
great, though I expect that it is pretty cold up there now, and not a
lot of kayaking today.

I googled Ottawa, to learn about your beautiful city, and exactly
where it is located. I know, another dumb American, but I am getting
smarter! I have really never traveled in NE US, so not real familiar
with the geography, and never been able to get to Canada. I can
visualize the St. Lawrence river, but it appears that Ottawa is
located off of the SLR. Are sea going ships able to get into the city
harbor? Does it stay free of ice, or does it ice up? I suppose it
would still be pretty cold water?

When you go kayaking locally, do you go in the Ottawa river, or one of
the other smaller rivers? Seems that dodging big ship could be very
exciting in a very small kayak. It appears that there is water
everywhere you look on the map of that area. You could probably kayak
forever and not see or go everywhere.

Living here in Denver, on the High plains, which is basically a
desert, we have the reservoir, year around, but the river all but
dries up. Of course most of the WW kayakers go up in the mountains
rivers and creeks. But the last few years even that season has been
short, with continuing drought, and low water. There are some other
lakes up in the mtns, that I hope to check out with the Folbot, and do
some camping. But I definitely envy you with all your opportunities
close by.

Keep us posted, and I'll look for pictures and reports on your
website.


Now doesn't that feel much better?


snipped

being the first convert, all you have to do is start smiling!

I spend a lot of time smiling and laughing, but not everything I see is
funny,

Well welcome to the club, er I mean cult then. Now that we got two
members, we need to have a business meeting and come up with a name.
Not really, just joking!

and serious issues require a serious response from those who believe
that it takes more than "more guns and/or more jesus" to make the world a
better place.

Now on a more serious note, just for you. I don't think, that I said
anything about guns, and two, I don't know that Jesus would make the
world a better place. I don't think I said that either. I would say
that Jesus would make you a better person. I do not believe that
religion would do anything for you or anyone, except make you feel
better maybe for a while. What Jesus offers is forever! Two totally
different issues. Religion in whatever form is man reaching up to
"God", Christianity, is God reaching down to man! How high can you
reach?


KOS Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
m...
Keenan Wellar wrote in message
news:BDCFB1C5.12892%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/28/04 1:10 PM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in
message
news:BDCE0FAD.12800%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article , Tinkerntom
at
wrote on 11/27/04 8:47 AM:

Keenan Wellar wrote in
message
news:BDCD7D6C.127E5%UseAddressOnWebPageProvided@h otmail.com...
in article ,
Tinkerntom at
wrote on 11/26/04 8:36 PM:

Keenan, Keenan, what are we going to do with such vitrol.
snipped

As is often the case, I have no idea what you are talking about.

In another discussion, that I tracked down, you were stating that you
were not fluent in French, to which the response was that they doubted
you were fluent in English as well. I begin to wonder the same thing!
At one time, I thought you were Clueless in Canada, now I just wonder!

Sounds incredibly relevant Tom, whatever the hell it is you are talking
about now.

snipped

look forward to having a reasonable conversation.

That would depend on whether or not you will be speaking within the
bounds
of reason.

Reason for one, may be madness for the other, but we can try!

Indeed.

We don't have to try, but yes, we can indeed try, if you would like?

snipped

none of your business.


Keenan, if you post publicly, they become public business.

Let me restate.

While you are obviously free to offer comments on anything you see here,
the
idea that you might or might not come between myself and another, and
that
you will "let me work it out" with someone else is a rather pompous
offering, in that I never asked you to mediate said communications, not
did
I ever consider requesting such a contribution from you.

Keenan, Pompous? You should know about being pompous! As if I would
even want to mediate any communications for you. Retter was doing just
fine calling you the fool, and certainly did not need any help from
me. My only offer was to have a resonable conversation myself, with
someone that I thought was capable of entering into something more
than a ****ing contest. What you do with Retter, is your business, and
I am strictly hands off. There is no might about it, in the future,
you two are on your own.

Then why comment on it?

However
being civil, we turn away from someone ****ing in public, to allow
them their public indecency. I will be glad to allow you and any
others to continue your ****ing contest, but I will exercise my
privilege of not having to watch!

There are different forms of ****ing. I suggest your urine has soaked
this
newsgroup rather thoroughly.


And now, you get down and personal with me, and accuse me of soaking
this newsgroup.

You went first, Tom. I didn't introduce the ****ing, you did, remember?

Hardly, judging from your style, are you in a position
to judge. Check out the following,

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...rovided%2540ho

A discussion about inflation and oil prices? Geezus Tom, if you wanted to
establishing that I can act ****y when posting on usenet, I could have given
you a post ten times better than that one!

Who smothers news groups with there ****ing style? Claiming on one
hand to not be able to understand what is clearly said

Ah. So whatever you say, however you say it, the other person is at fault if
your intent is not both clearly understood and appreciated. Interesting.

and then
acting insulted because anyone would question your higher knowledge
and intelligence.

Are you talking about the time you babbled on about the meaning of
"extrovert" by chance?

Countering and contradicting every point make by
anyone and everyone. I wonder if that is what the experienced posters
were warning me about?

Oooo....the experienced posters were warning you, were they? Of what,
exactly? That I would surf all over the net trying to find out things about
you so that I could introduce unlimited irrelevancy into the discussion here
on rec.boats.paddle?

snipped

totally miss, or should I say ignore the true meaning of my post.
snipped

Yeah, great.

Lots of interesting reading, and you have some very creative friends,

http://www.geocities.com/herblovesje...magination.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...kmanonlost.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...manonlost2.jpg

It seems that many are confounded by your posting style, not just me!

Why does it seem that way? Who is confounded?

and I am trying real hard to give you benefit of the doubt, since we
have just met.

The benefit of what doubt?

Is cyberstalking part of your cultish personality?

Cyberstalking, again pompous on your part, thinking that I would even
care to stalk you. No, I was encouraged to research those who are
participating in a particular discussion.

Encouraged...by whom? Your cult masters? Is something controlling you, Tom?
If so, is there a chance for you to get away from them? How can we help?

Prior to that I had been
willing to take, and respond to specific statements made in a
discussion thread, at face value, independet of who was making them.

OK...

Obvious to me now, is that those who encouraged me to know my
atagonist, had probably had experience with the atagonist before. They
were probably trying to save me from a fruitless discussion.

It sounds like an awful lot of people are concerned about you, Tom.

I may be the fool, to think that there ever was, or still is hope for
a converstion with real content. But then this is the first time that
I have met you on this or any board, so this discussion has been more
of a curiosity to me than anything else. Cyberstalking, not a chance,
just getting my ducks in a line.

What ducks?

What makes Keenan tick? To get to know you as a person, not just an
impersonal post, disassociated from your environment, and all that you
contribute to that environment. I had no previous knowledge or
experience with you, so I researched. Next time, will be different.
Probably I will have to check out someone else. You will not be the
Belle of the Ball!

Resarching by googling in newsgroups is likely to be a very limited means of
getting to know someone, Tom.

Besides, there is that word you don't want to discuss, "cult." Is that
your last line of defiance, to throw that word into a discussion, like
a grenade. A power word, from which I should just run and hide, and
coware because Keenan used the word "cult." Sorry, doesn't work for
me! Nice try, but you are going to have to find something else,
bigger, better, faster, stronger, Man of Steel.

Tom, I can promise you 100% that I was in fact certain that you would not be
the least bit troubled by it.


And if that escapes your ability to
comprehend, you also miss the sincere spirit in which I wrote. I
do
not find my stability in question, but you are the one that
presents a
less than desirable character to be discussing a serious subject.
Are
you contrary, for the sake of being contrary, or in the American
Indian sense of the word, if you know what that means?

You've lost me with the American Indian comment.

Some people are contrary just to be mean! However, particularly in
the
Souix tribe, there was a group identified as "Contraries".

snipped

That's all very fascinating, but in a fashion that seems typical for
you,
you have failed to consider that it may be you who is riding
backwards!


Again you are correct, as I may appear to be riding backwards to you.

Or, you may in fact be riding backwards.

It did not take Einstein to figure out that all is relative, the Souix
had it figured out a long time ago.

Yes, a clever bunch.

And some with higher education, haven't figured it out yet! Go figure.

Not surprising in the least.

snipped

Have you ever worked for a carpet cleaning company at which time you
went by
the name "Tanya?"

Tanya sounds like a character, but no, I have never worked for a
carpet cleaning company, and I am not Tanya.

You may wish to google on Seinfeld episodes in order to understand this
reference.

Well my education continues, I will definitly Google Seinfeld.

Excellent!

In reading, I found that
you have quite a following, between Tanya, Louise, Sharon, and Sandra,
and almost 9000 post, you have made quite a name for yourself. I still
wonder what the secret is for such prolific postings, and that is just
on the usenet, to say nothing of the rest of your posting activity.

I tend to keep my posts a bit more to the point than yourself.

But then the point always remains. What is your point, here and
elsewhere?
What makes you tick? After 9000 post does anyone know, including
yourself?

It would depend on the topic at hand, Tom.

You must be the real superman to do this, and then carry on with your
regular schedule as Clark Kent! When do you ever get time to paddle?

Sadly, I did not get out much this year. My posts will no doubt go down
next
year as Julie and I are moving to the waterfront, and thus will surely
paddle on a frequent basis.

Hey, we're on topic, the waterfront move sounds great. I assume you
mean in Ottawa, what do you mean by water front. Do you have frontage
on a river or lake, or are you just close by? Either way it sounds
great, though I expect that it is pretty cold up there now, and not a
lot of kayaking today.

Our back yard (or front yard depending on one's perspective) will in fact be
on the Ottawa River. Very exciting. I intend to paddle until the water
freezes up, at which point a rink will be made and I'll play hockey on it
instead.

I googled Ottawa, to learn about your beautiful city, and exactly
where it is located. I know, another dumb American, but I am getting
smarter! I have really never traveled in NE US, so not real familiar
with the geography, and never been able to get to Canada. I can
visualize the St. Lawrence river, but it appears that Ottawa is
located off of the SLR. Are sea going ships able to get into the city
harbor? Does it stay free of ice, or does it ice up? I suppose it
would still be pretty cold water?

No sea ships. There are a number of areas on the Ottawa that are currently
impassible, although from time to time a plot surfaces to make it fully
navigable.

When you go kayaking locally, do you go in the Ottawa river, or one of
the other smaller rivers? Seems that dodging big ship could be very
exciting in a very small kayak. It appears that there is water
everywhere you look on the map of that area. You could probably kayak
forever and not see or go everywhere.

Tom, I thought you'd been to my kayaking website! Perhaps you should have
spent more time there instead of googling my participation on usenet.

Living here in Denver, on the High plains, which is basically a
desert, we have the reservoir, year around, but the river all but
dries up. Of course most of the WW kayakers go up in the mountains
rivers and creeks. But the last few years even that season has been
short, with continuing drought, and low water. There are some other
lakes up in the mtns, that I hope to check out with the Folbot, and do
some camping. But I definitely envy you with all your opportunities
close by.

Interesting...this is a pretty good whitewater area. I am a "sea kayaker"
myself so often a bit of a trip is in order to get full enjoyment.

Keep us posted, and I'll look for pictures and reports on your
website.

Now doesn't that feel much better?

I was aware that I wasn't feeling well. But if you feel, better, that's
good!

snipped

being the first convert, all you have to do is start smiling!

I spend a lot of time smiling and laughing, but not everything I see is
funny,

Well welcome to the club, er I mean cult then. Now that we got two
members, we need to have a business meeting and come up with a name.
Not really, just joking!

Funny, Tom.

and serious issues require a serious response from those who believe
that it takes more than "more guns and/or more jesus" to make the world a
better place.

Now on a more serious note, just for you. I don't think, that I said
anything about guns, and two, I don't know that Jesus would make the
world a better place.

Sorry Tom, that was actually a generic comment.

I don't think I said that either. I would say
that Jesus would make you a better person. I do not believe that
religion would do anything for you or anyone, except make you feel
better maybe for a while. What Jesus offers is forever! Two totally
different issues. Religion in whatever form is man reaching up to
"God", Christianity, is God reaching down to man! How high can you
reach?


KOS Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

Tom, take it slow, you are sounding scary again.

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
m...
And now, you get down and personal with me, and accuse me of soaking
this newsgroup. Hardly, judging from your style, are you in a position
to judge. Check out the following,

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...rovided%2540ho


Umm, Tom, I'm going to put on my 'guide' hat here, because you need one at
this point.

If you insist on pasting single snippets from other threads (which is
generally frowned upon in Usenet, (see below)), or if you want to paste long
URLs, use a shortcutting site. For example, go to www.tinyurl.com or
www.makeashorterlink.com and paste the monster link in, and it will give you
a shortcut to the same site. The entire above link was abbreviated to
http://tinyurl.com/55543, for example.

Everything you post on usenet is replicated on millions of servers
worldwide. The long URLs are considered a tremendous waste of bandwidth;
doesn't seem like much, but when you multiply it by all the times it happens
on all newsgroups, times all the computers it happens on, times all the days
and all the years it happens, you get the idea of why there are protocols.

That's also the reason people usually cut threads down instead of just
replicating the entire thread each time. Its not to be rude, and shouldn't
be to be deflective (although granted, it often gets used for that), but to
be efficient.


Lots of interesting reading, and you have some very creative friends,

http://www.geocities.com/herblovesje...magination.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...kmanonlost.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...manonlost2.jpg

It seems that many are confounded by your posting style, not just me!
and I am trying real hard to give you benefit of the doubt, since we
have just met.


Is cyberstalking part of your cultish personality?

Cyberstalking, again pompous on your part, thinking that I would even
care to stalk you. No, I was encouraged to research those who are
participating in a particular discussion. Prior to that I had been
willing to take, and respond to specific statements made in a
discussion thread, at face value, independet of who was making them.
Obvious to me now, is that those who encouraged me to know my
atagonist, had probably had experience with the atagonist before. They
were probably trying to save me from a fruitless discussion.


Umm, that would be me that encouraged you. Let me be more specific, because
I was definately not trying to warn you away from a fruitless experience
with an antagonist, be it Keenan, Wilko, me or anyone else. I was trying to
help YOU from becoming a clueless newbie, repeating rather common newbie
errors, and unwittingly (or otherwise) finding yourSELF as the antagonist.

(Now, I know you can split hairs and say "I said "MY antagonist", etc, but
my message is the same: you are misconstruing why I encouraged you to
research people.)

First of all, what you are doing to Keenan, as much as you might not intend
it to be, IS a form of Cyberstalking. What makes it so is that your intent
is to cause him harm: in specific, you are trying to discredit or compromise
him by researching his previous posts and using what he said against him. If
he goes a single step further and asks you to cease, you are legally (in the
US, at least) required to do so. Otherwise, you can be reported to net.abuse
sites, and your Usenet priviledges will be revoked. There are many faqs out
there with advice on how to use Usenet and avoid common pitfalls like how to
avoid cyberstalking, how to avoid plagarizing people, when you can and
cannot repost what people have written (for example, you should not post
content of private emails to you), and how to conduct reasonable
conversations. It may SEEM like a people are arguing a certain way here, but
the truth is that you are crossing all sorts of lines regularly, and
apparently (I hope) not even knowing it. There is a great difference between
'researching' and 'cyberstalking'.

What you are intending to do seems reasonable on the surface: to find out
about who he is from his previous posts. But, as you said, with 9000+ posts
under his belt, taking a few phrases out of context is at best bad form, and
at worse, really really bad form. Now, in your defense, I will acknowledge
that this is a common thing to do with some things like Biblical references:
people go nuts over things like "In 5th Thessalations, chapter 9, verse 6,
subparagraph b, clause 6, the Great Poohbah used the word "OUT" instead of
"OUTSIDE", which clearly means that he is referring to....." etc etc.
But in usenet (and in real life), this type of nitpicking detail is pretty
obtruse and inaccurate. Someone could come in, and just from your own dozen
or so posts (note the difference: I'm guessing you have a dozen or so posts
which clearly means I have not spent the evening pouring over statistic
sites, trying to find out as much about you as possible to be used against
you in some argument, but instead am just tossing out a polite
conversational approximation...very different imagery, no?) Anyway, in your
own dozen or so posts, before you reconsidered your rocky arrival here,
there is PLENTY of harvestable fruit for someone to throw at you, in detail,
to win some lame argument later on. And if someone DID do that, you'd pretty
quickly see how offensive and especially how inaccurate it is.



I may be the fool, to think that there ever was, or still is hope for
a converstion with real content. But then this is the first time that
I have met you on this or any board, so this discussion has been more
of a curiosity to me than anything else. Cyberstalking, not a chance,
just getting my ducks in a line.

What makes Keenan tick? To get to know you as a person, not just an
impersonal post, disassociated from your environment, and all that you
contribute to that environment. I had no previous knowledge or
experience with you, so I researched. Next time, will be different.
Probably I will have to check out someone else. You will not be the
Belle of the Ball!


See, there it is again. You just crossed the line again: you are making a
'threat' (although you don't see it that way, I'm sure) to 'Cyberstalk'
someone else. Yes, you *should* research people: not knowing Wilko was from
outside the US was a stupid error on your part, especially as you flamed him
for something, assuming he was American. By 'research', I mean to learn
about people so you know who you are discussing, not to gather picayune
'ammo' to later throw at them to try to win some argument points. And
especially not to go LOOKING for ammo that fits whatever specific argument
that you are currently having. When you were accused of being 'contrary',
Keenan was trying to point out to you that you are doing all sorts of things
(here in rbp, at least) that are way contrary to convention and protocol,
and worse yet, you don't even know it. Your response was to continue doing
it.

And even more, you are doing the exact thing that you claim to despise in
the 'elite intellectual liberal': you are taking a small amount of
knowledge, accurate or not, and twisting it to serve your purpose, and
defiantly digging in with your point of view (in this case, your use of
quotations and your posting style).

You need to read some Usenet faqs, and you really ought to consider what you
are really here for. Its looking like you are trying to learn about arguing
on Usenet, but (maybe in typical ENTP style?) by creating your own set of
rules, roughly shaped on twisting the advice of others and your own
observations to your own advantage. All your discussions so far have the
same imagery to me, like seeing someone who is obviously new at something
standing in a crowd, yelling their own 'expert' opinion at the top of their
lungs, while pretty much everyone around them is rolling their eyes at the
newbie with the big ego and poor skills.

Just trying to help out; whatever point you are trying to make with Keenan
is lost in the noise.

YMMV.
--riverman

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
m...

Lots of interesting reading, and you have some very creative friends,
http://www.geocities.com/flamingpoul...manonlost2.jpg

I think your cyberstalking may have offended the individual who made the
creations that you linked from. It's just not a good practice, and if you
continue it, I suspect you will offend others as well.

Tinkerntom wrote:

In another discussion, that I tracked down,

Wow! What is your secret weapon? Are you the Internet Administrator? You
are all powerful, no?

you were stating that you
were not fluent in French, to which the response was that they doubted
you were fluent in English as well. I begin to wonder the same thing!

At one time, I thought you were Clueless in Canada, now I just wonder!

Yes, well let me help you: The "R" on your shoe stands for "Right"...I'll
give you 24 hours to figure out what the "L" stands for.



Keenan, Pompous?

No, Keenan Wellar...are you stupid?

You should know about being pompous! As if I would
even want to mediate any communications for you.

Yet being antagonistic and petulant is more productive?

Retter was doing just
fine calling you the fool, and certainly did not need any help from
me.

Then shut the **** up, why don't you?

My only offer was to have a resonable conversation myself, with
someone that I thought was capable of entering into something more
than a ****ing contest.

Yes, well all your name-calling certainly supports that staement! You are a
master of debate!

What you do with Retter, is your business, and
I am strictly hands off. There is no might about it, in the future,
you two are on your own.

Again, please shut the **** up then.


And now, you get down and personal with me, and accuse me of soaking
this newsgroup.

Yes, that was such a personal shot! You should call his ISP and get him
kicked!


It seems that many are confounded by your posting style, not just me!
and I am trying real hard to give you benefit of the doubt, since we
have just met.

OK, go back and finish Grade 7, then try reading it again, dip****.



Is cyberstalking part of your cultish personality?

Cyberstalking, again pompous on your part, thinking that I would even
care to stalk you.

Yet you reply to each and every one of his posts...methinks you're in love!

What makes Keenan tick? To get to know you as a person, not just an
impersonal post, disassociated from your environment, and all that you
contribute to that environment. I had no previous knowledge or
experience with you, so I researched. Next time, will be different.

What the ****? Are you really that self-important. What does any of this
have to do with boating anyways?

Probably I will have to check out someone else. You will not be the
Belle of the Ball!

Oh, a stalker scorned!


Besides, there is that word you don't want to discuss, "cult." Is that
your last line of defiance, to throw that word into a discussion, like
a grenade.

Like 'pompous' and '****y', the way you have been doing? How's the view
from so high on your horse?

A power word, from which I should just run and hide, and
coware because Keenan used the word "cult." Sorry, doesn't work for
me! Nice try, but you are going to have to find something else,
bigger, better, faster, stronger, Man of Steel.

You are clearly delusional.



And some with higher education, haven't figured it out yet! Go figure.

Are you still talking about your english comprehension skills? Boy, you are
hard on yourself.



Well my education continues, I will definitly Google Seinfeld.

I'm surprised you can spell "Google"


But then the point always remains. What is your point, here and
elsewhere?
What makes you tick? After 9000 post does anyone know, including
yourself?

I think you have a crush on Keenan...

KOS Tinkerntom, aka KnesisKnosis, Life, Live it!

You mean POS?

Boatin' Buddy!