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#31
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"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... It would be impossible to ascribe a single motivation to the entire group of people voting for Bush. Ahhhhhh, I see we are in agreement. So it is very possible that the opinions expressed on right wing radio are not representative of the the majority of people who vote for a Republican candidate. Thank you very much. |
#32
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Gould,
I know you can measure the audience of right wing radio listeners, my point is you are making statements not based upon any facts, just your gut feel. What are the number of registered Republicans? What is the listening audience of right wing radio and by that I mean what percent of registered Republicans regularly listed to Rush, Hannity or Savage (whoever that is). Where are you getting your information from. Where did you get your estimate of 5-10% of the audience being liberals? You keep pulling "facts" out of your ass, and then assuming them to be correct and using this incorrect information to validate your theories about the right. I do not listen to Fox news. I prefer CNN TV for national news, and a local station for local news. On the radio I prefer NPR on the Radio and MSNBC and CNN on the internet. I do find all of them biased in their presentation, but I found Fox to be the worse. I have not listened to Rush in 3 or 4 years. I haven't listened to Hannity in over 6 months, and then very infrequently. Have you heard me repeating the same "talking points" within a day or two of their broadcast? Or are you talking about other great minds? You are not only guilty of what you are accusing the radio talking heads of doing, but you are so blinded by your hatred of Bush, don't realize you are doing it. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Ahhhhhh, I see we are in agreement. So it is very possible that the opinions expressed on right wing radio are not representative of the the majority of people who vote for a Republican candidate. Thank you very much. Not so fast. We can measure the audience of right wing radio listeners. Discounting the 5-10% that are liberals like myself spying on the other camp, that leaves a number probably about equal to the number of registered Republicans in the US. Not that they're always the same people, just a similar number. And, not so fast again. The same "talking points" recommended by Limbaugh, Hannity, and Savage always seem, just coincidentally, to appear within a day or two (often word for word) in communications of right wingers who swear up and down they *never* listen to hate radio. Best defense you'd have is that "great minds think alike." Great minds, indeed. |
#33
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"Gould 0738" wrote in message
... And, not so fast again. The same "talking points" recommended by Limbaugh, Hannity, and Savage always seem, just coincidentally, to appear within a day or two (often word for word) in communications of right wingers who swear up and down they *never* listen to hate radio. The listeners can't even filter what they hear based on whether it's too embarrassing to repeat. Hence, we have the "Kerry looks French" crowd. Gimme a break. |
#34
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You are not only guilty of what you are accusing the radio talking heads of
doing, but you are so blinded by your hatred of Bush, don't realize you are doing it. Not at all. I fully realize that I'm expressing an opinion. My opinion should be clear. The current administration is unethical, fiscally irresponsible, and careless with the security of the United States. My opinion is that it is time for a change. Here's the difference between the R's "mud" and the D's "mud". The D's have the advantage of being able to point to four floundering years of GWB, and they can factually establish "Bush did this, Bush did that, Bush failed to do this and that." Of course, as far as certain studies are concerned, those oberservations of objective fact, based on historical record, are "negative campaigning". When the R's get wound up, they use their advantage: Nobody knows how Kerry would behave as POTUS as he has never held the office. They use this lack of information to arrive at all sorts of ridiculous and outrageous conclusions that are Olympic broadjumps of convoluted logic away from any recorded fact. Most of the time it's down to: "Kerry will do this and that (speculative conjecture) based upon the fact that he has said or done (something that doesn't exist outside Republican spin machines or is a total out of context distortion). Somebody else seems to be the party fixated on having his or her opinions validated by some outside survey, report, study, or what not. Forgive me if I'm not impressed- I can find a study, survey, or report to substantiate almost *anything* |
#35
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Gould,
When you express your opinion you are doing the exact same thing the talking heads do when they express their opinion. No one can say what Kerry would have done in similar situations, no one can say what the economic situation would be if Kerry was president for the last 4 years Any opinion that Kerry would do better is pure speculation. When I show long term studies by the University of Mich, that tracks voting trends you want to scream I can find a survey that says anything I want. Now find any survey or study, that shows democrats are better educated than republicans. Find me one survey or study that shows those democrats are better informed than republicans. Find one person who does not believe the Univ. of Michigan study of voting trends in the US is a faulty study and is biased. It is reviewed by 100's of college professors who use their raw data in their research. If a respected university was gathering incorrect raw data you would be able to easily find those who disagree with their data. You got your feathers all ruffled when I disputed your theory concerning democrats being better informed and better educated than the republicans who rely on talk radio to make their decisions. Your theory was your opinion and I showed two very respected Universities who disagreed with you. Since when is unsubstantial opinion more valuable than high profile unbiased studies? I will be waiting on your validation your preposterous theory. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... You are not only guilty of what you are accusing the radio talking heads of doing, but you are so blinded by your hatred of Bush, don't realize you are doing it. Not at all. I fully realize that I'm expressing an opinion. My opinion should be clear. The current administration is unethical, fiscally irresponsible, and careless with the security of the United States. My opinion is that it is time for a change. Here's the difference between the R's "mud" and the D's "mud". The D's have the advantage of being able to point to four floundering years of GWB, and they can factually establish "Bush did this, Bush did that, Bush failed to do this and that." Of course, as far as certain studies are concerned, those oberservations of objective fact, based on historical record, are "negative campaigning". When the R's get wound up, they use their advantage: Nobody knows how Kerry would behave as POTUS as he has never held the office. They use this lack of information to arrive at all sorts of ridiculous and outrageous conclusions that are Olympic broadjumps of convoluted logic away from any recorded fact. Most of the time it's down to: "Kerry will do this and that (speculative conjecture) based upon the fact that he has said or done (something that doesn't exist outside Republican spin machines or is a total out of context distortion). Somebody else seems to be the party fixated on having his or her opinions validated by some outside survey, report, study, or what not. Forgive me if I'm not impressed- I can find a study, survey, or report to substantiate almost *anything* |
#36
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I will be waiting on your validation your preposterous theory.
Dredging up a study to support your point works pretty well if you are discussing something with a person who is easily intimidated or impressed by an organization of fact. Of course, you don't mention that there have been, literally, hundreds of studies done and that many of them disagree with one another. In fact, you get into hot water when you try to use as many as *two* studies to support your point- as they usually disagree in some very significant details. Example: Take your premise that Republicans are smarter than Democrats, (based on the dubious assumption that one becomes progressively more intelligent with additional time in school. Is the guy who takes 15 years to graduate high school more intelligent than the kids with whom he started kindergarten? Why not? He spent more time in school) Your "R's are smarter than "D's" has a few studies to support the idea. For instance: In the 1994-2002 General Social Survey, the results reflected that the average Republican has 6/10ths of one year more education than the average Democrat. This study showed that there was not really any statistically significant difference in intellect between the most liberal democrats and the most intelligent rebublicans....what was interesting is that the working class democrats, who tend to be more centrist or conservative, were deemed to be less intelligent than the liberal democrats or the conservative republicans. OK, all well and good, but wait! Oh no! Here's another study called the "National Election Survey" of 2000. Not to rock your boat too badly, it also claims that R's are smarter than D's......but oh, look. The "National Election Survey" subjectively rates intelligence on a 31-point scale, places D's 3.3 points behind R's on that 31-point scale, and says the difference represents "several years of formal education." Well, crap. Seems your studiers and surveyors can't get their spin coordinated, doesn't it? One guy says the difference in education is 6/10th of a year (about one semester in a 16-17 year education).......and the other guy says the difference is "several years." So, how do we reconcile these two studies? Do we use the one study that claims the average R has 6/10th of a year more education than the average D, that the most liberal democrats are as smart as the most conservative republicans, and that the dumbest bricks in the load are the moderate or conservative democrats? Or do we use the study that says the difference is "several years of formal education."? I would suppose it depends entirely on what you hope to "prove" by using the study, doesn't it? It's like a civil or criminal trial. One side brings in charts, graphs, studies, and sworn experts to support its position- and then the other side brings in charts, graphs, studies, an sworn experts to support the opposite side of the question. For anybody to say, "I've got this one survey that says what I want it to say and you're an idiot for not blindly accepting it or for considering other data" might indicate that the idiocy is not confined to the party being called "idiot" in the discussion. |
#37
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Gould,
Your memory must be fading. This conversation started when you said: " Kerry's supporters publish well documented, thoroughly researched items like the one you posted-" "Meanwhile, the right wing relies on slogan, rumor, insult, and easily remembered but out-of-context sound bytes to attract that portion of the electorate that is more numerous, but less mentally adept." Since I did not agree with your theory (or opinion as you call it), and I found it repugnant and elitist. I wanted to see if it held any water. I could not find one report, or one study that agreed with your opinion. All of the studies you found agreed that republicans have a higher level of education than democrats. I then looked for information concerning education and informed voters. Wow, I found a reliable study that did say their is a correlation between education and being informed about the issues and not relying on sound bites. I could not find any information that said democrats were more informed than republicans. Contrary to your assertion, I did not say someone becomes more intelligent the longer they stay in school. I said on the average college graduates have a higher IQ than high school graduates. On the average, those with higher IQ stay in school longer than those with low IQ. Hence my theory that the average college graduate has a higher IQ than the average high school graduate. I did say that nature and nurturing can have a drastic impact on ones intelligence and IQ. Finally, I did not say you had to accept my studies and survey's. I said if you wanted your premise to have any validity you should see if you can find any information that would support your thesis. Obviously you can not. Remember it was you who started slinging the mud concerning republicans lack of intelligence, you should not be so upset when respected Universities publish information that disagrees with your opinion. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... I will be waiting on your validation your preposterous theory. Dredging up a study to support your point works pretty well if you are discussing something with a person who is easily intimidated or impressed by an organization of fact. Of course, you don't mention that there have been, literally, hundreds of studies done and that many of them disagree with one another. In fact, you get into hot water when you try to use as many as *two* studies to support your point- as they usually disagree in some very significant details. Example: Take your premise that Republicans are smarter than Democrats, (based on the dubious assumption that one becomes progressively more intelligent with additional time in school. Is the guy who takes 15 years to graduate high school more intelligent than the kids with whom he started kindergarten? Why not? He spent more time in school) Your "R's are smarter than "D's" has a few studies to support the idea. For instance: In the 1994-2002 General Social Survey, the results reflected that the average Republican has 6/10ths of one year more education than the average Democrat. This study showed that there was not really any statistically significant difference in intellect between the most liberal democrats and the most intelligent rebublicans....what was interesting is that the working class democrats, who tend to be more centrist or conservative, were deemed to be less intelligent than the liberal democrats or the conservative republicans. OK, all well and good, but wait! Oh no! Here's another study called the "National Election Survey" of 2000. Not to rock your boat too badly, it also claims that R's are smarter than D's......but oh, look. The "National Election Survey" subjectively rates intelligence on a 31-point scale, places D's 3.3 points behind R's on that 31-point scale, and says the difference represents "several years of formal education." Well, crap. Seems your studiers and surveyors can't get their spin coordinated, doesn't it? One guy says the difference in education is 6/10th of a year (about one semester in a 16-17 year education).......and the other guy says the difference is "several years." So, how do we reconcile these two studies? Do we use the one study that claims the average R has 6/10th of a year more education than the average D, that the most liberal democrats are as smart as the most conservative republicans, and that the dumbest bricks in the load are the moderate or conservative democrats? Or do we use the study that says the difference is "several years of formal education."? I would suppose it depends entirely on what you hope to "prove" by using the study, doesn't it? It's like a civil or criminal trial. One side brings in charts, graphs, studies, and sworn experts to support its position- and then the other side brings in charts, graphs, studies, an sworn experts to support the opposite side of the question. For anybody to say, "I've got this one survey that says what I want it to say and you're an idiot for not blindly accepting it or for considering other data" might indicate that the idiocy is not confined to the party being called "idiot" in the discussion. |
#38
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Gould,
Your memory must be fading. This conversation started when you said: " Kerry's supporters publish well documented, thoroughly researched items like the one you posted-" "Meanwhile, the right wing relies on slogan, rumor, insult, and easily remembered but out-of-context sound bytes to attract that portion of the electorate that is more numerous, but less mentally adept." And that's true. The Republicans are trolling for votes among the least educated, most easily confused, least circumspect portions of the population. I don't see where I said these mental midgets were Republicans, only that the Republican campaign attempts to appeal to that element. Example: Take the claim that Kerry voted to increase taxes 350 times, or whatever. You will hear the sheeple repeating that as if it had a shred of truth. In fact, the republican spin machine counted a large number of Kerry's votes to *decrease* taxes in the "voted to increase" category! The pseudo logic was that although Kerry was voting to decrease taxes, some Republican introduced a bill to decrease them even more- so if the bill Kerry voted for had passed the tax bill wouldn't be lowered as much as it was when the more aggressive tax cut passed- therefore "increasing" (?!) taxes. Maybe that's how college graduates think in your neck of the woods. We hold them to a higher standard out west. A campaign tactic such as that outlined above won't appeal to people unless those folks are inclined to rely on slogan, rumor, insult, and easily remembered out-of-context sound bytes. |
#39
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"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Gould, Your memory must be fading. This conversation started when you said: " Kerry's supporters publish well documented, thoroughly researched items like the one you posted-" "Meanwhile, the right wing relies on slogan, rumor, insult, and easily remembered but out-of-context sound bytes to attract that portion of the electorate that is more numerous, but less mentally adept." And that's true. The Republicans are trolling for votes among the least educated, most easily confused, least circumspect portions of the population. I don't see where I said these mental midgets were Republicans, only that the Republican campaign attempts to appeal to that element. Example: Take the claim that Kerry voted to increase taxes 350 times, or whatever. You will hear the sheeple repeating that as if it had a shred of truth. In fact, the republican spin machine counted a large number of Kerry's votes to *decrease* taxes in the "voted to increase" category! The pseudo logic was that although Kerry was voting to decrease taxes, some Republican introduced a bill to decrease them even more- so if the bill Kerry voted for had passed the tax bill wouldn't be lowered as much as it was when the more aggressive tax cut passed- therefore "increasing" (?!) taxes. Maybe that's how college graduates think in your neck of the woods. We hold them to a higher standard out west. A campaign tactic such as that outlined above won't appeal to people unless those folks are inclined to rely on slogan, rumor, insult, and easily remembered out-of-context sound bytes. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Both sides are doing it. But I recall the Gore team was handing out cartons of cigarettes to and driving bums to the polls 4 years ago. |
#40
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"Gould 0738" wrote in message news:20040925100551.04530.00001330@mb- The Republicans are trolling for votes among the least educated Not true. Taco Heaven already showed you where Republican voters typically have achieved a higher level of education. |
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