A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt! "Thanks for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply

I immediately thought, "the fuel supply. You shut down a diesel by cutting off
the fuel."

According to the author, the correct answer is supposed to be "Cut off the air
supply." The author recommends "discharging a fire extinguisher into the air
intake."

Well, first off it would need to be the correct type of fire extinguisher. Some
extinguishers are charged with halon (which is no longer legal to mfg in the US
but is imported or recycled from other extinguishers) and a diesel will run
like crazy on halon.

And, I'm aware of emergency shut downs that have been accomplished with CO2
extinguishers, etc. I just thought those were cases where it was impractical to
cut off the fuel supply.

Wouldn't putting a postive stop to the fuel supply from the injector pump be a
more certain solution? "Some" air might get sucked into the air intake along
with the fire suppressant, maybe enough to allow the engine to cough past the
extinguisher discharge and keep running. But, the engine absolutely will not
run without fuel.

Shutting off the fuel very far upstream wouldn't be a good choice, as an engine
can run quite a while on the fuel in lines, filters, etc.

Somebody care to agree, disagree, or show me why my preference for fuel shut
down would be wrong?




http://www.tomorrowsbestseller.com/w...State/book.asp

Gould 0738 wrote:

A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt! "Thanks for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply

I immediately thought, "the fuel supply. You shut down a diesel by cutting off
the fuel."

According to the author, the correct answer is supposed to be "Cut off the air
supply." The author recommends "discharging a fire extinguisher into the air
intake."

Well, first off it would need to be the correct type of fire extinguisher. Some
extinguishers are charged with halon (which is no longer legal to mfg in the US
but is imported or recycled from other extinguishers) and a diesel will run
like crazy on halon.

And, I'm aware of emergency shut downs that have been accomplished with CO2
extinguishers, etc. I just thought those were cases where it was impractical to
cut off the fuel supply.

Wouldn't putting a postive stop to the fuel supply from the injector pump be a
more certain solution? "Some" air might get sucked into the air intake along
with the fire suppressant, maybe enough to allow the engine to cough past the
extinguisher discharge and keep running. But, the engine absolutely will not
run without fuel.

Shutting off the fuel very far upstream wouldn't be a good choice, as an engine
can run quite a while on the fuel in lines, filters, etc.

Somebody care to agree, disagree, or show me why my preference for fuel shut
down would be wrong?



Shut off the fuel supply, block the air intake and keep a load on the
engine. You sure as hell don't want to pump CO2 down the airpipe.




--
Email sent to is never read.

A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt! "Thanks
for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply

I immediately thought, "the fuel supply. You shut down a diesel by cutting
off
the fuel."

According to the author, the correct answer is supposed to be "Cut off the
air
supply." The author recommends "discharging a fire extinguisher into the air
intake."

Well, first off it would need to be the correct type of fire extinguisher.
Some
extinguishers are charged with halon (which is no longer legal to mfg in the
US
but is imported or recycled from other extinguishers) and a diesel will run
like crazy on halon.

And, I'm aware of emergency shut downs that have been accomplished with CO2
extinguishers, etc. I just thought those were cases where it was impractical
to
cut off the fuel supply.

Wouldn't putting a postive stop to the fuel supply from the injector pump be
a
more certain solution? "Some" air might get sucked into the air intake along
with the fire suppressant, maybe enough to allow the engine to cough past the
extinguisher discharge and keep running. But, the engine absolutely will not
run without fuel.

Shutting off the fuel very far upstream wouldn't be a good choice, as an
engine
can run quite a while on the fuel in lines, filters, etc.

Somebody care to agree, disagree, or show me why my preference for fuel shut
down would be wrong?







I've been told that in certain circumstances diesel engines can run on the oil
in the crankcase being sucked into the cylinders, particularly Detroit Diesels.
If this is true, that would make the air shutoff the only correct answer.

Barry

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 10:12:43 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:
Shut off the fuel supply, block the air intake and keep a load on the
engine. You sure as hell don't want to pump CO2 down the airpipe.

=========================

Sounds about right to me. I'd start with shutting off the fuel. That
will work about 99.9% of the time. There's a rare condition however
where the engine will continue to run on it's own crankcase oil, which
gets quickly consumed with disasterous consequences. For that, you
need a way to cut off the air intake.

I once had a dangerous and freak condition where a small sailboat
diesel continued to run at high revs after I had shut it down. As
soon as the engine compartment was opened it stopped running but not
before the smell of gasoline fumes hit me. It turned out that a small
amount of dinghy gas had spilled into the bilge and the diesel was
running on the fumes!

Lucky we weren't blown up.

Served on a diesel powered DER and the snipes kept a bale of rags for
that purpose. In the event of a runaway, dump bale into the air intake
were the instructions. Correct answer must be "cut off air supply."


A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt! "Thanks for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply

I immediately thought, "the fuel supply. You shut down a diesel by cutting off
the fuel."

According to the author, the correct answer is supposed to be "Cut off the air
supply." The author recommends "discharging a fire extinguisher into the air
intake."

Well, first off it would need to be the correct type of fire extinguisher. Some
extinguishers are charged with halon (which is no longer legal to mfg in the US
but is imported or recycled from other extinguishers) and a diesel will run
like crazy on halon.

And, I'm aware of emergency shut downs that have been accomplished with CO2
extinguishers, etc. I just thought those were cases where it was impractical to
cut off the fuel supply.

Wouldn't putting a postive stop to the fuel supply from the injector pump be a
more certain solution? "Some" air might get sucked into the air intake along
with the fire suppressant, maybe enough to allow the engine to cough past the
extinguisher discharge and keep running. But, the engine absolutely will not
run without fuel.

Shutting off the fuel very far upstream wouldn't be a good choice, as an engine
can run quite a while on the fuel in lines, filters, etc.

Somebody care to agree, disagree, or show me why my preference for fuel shut
down would be wrong?

http://www.tomorrowsbestseller.com/w...State/book.asp

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to
shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt!
"Thanks for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply

I immediately thought, "the fuel supply. You shut down a diesel by cutting
off
the fuel."

According to the author, the correct answer is supposed to be "Cut off the
air
supply." The author recommends "discharging a fire extinguisher into the
air
intake."

Well, first off it would need to be the correct type of fire extinguisher.
Some
extinguishers are charged with halon (which is no longer legal to mfg in
the US
but is imported or recycled from other extinguishers) and a diesel will
run
like crazy on halon.

And, I'm aware of emergency shut downs that have been accomplished with
CO2
extinguishers, etc. I just thought those were cases where it was
impractical to
cut off the fuel supply.

Wouldn't putting a postive stop to the fuel supply from the injector pump
be a
more certain solution? "Some" air might get sucked into the air intake
along
with the fire suppressant, maybe enough to allow the engine to cough past
the
extinguisher discharge and keep running. But, the engine absolutely will
not
run without fuel.

Shutting off the fuel very far upstream wouldn't be a good choice, as an
engine
can run quite a while on the fuel in lines, filters, etc.

Somebody care to agree, disagree, or show me why my preference for fuel
shut
down would be wrong?


The early Detroit Diesel 8V71 engines were notorious for the fuel injector
control racks sticking, usually in the in the full fuel position. The normal
"off control" just moved fuel command to the governor (the governor actually
moves the racks) to the "no fuel" position so this clearly is not going to
work.

GM fixed this by putting an air door in the intake manifold. This door is
located in the odd looking 90 degree bend going into the blower. When you
pulled the red emergency stop T-handle on the dash, this door drops and cuts
off the air supply to the engine. The air door shaft is spring loaded and
e-stop just releases it - it has no facility to pull the door back into
position. After this you had to manually reset this door by gaining access
to the engine (usually jacking the cab) and flipping the little lever on the
intake manifold.

This also work in the case of old engines that will run on oil that leaks
past the ring. When you shut them off they just keep limping along. This is
a reliable indication that it is time to rebuild the engine. Usually by then
the exhaust smoke is pretty blue, but the engine seems to work fairly well
otherwise.

Given the huge number of these engines installed in marine applications I
can see the need for the question.

BTW: I never heard a GM rep say this, but as a idea of an external valve for
shutoff in normal engine operation, the injector pumps use the fuel for lube
and run at some high pressures and close tolerances. Between possible
priming problems and potential wear, I don't think that shutting off the
fuel to the engine is a good idea.

Mark Browne

Chuck,
I have to go with the book. I've always heard that you don't want to run
a diesel out of fuel, something to do with it being very difficult to
restart. I hope the book indicates that the fire extinguisher should be
CO2, the owner sure would be mad if used a chemical extinguisher.
Paul

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to
shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt!
"Thanks for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply

I immediately thought, "the fuel supply. You shut down a diesel by cutting
off
the fuel."

According to the author, the correct answer is supposed to be "Cut off the
air
supply." The author recommends "discharging a fire extinguisher into the
air
intake."

Well, first off it would need to be the correct type of fire extinguisher.
Some
extinguishers are charged with halon (which is no longer legal to mfg in
the US
but is imported or recycled from other extinguishers) and a diesel will
run
like crazy on halon.

And, I'm aware of emergency shut downs that have been accomplished with
CO2
extinguishers, etc. I just thought those were cases where it was
impractical to
cut off the fuel supply.

Wouldn't putting a postive stop to the fuel supply from the injector pump
be a
more certain solution? "Some" air might get sucked into the air intake
along
with the fire suppressant, maybe enough to allow the engine to cough past
the
extinguisher discharge and keep running. But, the engine absolutely will
not
run without fuel.

Shutting off the fuel very far upstream wouldn't be a good choice, as an
engine
can run quite a while on the fuel in lines, filters, etc.

Somebody care to agree, disagree, or show me why my preference for fuel
shut
down would be wrong?





http://www.tomorrowsbestseller.com/w...State/book.asp

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:56:08 +0000, Gould 0738 wrote:

A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt! "Thanks for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply


I believe 1. is how my diesel shuts down normally. If that doesn't work, I'd use
"3. release compression". If the engine could find a "sneaky-path" to get fuel,
chances are it could find one to get air, too.

I suppose if I didn't have a compression release, I'd try stuffing things in the
air intake.

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shut off the fuel supply, block the air intake and keep a load on the
engine. You sure as hell don't want to pump CO2 down the airpipe.

Harry, I'm curious why you wouldn't want the engine to breathe CO2.

On the tugs of a company I worked for, we had the large bulkhead-mounted
tanks that could be used to flood the engine room with CO2. We were told to
use them in the case of a runaway engine after closing the engine room air
intakes.

Another thing we were told about a runaway engine is to never position
yourself beside it; always stand in front or behind the engine. That way
when a piston rod comes through the block, you won't get hit. It's obvious
when someone tells you, but it might not be something you think about when
trying to stop a runaway.

Cut off the air supply, either physically or with a CO2 extinguisher. A
runaway diesel will suck up it's own oil and run on that at runaway speeds
even if the fuel is shut off.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
A paragraph in a book I've been sent to review seems to be in error.

Either that, or I'm not properly intuitice about this situation.

The paragraph poses a mulitple choice question. "What is the best way to
shut
down a runaway diesel engine?"

One choice is a throw-away. "Cut off the electrical supply." Bzzzt!
"Thanks for
playing, and we do have some lovely parting gifts for you........"

The other two choices:

1. Cut off the fuel supply

2. Cut off the air supply

I immediately thought, "the fuel supply. You shut down a diesel by cutting
off
the fuel."

According to the author, the correct answer is supposed to be "Cut off the
air
supply." The author recommends "discharging a fire extinguisher into the
air
intake."

Well, first off it would need to be the correct type of fire extinguisher.
Some
extinguishers are charged with halon (which is no longer legal to mfg in
the US
but is imported or recycled from other extinguishers) and a diesel will
run
like crazy on halon.

And, I'm aware of emergency shut downs that have been accomplished with
CO2
extinguishers, etc. I just thought those were cases where it was
impractical to
cut off the fuel supply.

Wouldn't putting a postive stop to the fuel supply from the injector pump
be a
more certain solution? "Some" air might get sucked into the air intake
along
with the fire suppressant, maybe enough to allow the engine to cough past
the
extinguisher discharge and keep running. But, the engine absolutely will
not
run without fuel.

Shutting off the fuel very far upstream wouldn't be a good choice, as an
engine
can run quite a while on the fuel in lines, filters, etc.

Somebody care to agree, disagree, or show me why my preference for fuel
shut
down would be wrong?





http://www.tomorrowsbestseller.com/w...State/book.asp