On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner

Mariner outboard history
Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage.

Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally.

The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner� to invoke a reliable, durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast, high-performance image of the Mercury brand.

Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers, eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new
Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe and the United States; in conjunction with the
American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles.

Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine
was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name.

When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it continued to be sold in direct competition with
Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in 1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same.

In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one
advantage� with its dual outboard brands.

However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing costs for a single outboard brand would be significant.

In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular.

In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals — for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality, expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S.


So now we know...

Interesting.

In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast, Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats, the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha.

Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:39:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/26/2019 10:32 AM, Tim wrote:
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
Sometimes I yearn for the good old days. Firing up a 50 HP Mercury
"Tower of Power" to go water-skiing with the 16' "run-a-bout".
The smell of the blue, unburned mixed fuel wafting in the air
and the oil slicks in the water at idle. Ah ... those were the
days.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

.....


Some of that’s going to happen soon at my place. Only a 115hp “Tower..�



Yeah. When I was a kid a 50 hp outboard was a "big" one.

When I was a youngster (9-10 years old) I was fascinated with
outboard engines and had cutout pictures of all the current
manufacturer's models hanging on my bedroom walls. I remember
I wrote an essay for school on why Mercury was better than
Evinrude or Johnson with all kinds of technical reasons that
I probably made up. I ended it with a sentence that said
for those who disagree, "More Power to You" which was a
Mercury slogan back in the late 50's. I am sure the
woman teacher I had must have been amused but she gave me
an "A" on the essay, citing my clever use of a pun of sorts.

I remember when Merc came out with that whopping 100 HP. My mother's
boss had to have one (1959-60?)
He had it on a 17' Lone Star down at Port Tobacco Md and it was the
baddest boat on the water at that time. I doubt it did much more than
40 tho.

11:32 AMBill
- show quoted text -
We had a 23’ Magnolia cuddly cabin with dual 35’s. Boat was lightweight
and neared 40 with the 35’s. Dad for some reason switched to 45’s.
Performance was the same.
An article on the boats. They borrow our boat trailer to haul the boat to
the dealer in El Cerrito when they hit a bell buoy in daylight in by the
Richmond harbor. Knocked a small hole in the bow near the rub rail.
http://www.fiberglassics.com/library...title=Magnolia

......


20 more hp and no difference in performance? Huh.

And how do you run over a bell buoy like that? Blind I guess..

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
- show quoted text -
My 1989-90 Mariner 3 cyl 2 stroke 75 was identical to the Merc 70 and
the Yamaha 70 except Yamaha used their lower unit. Merc and Mariner
L/Us were the same and basically the same L/U that lives on as the
"Big Foot" on 40s to 60s along with being standard the 70-90.
I put around 4000 hours on that engine and still got $900 for it.
......

I do know that yamaha made mariners small in the late 70s

- show quoted text -
I remember when Merc came out with that whopping 100 HP. My mother's
boss had to have one (1959-60?)
He had it on a 17' Lone Star down at Port Tobacco Md and it was the
baddest boat on the water at that time. I doubt it did much more than
40 tho.

........


Sometimes it seems that 40 on the water feels like 90 on land...

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:
- show quoted text -
Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.

.......
I’ve got a140 v4 and controls laid up for when the merc115 takes a big dump.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:


- show quoted text -
I remember when Merc came out with that whopping 100 HP. My mother's
boss had to have one (1959-60?)
He had it on a 17' Lone Star down at Port Tobacco Md and it was the
baddest boat on the water at that time. I doubt it did much more than
40 tho.

.......


Sometimes it seems that 40 on the water feels like 90 on land...

Yup that is true. When we were at the Teamsters deal at LOTO there was
a guy with a 15' racing skiff with twin Merc 85s on it and that would
go about 60 with 3 people on board. We really thought we were flying.
These days that is any garden variety flats or bass boat.

On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:12:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:
- show quoted text -
Yup that is true. When we were at the Teamsters deal at LOTO there was
a guy with a 15' racing skiff with twin Merc 85s on it and that would
go about 60 with 3 people on board. We really thought we were flying.
These days that is any garden variety flats or bass boat.

.....

Yep and now you see twin 350s on the family pontoon. Stuff that was unheard of 30 and even 20 years ago...

wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:50:09 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 26, 2019 at 9:35:22 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I don’t know if this is allowed but here’s some history on Mercury/Mariner

Mariner outboard history
Competition in the outboard market was tough in the early 1970s, and
Mercury Marine found itself at a slight disadvantage.

Rival engine builder Outboard Marine Corporation (OMC) sold two
outboard brands, Johnson and Evinrude. While Mercury enjoyed equal
market share in the category, it was thought that a second outboard
line could boost Mercury Marine’s distribution, both in the U.S. and internationally.

The new Mercury engine brand was named “Mariner� to invoke a reliable,
durable outboard that would appeal to a different customer than the fast,
high-performance image of the Mercury brand.

Introduced in Australia in 1974 and two years later in the U.S. and
Europe, Mariner instantly doubled the distribution potential for
Mercury Marine. The new outboard brand established a foothold in
Europe, thanks in part to a decision by OMC to sell direct to dealers,
eliminating the loyal, long-term distributors. The new
Mariner Outboard in Australia had proved itself quickly, setting a new
endurance speed record in 1975 during a 546-mile run from Sydney to
Brisbane. An 18-hour running time slashed more than nine hours off the
previous record. In 1976, Mariner Outboards were introduced in Europe
and the United States; in conjunction with the
American debut, three Mariner-powered boats ran up the Mississippi River
from New Orleans to Chicago for a total of 4,500 boat miles.

Mariner was originally built under a joint venture with Yamaha, the
Federal Trade Commission made the unfortunate decision to block the
joint venture with Yamaha nine years after the successful launch of the
Mariner brand, and the details of the original agreement came back to
haunt Brunswick. The FTC felt that Mercury Marine
was monopolizing the market, and the separation of the Mercury and
Mariner brands would bring down prices. In the original agreement, Yamaha
was prohibited to sell the Mariner brand under its own name.

When the FTC ordered Brunswick to sell its shares back to Yamaha, the
door was opened and a new competitor rapidly emerged on the market. In
fact, the dealers had been conditioned to think of Yamaha as a prestige
product so after the FTC decision, Mariner prices increased as it
continued to be sold in direct competition with
Mercury. By the early ’80s, Mariner and Mercury were becoming more
similar than different. When electronic fuel injection was introduced in
1986, the transition was complete; the two outboards were mechanically the same.

In the mid 1990s, the future viability of a second outboard brand was
debated. While the distribution issue lessened as more boats and motors
were sold as a package by U.S. boat builders, Mariner enjoyed a far
larger market share internationally than at home. Still, the perception
remained that OMC would enjoy a “two-to-one
advantage� with its dual outboard brands.

However, the economies of scale did not bode well for a two-brand
strategy. With less risk of losing U.S. sales through a larger number
of committed boat builders, the savings in manufacturing and marketing
costs for a single outboard brand would be significant.

In 1999, the decision was reached to end Mariner sales in the U.S. but
to continue distribution internationally in markets where it remains popular.

In the U.S., loyal Mariner owners were downhearted. Even though Mercury
and Mariner had been the same product — except for paint and decals —
for more than a decade, the faithful never accepted the reality,
expressing a wish for the return of Mariner in the U.S.


So now we know...

Interesting.

In this part of the country, both on inland lakes and at the coast,
Yamaha is the dominant brand. It sure seems that on late-model boats,
the ratio is 7 or 8 out of 10 are Yamaha.

Yamaha is certainly the winner here with Merc being second and then a
smattering of E-Tecs and Suzukis. There are still a few old OMC 2
smokers that just won't die. One of my old redneck buddies loves those
old OMCs and he has a bunch of them he got free or real cheap but he
likes working on motors.


We are seeing a lot more new Suzuki here.

Tim wrote:

11:32 AMBill
- show quoted text -
We had a 23’ Magnolia cuddly cabin with dual 35’s. Boat was lightweight
and neared 40 with the 35’s. Dad for some reason switched to 45’s.
Performance was the same.
An article on the boats. They borrow our boat trailer to haul the boat to
the dealer in El Cerrito when they hit a bell buoy in daylight in by the
Richmond harbor. Knocked a small hole in the bow near the rub rail.
http://www.fiberglassics.com/library...title=Magnolia

.....


20 more hp and no difference in performance? Huh.

And how do you run over a bell buoy like that? Blind I guess..


The boat was really pretty lightweight. Goofing around one day by Berkeley
Pier. Was a section between the launch area that was protected from the
wind. Dad was having a beer in the bar and buddy and I were out hot
ridding the boat. We made a sharp turn and the high winds were about 2’
above the water. Caught the bottom and figured were going fore a swim.
Actually lifted one motor out of the water. I think the lack of
performance increase was probably same props and same RPM max.