On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

On 2/23/2018 5:19 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.



Gun laws obviously vary state to state. I think New York's gun laws
(and maybe Los Angeles) are stiffer in some respects than in
Massachusetts. MA has a long list of banned firearms but it's not
difficult to obtain a license and the laws governing storage, transport,
etc. are no more restrictive than anywhere else. The only real
complaint I have is that MA does not recognize any other state permits,
so few recognize ours. I'd like to see that change.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.

On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a
very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per
100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per
100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January,
authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk
Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun
offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los
Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased'
firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting.
Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control
laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though.


Lots more power than a 9mm. Problem with the .357 is it goes though the
target and hits someone though a house wall or a mile later hits some
innocent bystanders.

On 2/24/18 1:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a
very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per
100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per
100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January,
authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk
Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun
offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los
Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased'
firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting.
Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control
laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though.


Lots more power than a 9mm. Problem with the .357 is it goes though the
target and hits someone though a house wall or a mile later hits some
innocent bystanders.



Well, then, if you have to shoot a thug with your .357 MAG, you should
make sure he is standing in front of a good backstop.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 12:57:12 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:50:48 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 01:05:25 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:19:14 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:56:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:34 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:58:04 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 8:46 AM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:17:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/22/2018 11:44 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:47:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Maybe the fact that the military look alike weapons have extremely high
capacity magazines available.

It is pretty hard to find any kind of gun with a detachable magazine
where they don't have big ones. It is certainly true of the Rugers.



Try to legally buy one in Massachusetts. If you showed up at a range
with one the range safety officer would confiscate it and escort you
from the range ... at least they would at the club I belonged to.


Even with laws as strict as they are in MA, Boston didn't have a very good year in 2017.

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/teen...2017/672133630

"In 2017, Boston is on track to have a murder rate of 8.7 per 100,000 people, compared to the
estimated rates of 3.3 per 100,000 in New York City and 6.8 per 100,000 in Los Angeles, according to
the Brennan Center."

Wonder how this is going to work. "Starting in January, authorities will have a judicial system
devoted exclusively to processing gun offenses in the Suffolk Superior Court after being operated
for more than a decade in the Boston Municipal Court."

A lot of law officers are down on systems which allow gun offenders to get '30 days probation'.


Big cities in Massachusetts are not immune to the rise in gun related
fatalities. Gangs exist here as they do elsewhere in the nation.


But the statistics do point out the ineffectiveness of more stringent gun laws.


I don't read it that way.

He states that although violent crime is down 7 percent the rising
number of deaths in young people is alarming.

"We're seeing kids younger and younger with handguns," Commissioner
Evans said. "They're shooting at each other, that's why we have to work
harder to keep those kids out of that lifestyle."

He also states that half of the incidents are gang related shootings.

Not too many gang members legally purchase firearms, I don't think.

I was referring to Boston's murder rate, higher than New York or Los Angeles, even with the very
strict gun laws in the state. It's not the 'legally purchased' firearms that are causing that, I
don't think. Folks who follow all the gun laws don't do the shooting. Wonder how many of the other
than gang shootings were done by owners of legally acquired firearms.

These people are in the business of selling illegal drugs that they
have no problem finding. Why would it be hard to find illegal guns?
In fact I bet a lot of street level drug deals are trading drugs for
stolen guns.

We're not talking about 'illegal' guns. We're talking about gun control laws. Those apply to the law
abiding, not the drug and illegal gun dealers.

Yeah, why look at the majority of the murders when you can pass more
laws that *might* have an effect on less than 2% of them?
Most of these guns were purchased legally by adults.
Of course that has consequences too. Back in the 60s and 70s it was
all about "Saturday Night Specials". Small caliber, cheap, imported
handguns were banned. Now the thugs are carrying 9mm and .45 Sigs,
Glocks and S&Ws. Was that an improvement? At least when they had a no
name .32 auto, there was a good chance it would jam and you could run
away. Even if they hit you it was a .22, .25 or .32 usually with FMJ
bullets. That is far more survivable than being hit by a high
performance 9mm or .45.


What little I've read on that subject seems to indicate the more
ferocious round is the .357 Magnum. I don't really want to find out,
though.

The old school thinking was that even a .38 was superior to the 9mm
but that was before people started making decent 9mm bullets (or
indecent ones if you like)
The FBI was at the leading edge of that research. They originally
thought the 10mm was going to be their gun but it turned out to be too
hot, even for those guys. Then they pushed back to the .40 S&W but
when the better performing 9mm came along they went to it.
Dead is still dead but I think the old school .357 may not really be
any better than a new 9mm. Now when you put that same technology in a
..357 case, you really have something but only 6 times, not 16-19.
I am old school enough to like my .45
Thanks to Chief/Gunner Rawls I can actually hit what I am aiming at
with it and not really have to think about it much. I also think the
recoil is less than or at least more manageable than the .357 for
quick follow up shots. I think it is like the difference between a
rifle and a shotgun.