On 2/23/2018 3:28 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?


Not at all. I agree with you 100%. I think it should be 21 for *all*
firearms. Don't know if 25 or 30 would fly legally since it's just an
arbitrary age. I agree with the comment by many of the teenaged
students involved in the Florida shootings. If you aren't old enough at
18 to buy beer, you shouldn't be old enough to buy an AR-15.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:28:28 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 3:28 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?


Not at all. I agree with you 100%. I think it should be 21 for *all*
firearms. Don't know if 25 or 30 would fly legally since it's just an
arbitrary age. I agree with the comment by many of the teenaged
students involved in the Florida shootings. If you aren't old enough at
18 to buy beer, you shouldn't be old enough to buy an AR-15.


At least 21 would be good. I think the shooter at Virginia Tech was 21, but most of them, that I can
find data on, were under 21. Seems like that would be a no brainer.

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 4:28:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 3:28 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?


Not at all. I agree with you 100%. I think it should be 21 for *all*
firearms. Don't know if 25 or 30 would fly legally since it's just an
arbitrary age. I agree with the comment by many of the teenaged
students involved in the Florida shootings. If you aren't old enough at
18 to buy beer, you shouldn't be old enough to buy an AR-15.

The biggest problem I have with that is that at 18, you're old enough to be tried as an adult and to die for your country. However, you can't buy a beer or a gun? Uncle Sam can give you one to hold when you're dead. It seems disconnected to me. I do realize that the 18 year olds that are in the armed services are far more mature than some kid living in his parent's basement, or going to college on mom and dad's dime.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:54:40 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:

On Friday, February 23, 2018 at 4:28:35 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/23/2018 3:28 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 13:04:02 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/23/2018 12:21 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 03:24:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:11:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 3:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:21:01 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/22/2018 12:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 07:25:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Here's a weird one. In Massachusetts, one of the most liberal states, a
15 year old can legally purchase and own a long gun with his/her
parent's permission.


If the parents are OK with it, can't a kid have any gun they want at
any age? Who is going to stop them?
I had my first shotgun at 14-15 when I started to hunt but I had a .22
for years before that. I suppose technically it was my dad's, handed
down from my grandfather but I had free access to it and they sold
ammo at the 7-11.


Fortunately, most parents I know personally have more smarts and a sense
of responsibility to allow their kids at any minor age to own guns.


That is Acela corridor thinking again and big city thinking at that.
In the early 60s hunting was a thing most of my friends did before
they could drive and this was just outside of DC in PG county.
Like I said, the 7-11 sold shotgun shells and .22s
I am sure that sounds strange today but you could walk in the woods
all the way from the DC line behind Eastover shopping center and
Forest Heights to the river, down past where National Harbor is now
and never see a thing but woods. That was 4 or 5 square miles
contiguous with the woods behind my house before they built the
interstate. Typically we did not really do much hunting east of 210
but there were some good quail and rabbit fields before you got there,
pretty much where the right of way for I-495 is now. West of 210 there
was just about anything you could expect to find in Maryland.
The strange thing is there is still a pretty big undeveloped parcel
down there right now.



There are plenty people who hunt in Massachusetts and the areas we've
lived in are probably more heavily wooded than your experience in
Maryland. The last house I lived in with my parents as a kid was
surrounded by tens of thousands of acres of woods and undeveloped land.

I still don't know of any parent I know who would allow a minor child to
have his/her very own gun. BB guns, yes. Firearms ... no.



===

I grew up in a semi-rural area of upstate NY and many of my friends
had their own 22s and/or shot guns. Not one was ever injured or
involved in any gun related incident.


Did your friends have AR-15s and have a Rambo mindset?


Now you have changed the subject then haven't you?
You went from "no minor should ever have anything but a BB gun" to
assuming we want our kid to have an AR. That being said, I am sure out
west where it is relatively safe to shoot one, there are teenagers
with ARs. They would usually start with a .22rf and demonstrate that
they are safe and knowledgable first but there are plenty of people
out in flyover country who understand a gun is a tool.



How have I changed the subject? My point was that you really can't
compare what was common 50 years ago to today. AR-15s had not been
invented that I know of and I don't think a teenager could run down
to the local gun store back then and buy a rifle designed for the
military back then.

I have suggested raising the minimum age requirement for the purchase of 'military style' weapons.
As far as I know, the school shooters have all been young. Raising the minimum age to 25 or 30 could
very well slow down the buying by young folks.

You skip over that for some reason. You think it's a stupid idea or what?


Not at all. I agree with you 100%. I think it should be 21 for *all*
firearms. Don't know if 25 or 30 would fly legally since it's just an
arbitrary age. I agree with the comment by many of the teenaged
students involved in the Florida shootings. If you aren't old enough at
18 to buy beer, you shouldn't be old enough to buy an AR-15.

The biggest problem I have with that is that at 18, you're old enough to be tried as an adult and to die for your country. However, you can't buy a beer or a gun? Uncle Sam can give you one to hold when you're dead. It seems disconnected to me. I do realize that the 18 year olds that are in the armed services are far more mature than some kid living in his parent's basement, or going to college on mom and dad's dime.

I've still no problem with 21 years old, for a military style weapon. Yes, they can serve in the
armed forces at 18, but they get a gun and bullets only after a lot of training. And they're sent to
face an enemy only after a whole lot more training. I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

On 2/24/2018 1:03 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.


Wow. That certainly disqualifies all the other honorably discharged vets.

On 2/24/18 1:27 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2018 1:03 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.


Wow.Â* That certainly disqualifies all the other honorably discharged vets.


Not at all...I just think that if there are new rules in guns, they
should apply to everyone.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants. But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under discussion?

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 16:46:21 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 13:03:42 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 2/24/18 12:03 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 07:17:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I could see making an exception for an
individual who has a DD 214 with the honorable discharge

I would grant that exception to anything that has an age limit on it.



Charles Whitman was honorably discharged from the Marines. Lee Harvey
Oswald received a hardship discharge from the Marines. Timothy McVeigh
was honorably discharged from the Army.

Obviously, an honorable discharge wouldn't catch all the deviants. But how many of them used the
weapons under discussion to shoot kids in the schools under discussion?

Well Whitman used a rifle to shoot students but it was a bolt action,
as was Oswald's., McVeigh didn't use a gun at all and racked up a much
higher death count. I am not really sure what point they are making in
an AR 15 rant. It really sounds more like my argument that banning ARs
is pretty meaningless.