On 12/17/2017 12:39 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 05:15:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

It's interesting that of the 35 major denominations of Christianity in
the United States you focus on one of the smallest ...evangelical ...
with your complaints about shoving religion down your throat.Â* Of the
others, I don't know of any that purposely go out and try to convert
anyone.Â* Maybe there are a few but I've never heard of it or experienced
it.

https://undergod.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=000087


Harry thinks any thing remotte;y related to religion is "ramming Jesus
down his throat".
I bet he thinks this is a great policy
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10278



I may laugh at beliefs based on speculation and superstition and
hypocrisy, but it doesn't bother me until or unless it intrudes into
public policy, is supported by tax dollars, influences laws, et cetera.
I don't give a ****, really, what "religious folk" practice in their
churches, religious schools, homes, et cetera. I just wish they'd keep
it in those venues.


"One Nation, under God ...."

On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 13:32:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/17/2017 12:39 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 05:15:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

It's interesting that of the 35 major denominations of Christianity in
the United States you focus on one of the smallest ...evangelical ...
with your complaints about shoving religion down your throat.* Of the
others, I don't know of any that purposely go out and try to convert
anyone.* Maybe there are a few but I've never heard of it or experienced
it.

https://undergod.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=000087


Harry thinks any thing remotte;y related to religion is "ramming Jesus
down his throat".
I bet he thinks this is a great policy
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10278



I may laugh at beliefs based on speculation and superstition and
hypocrisy, but it doesn't bother me until or unless it intrudes into
public policy, is supported by tax dollars, influences laws, et cetera.
I don't give a ****, really, what "religious folk" practice in their
churches, religious schools, homes, et cetera. I just wish they'd keep
it in those venues.


"One Nation, under God ...."


===

"Under God" was a relatively recent addition to the pledge in 1954. I
can remember reciting the pledge without it in my early school years.

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On 12/17/17 1:51 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 13:32:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/17/2017 12:39 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 05:15:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

It's interesting that of the 35 major denominations of Christianity in
the United States you focus on one of the smallest ...evangelical ...
with your complaints about shoving religion down your throat.Â* Of the
others, I don't know of any that purposely go out and try to convert
anyone.Â* Maybe there are a few but I've never heard of it or experienced
it.

https://undergod.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=000087


Harry thinks any thing remotte;y related to religion is "ramming Jesus
down his throat".
I bet he thinks this is a great policy
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10278



I may laugh at beliefs based on speculation and superstition and
hypocrisy, but it doesn't bother me until or unless it intrudes into
public policy, is supported by tax dollars, influences laws, et cetera.
I don't give a ****, really, what "religious folk" practice in their
churches, religious schools, homes, et cetera. I just wish they'd keep
it in those venues.


"One Nation, under God ...."


===

"Under God" was a relatively recent addition to the pledge in 1954. I
can remember reciting the pledge without it in my early school years.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


We stopped reciting that pledge in public school after it was modified
but a couple of teachers said we could recite it without the "under god"
nonsense, so we did. I vaguely recall one grammar school teacher getting
a mild reprimand for for having the kids recite "The Lord's Prayer"
aloud at the beginning of the school day, but that was also stopped.

Once we got out of grammar school and into 7th grade junior high, that
nonsense stopped altogether.

On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 14:08:18 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:


We stopped reciting that pledge in public school after it was modified
but a couple of teachers said we could recite it without the "under god"
nonsense, so we did. I vaguely recall one grammar school teacher getting
a mild reprimand for for having the kids recite "The Lord's Prayer"
aloud at the beginning of the school day, but that was also stopped.

Once we got out of grammar school and into 7th grade junior high, that
nonsense stopped altogether.

That was certainly not true in the DC public school system (PG
either). We did the pledge and the Lord's Prayer from K to 6.
It was never a home room thing in 7.
I am surprised at your school not doing it in the 50s ... Comrade!
;-).

On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 18:53:03 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 14:08:18 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:


We stopped reciting that pledge in public school after it was modified
but a couple of teachers said we could recite it without the "under god"
nonsense, so we did. I vaguely recall one grammar school teacher getting
a mild reprimand for for having the kids recite "The Lord's Prayer"
aloud at the beginning of the school day, but that was also stopped.

Once we got out of grammar school and into 7th grade junior high, that
nonsense stopped altogether.

That was certainly not true in the DC public school system (PG
either). We did the pledge and the Lord's Prayer from K to 6.
It was never a home room thing in 7.
I am surprised at your school not doing it in the 50s ... Comrade!
;-).

Here's the Fairfax County Public Schools policy. It's not changed since I was teaching.

"Pledge of Allegiance, One Minute of Silence

Students are expected to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and to observe one minute of silence each
day, unless the student or his or her parent objects to participation in such exercises.
Nonparticipating students are expected to sit quietly, or to stand silently, and to refrain from
engaging in any disruptive or distracting activity. A student’s decision to participate or not to
participate should be respected."

On 12/17/17 1:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/17/2017 12:39 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 05:15:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

It's interesting that of the 35 major denominations of Christianity in
the United States you focus on one of the smallest ...evangelical ...
with your complaints about shoving religion down your throat.Â* Of the
others, I don't know of any that purposely go out and try to convert
anyone.Â* Maybe there are a few but I've never heard of it or
experienced
it.

https://undergod.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=000087


Harry thinks any thing remotte;y related to religion is "ramming Jesus
down his throat".
I bet he thinks this is a great policy
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10278



I may laugh at beliefs based on speculation and superstition and
hypocrisy, but it doesn't bother me until or unless it intrudes into
public policy, is supported by tax dollars, influences laws, et
cetera. I don't give a ****, really, what "religious folk" practice in
their churches, religious schools, homes, et cetera. I just wish
they'd keep it in those venues.


"One Nation, under God ...."

Probably the worst mistake of the Eisenhower presidency. And sadly
funny. After all, with no proof of the existence of any god, it might
have been termed, one nation under Zeus or one nation under Ra, or some
Egyptian stone god. And if there were a god, how would a mere mortal
know whether his or her nation were under it?

I think the pledge as modified in the Eisenhower presidency violates the
Establishment Clause.

On 12/17/2017 2:03 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 1:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/17/2017 12:39 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 05:15:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

It's interesting that of the 35 major denominations of Christianity in
the United States you focus on one of the smallest ...evangelical ...
with your complaints about shoving religion down your throat.Â* Of the
others, I don't know of any that purposely go out and try to convert
anyone.Â* Maybe there are a few but I've never heard of it or
experienced
it.

https://undergod.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=000087


Harry thinks any thing remotte;y related to religion is "ramming Jesus
down his throat".
I bet he thinks this is a great policy
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10278



I may laugh at beliefs based on speculation and superstition and
hypocrisy, but it doesn't bother me until or unless it intrudes into
public policy, is supported by tax dollars, influences laws, et
cetera. I don't give a ****, really, what "religious folk" practice
in their churches, religious schools, homes, et cetera. I just wish
they'd keep it in those venues.


"One Nation, under God ...."

Probably the worst mistake of the Eisenhower presidency. And sadly
funny. After all, with no proof of the existence of any god, it might
have been termed, one nation under Zeus or one nation under Ra, or some
Egyptian stone god. And if there were a god, how would a mere mortal
know whether his or her nation were under it?

I think the pledge as modified in the Eisenhower presidency violates the
Establishment Clause.


I got curious so I did some reading. Seems that although the majority
of states require a time be allocated for reciting the Pledge of
Allegiance in public schools, most also make it optional.
A few states have no statutes on it at all and about three that I found
do not have a formal "opt out" clause in their current statues.
Surprisingly, Massachusetts is one of them.

Bottom line is that in almost all cases it is voluntary. The 3 or 4
with no formal opt-out clause don't enforce it as a requirement. So, if
it bothers the student or the student's parents, just don't participate.

On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 14:03:48 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

"One Nation, under God ...."

Probably the worst mistake of the Eisenhower presidency. And sadly
funny. After all, with no proof of the existence of any god, it might
have been termed, one nation under Zeus or one nation under Ra, or some
Egyptian stone god. And if there were a god, how would a mere mortal
know whether his or her nation were under it?

I think the pledge as modified in the Eisenhower presidency violates the
Establishment Clause.

The term "god" is far from establishing any particular religion as you
so eloquently pointed out. In fact Jefferson used the term "nature's
god" in the DOI which might have made him our first evangelical
environmentalist.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 1:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/17/2017 12:39 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 12/17/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 05:15:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

It's interesting that of the 35 major denominations of Christianity in
the United States you focus on one of the smallest ...evangelical ...
with your complaints about shoving religion down your throat.Â* Of the
others, I don't know of any that purposely go out and try to convert
anyone.Â* Maybe there are a few but I've never heard of it or
experienced
it.

https://undergod.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=000087


Harry thinks any thing remotte;y related to religion is "ramming Jesus
down his throat".
I bet he thinks this is a great policy
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10278



I may laugh at beliefs based on speculation and superstition and
hypocrisy, but it doesn't bother me until or unless it intrudes into
public policy, is supported by tax dollars, influences laws, et
cetera. I don't give a ****, really, what "religious folk" practice in
their churches, religious schools, homes, et cetera. I just wish
they'd keep it in those venues.


"One Nation, under God ...."

Probably the worst mistake of the Eisenhower presidency. And sadly
funny. After all, with no proof of the existence of any god, it might
have been termed, one nation under Zeus or one nation under Ra, or some
Egyptian stone god. And if there were a god, how would a mere mortal
know whether his or her nation were under it?

I think the pledge as modified in the Eisenhower presidency violates the
Establishment Clause.


Did not establish a state religion.