J. Allan wrote:
Given that the hypothetical goal being discussed was to keep all boats
racing in the last race of the series for the TV cameras, this would be
overkill and reverses the thrust of the RRS to 'decriminalise' these
infringements.

Sorry, was just giving that info to show there is precedent for
excluding individual races from being dropped from the final score.

Personally, I don't think it's wise to "decriminalize" DSQs. I'd be more
in favor of going the other way... maybe kneecapping...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:



Personally, I don't think it's wise to "decriminalize" DSQs. I'd be more
in favor of going the other way... maybe kneecapping...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Not sure I agree. DSQs can be the result of honest misunderstanding of
the rules. Not the same as the fair play rules.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
Not sure I agree. DSQs can be the result of honest misunderstanding of
the rules. Not the same as the fair play rules.

That's what 720s are for. A DSQ is well earned by somebody who gets into
an incident and *thinks* he is totally in the right. Not allowing it to
be discarded would provide incentive to actually learn the rules, and
would increase the level of sportsmanship IMHO.

DSK

DSK wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:

Not sure I agree. DSQs can be the result of honest misunderstanding
of the rules. Not the same as the fair play rules.


That's what 720s are for. A DSQ is well earned by somebody who gets into
an incident and *thinks* he is totally in the right. Not allowing it to
be discarded would provide incentive to actually learn the rules, and
would increase the level of sportsmanship IMHO.

DSK

Again, not sure I agree. There's a sliding scale here between
misjudging something, no impact, but the stand-on boat has to take
evasive action; (2 turns) the case where you honestly think you are
right, but aren't (usually protest & DSQ) and the case I've had where
the port side boat in an ordinary P&S just doesn't give way, despite
hails and all.

A DSQ does concentrate the mind for most people.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:
Again, not sure I agree. There's a sliding scale here between
misjudging something, no impact, but the stand-on boat has to take
evasive action;

But if the give-way boat doesn't do a 720, and the stand-on boat has had
to take evasive action, then the give-way boat has gained an advantage.
If it is an honest mistake then the skipper should be willing to do a
720. Otherwise it is cheating, basically.

The reason the 720 was brought in is so that small errors in judgement
don't result in a DSQ... the sportsmanlike action used to be to withdraw
from a race if one knew one had fouled a competitor. How many people do
you think would do that nowadays?


... (2 turns) the case where you honestly think you are
right, but aren't (usually protest & DSQ) and the case I've had where
the port side boat in an ordinary P&S just doesn't give way, despite
hails and all.

A DSQ does concentrate the mind for most people.

Agreed.

Shucks, if I'm going to protest somebody I almost always do a 720 just
for CYA. Protest committees do some wierd things, I've seen them ignore
clear cut infractions, hand DSQs to stand-on boats, but so far I haven't
had one hand me a DSQ after a 720.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Shucks, if I'm going to protest somebody I almost always do a 720 just
for CYA. Protest committees do some wierd things, I've seen them ignore
clear cut infractions, hand DSQs to stand-on boats, but so far I haven't
had one hand me a DSQ after a 720.


My memory could be playing tricks, but aren't there cases where by
taking a 720 you are admitting blame, and it prevents you from winning a
protest against the other party?

Andy

In article ,
says...
DSK wrote:

Shucks, if I'm going to protest somebody I almost always do a 720 just
for CYA. Protest committees do some wierd things, I've seen them ignore
clear cut infractions, hand DSQs to stand-on boats, but so far I haven't
had one hand me a DSQ after a 720.


My memory could be playing tricks, but aren't there cases where by
taking a 720 you are admitting blame, and it prevents you from winning a
protest against the other party?

Don't see how sailing around in a couple of pointless circles "admits"
anything (some light days I see several boats doing this several times in
one race g). OTOH, if you're in Scoring Penalty land, flying a yellow
flag indicates that you "take" the penalty (RRs 44.3).

John

Andy Champ wrote:
My memory could be playing tricks, but aren't there cases where by
taking a 720 you are admitting blame, and it prevents you from winning a
protest against the other party?

Not as far as i know. There used to be least two IIRC cites in the case
book where a decision along those lines was overturned on appeal. Doing
a 720 is *not* an admission of guilt, although at the moment I can't
point to a specific case for proof.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King