On 3/30/17 7:19 AM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 3/29/2017 7:45 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 18:52:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2017 6:29 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
I'll let you know what I finally get, but I'm leaning towards that HP now. Thousand bucks for all
that seems like a decent deal.

https://www.costco.com/HP-ENVY-17t-L...100317268.html



Looks like a nice one. Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. :-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it.


Get used to paying Microsoft a recurring charge too. That is their
goal. They want subscription software, not pay and run forever.

I have still not found anything I want to do that XP won't do for me.
Maybe I should just follow you guys around and pick up the machines
you throw away. ;-)

Bear in mind I was in the computer biz for 30 years, dealing with
thousands of customers over the years. The ones who were most
successful always ran a generation or two behind the bleeding edge.
Their hardware was field tested, all of the ECs were installed and the
"lemons" were history. (imagine the poor suckers who bought a "noodle
snatcher") The same was true of the software. Older versions had all
of the bugs shaken out.


Doesn't mean squat when the older computer with an older OS ****s the
bed due to a mother board blowing up or the hard drive crashing. I am
not into computer repair or building like you are. When it dies I buy a
new one.




Same here. I used to fix mainframes but since the PC took over and
became a throwaway item i have little interest in monkeying with
hardware. It's hard enough keeping all of the devices talking to
each other.


Well, of course, it isn't *that* difficult, depending on which devices
and what you want them to do when they "communicate."

On 3/30/17 8:39 AM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 3/30/17 7:19 AM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 3/29/2017 7:45 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 18:52:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/29/2017 6:29 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
I'll let you know what I finally get, but I'm leaning towards that HP now. Thousand bucks for all
that seems like a decent deal.

https://www.costco.com/HP-ENVY-17t-L...100317268.html



Looks like a nice one. Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. :-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it.


Get used to paying Microsoft a recurring charge too. That is their
goal. They want subscription software, not pay and run forever.

I have still not found anything I want to do that XP won't do for me.
Maybe I should just follow you guys around and pick up the machines
you throw away. ;-)

Bear in mind I was in the computer biz for 30 years, dealing with
thousands of customers over the years. The ones who were most
successful always ran a generation or two behind the bleeding edge.
Their hardware was field tested, all of the ECs were installed and the
"lemons" were history. (imagine the poor suckers who bought a "noodle
snatcher") The same was true of the software. Older versions had all
of the bugs shaken out.


Doesn't mean squat when the older computer with an older OS ****s the
bed due to a mother board blowing up or the hard drive crashing. I am
not into computer repair or building like you are. When it dies I buy a
new one.




Same here. I used to fix mainframes but since the PC took over and
became a throwaway item i have little interest in monkeying with
hardware. It's hard enough keeping all of the devices talking to
each other.


Well, of course, it isn't *that* difficult, depending on which devices
and what you want them to do when they "communicate."


Without going into details, powerline hits can cause unpredictable
things to happen. Recovery can be easy or it can be
difficult.


Without going into details, I assign a fixed address to every device I
can, and also to my server, which is attached to a large UPS. When we
get a surge or lose power, even if everything momentarily shuts down,
when I restart or if the UPS takes over, the devices seem to hold their
addresses. The phones attach on their own via wi-fi, and don't need a
fixed address...they find the server by name.

On 3/30/2017 11:58 AM, justan wrote:
Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:39:39 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Without going into details, powerline hits can cause unpredictable
things to happen. Recovery can be easy or it can be
difficult.

Power hits can be fairly easily mitigated if you have decent surge
protection and UPS. Working with 1000 customers who refused to turn
off their computers and unplug them every afternoon when we had a
thunderstorm got us pretty good with surge protection. Most of that
knowledge world wide came from Florida.


The only recent hardware failures
I could attribute to powerline
are a gfi outlet and a device that had some operational issues
even after a factory reset and reconfiguration. The only surge
protection we have is built into the mains panel. Most of my
devices are inexpensive and easily replaceable. I can't justify
the cost of individual surge protectors.


Having only a laptop, an iPad, and a networked printer I can't justify
having a UPS either. The laptop and iPad battery last plenty long
enough and the printer has never lost it's connection to the network.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 12:25:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Having only a laptop, an iPad, and a networked printer I can't justify
having a UPS either. The laptop and iPad battery last plenty long
enough and the printer has never lost it's connection to the network.

I haven't bought a UPS in years but I have a bunch. Most people just
chuck them when the battery dies. If you buy batteries from the
manufacturer, they cost almost as much as a new one but they are
commodity items on the net that sell for a fraction of what APC wants.
We have most of the stuff in the living room on UPS (TV, sat box, this
PC etc). I have had power failures and not even noticed until I
noticed the kitchen light went out ;-)
Most are just blips that last a few seconds until the recloser can
operate. That will still put you in the penalty box for 5-10 minutes
until everything reboots and gets going again. Your DVR loses what it
was doing etc.

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 12:25:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Having only a laptop, an iPad, and a networked printer I can't justify
having a UPS either. The laptop and iPad battery last plenty long
enough and the printer has never lost it's connection to the network.

I haven't bought a UPS in years but I have a bunch. Most people just
chuck them when the battery dies. If you buy batteries from the
manufacturer, they cost almost as much as a new one but they are
commodity items on the net that sell for a fraction of what APC wants.
We have most of the stuff in the living room on UPS (TV, sat box, this
PC etc). I have had power failures and not even noticed until I
noticed the kitchen light went out ;-)
Most are just blips that last a few seconds until the recloser can
operate. That will still put you in the penalty box for 5-10 minutes
until everything reboots and gets going again. Your DVR loses what it
was doing etc.

We have six in the house to protect the computers, DVR, etc. The
batteries are much cheaper at Batteries Plus or online.

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:58:44 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:39:39 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Without going into details, powerline hits can cause unpredictable
things to happen. Recovery can be easy or it can be
difficult.

Power hits can be fairly easily mitigated if you have decent surge
protection and UPS. Working with 1000 customers who refused to turn
off their computers and unplug them every afternoon when we had a
thunderstorm got us pretty good with surge protection. Most of that
knowledge world wide came from Florida.


The only recent hardware failuresI could attribute to powerline
are a gfi outlet and a device that had some operational issues
even after a factory reset and reconfiguration. The only surge
protection we have is built into the mains panel. Most of my
devices are inexpensive and easily replaceable. I can't justify
the cost of individual surge protectors.

Surge protection goes farther than simply plugging in a few
protectors. For most of the country, that may work for you but we get
an ass kicking thunderstorm just about every day for half the year.


Our biggest problems in the 80's was Colorado. Lots of lighting, and the
disk controller we had had a **** power supply. Pass transistors that
passed ever line glitch through.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 18:32:45 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:58:44 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:39:39 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Without going into details, powerline hits can cause unpredictable
things to happen. Recovery can be easy or it can be
difficult.

Power hits can be fairly easily mitigated if you have decent surge
protection and UPS. Working with 1000 customers who refused to turn
off their computers and unplug them every afternoon when we had a
thunderstorm got us pretty good with surge protection. Most of that
knowledge world wide came from Florida.


The only recent hardware failuresI could attribute to powerline
are a gfi outlet and a device that had some operational issues
even after a factory reset and reconfiguration. The only surge
protection we have is built into the mains panel. Most of my
devices are inexpensive and easily replaceable. I can't justify
the cost of individual surge protectors.

Surge protection goes farther than simply plugging in a few
protectors. For most of the country, that may work for you but we get
an ass kicking thunderstorm just about every day for half the year.


Our biggest problems in the 80's was Colorado. Lots of lighting, and the
disk controller we had had a **** power supply. Pass transistors that
passed ever line glitch through.

We never really had a problem in the computer room. It was always cash
registers, ATMs and remote terminals that got fried. Pretty much
anything with a wire coming in from outside or long unprotected wires
in the building.
Motels, mall stores with multiple locations in the mall and terminals
running between buildings were the worst.

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 18:32:45 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:58:44 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:39:39 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Without going into details, powerline hits can cause unpredictable
things to happen. Recovery can be easy or it can be
difficult.

Power hits can be fairly easily mitigated if you have decent surge
protection and UPS. Working with 1000 customers who refused to turn
off their computers and unplug them every afternoon when we had a
thunderstorm got us pretty good with surge protection. Most of that
knowledge world wide came from Florida.


The only recent hardware failuresI could attribute to powerline
are a gfi outlet and a device that had some operational issues
even after a factory reset and reconfiguration. The only surge
protection we have is built into the mains panel. Most of my
devices are inexpensive and easily replaceable. I can't justify
the cost of individual surge protectors.

Surge protection goes farther than simply plugging in a few
protectors. For most of the country, that may work for you but we get
an ass kicking thunderstorm just about every day for half the year.


Our biggest problems in the 80's was Colorado. Lots of lighting, and the
disk controller we had had a **** power supply. Pass transistors that
passed ever line glitch through.

We never really had a problem in the computer room. It was always cash
registers, ATMs and remote terminals that got fried. Pretty much
anything with a wire coming in from outside or long unprotected wires
in the building.
Motels, mall stores with multiple locations in the mall and terminals
running between buildings were the worst.


We lost Macy's California Point of Sale terminals to IBM because your sales
guy was smarter. Our sales guy tole Macy's that the data lines had to go
via conduit because of the fluorescent lights. IBM guy said their did not
need conduit. He knew the fire department required conduit. Smarter.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 19:56:37 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

We lost Macy's California Point of Sale terminals to IBM because your sales
guy was smarter. Our sales guy tole Macy's that the data lines had to go
via conduit because of the fluorescent lights. IBM guy said their did not
need conduit. He knew the fire department required conduit. Smarter.

That must be a California thing. If you use plenum rated cable,
properly supported, I know of no fire reg that requires conduit for
low voltage ... and we never had a problem with fluorescent lights, in
spite of the urban legend that would not die. All of our signal cables
were balanced pairs, pretty much immune to the switcher in an
electronic ballast. Sixty hz was never a problem (magnet ballast). I
had 100' of UTP Cat 5 coiled above my desk right on a fluorescent and
I could patch it into any LAN, 3270, S-loop or whatever at the panel
to prove it to the non believers.
You could also watch the data going by on a scope if you wanted.
There were lots of urban legends that got dispelled in the late 80s
when IBM got serious about selling data cabling, LAN management and
communication contracts. Some of us went to school on it. They had a
very cool lab in Dallas where we could learn about just about anything
that goes down a wire. That part was mostly how to do the phone
company's job (breaking the finger pointing tie). That was followed up
by BICSI training for the guys like me who were actually trained for
writing wiring contracts.