On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:12:32 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 07:19:17 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:


Same here. I used to fix mainframes but since the PC took over and
became a throwaway item i have little interest in monkeying with
hardware. It's hard enough keeping all of the devices talking to
each other.

Yet you don't mind learning a new OS every time Bill Gates wants a new
car. The hardware is the easy part


Sure I mind but some of the new hardware and software doesn't play
well with Win 3.1

===

Even in the corporate mainframe world users eventually become forced
into hardware and software upgrades. It's too expensive for the
vendors to make and support software that is backwards compatible with
older hardware, and the hardware vendors have no market incentive to
do more than is absolutely necessary. Eventually the increased
reliability and environmental efficiency of the newer CPUs becomes
compelling and that triggers both hardware and software upgrades.
The same is true with PCs if you want to take advantage of better
graphics, network speeds, larger hard drives, energy efficiency, etc.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 12:18:35 -0400,
wrote:

Even in the corporate mainframe world users eventually become forced
into hardware and software upgrades. It's too expensive for the
vendors to make and support software that is backwards compatible with
older hardware, and the hardware vendors have no market incentive to
do more than is absolutely necessary. Eventually the increased
reliability and environmental efficiency of the newer CPUs becomes
compelling and that triggers both hardware and software upgrades.
The same is true with PCs if you want to take advantage of better
graphics, network speeds, larger hard drives, energy efficiency, etc.

I understand that but if I was running a data center, I would still
stay one or two levels back. Let the pioneers catch the arrows.
XP does not seem to have a problem handling any network speed or hard
drive I throw at it and it is hard to find a PC that uses less power
than an old laptop. It is certainly not going to be that I7 sports car
John is looking at. If energy is an issue, you want the smallest,
slowest machine that will get the job done hence my W/98 server and my
WYSE "thin client" machines.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:48:17 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:12:32 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Yet you don't mind learning a new OS every time Bill Gates wants a new
car. The hardware is the easy part


Sure I mind but some of the new hardware and software doesn't play
well with Win 3.1

The main limitation with W3.1 is in graphics and full motion video.
DOS (the engine under W3 and lower) does a good job with music,
pictures and excels with text based applications. There are DOS tools
that handle text far better than any windows program in a much tighter
package.
I still use "CE3", a subset of the IBM E editor, when I want to select
data and manipulate it from HTML tables or anything else I can paste
from a windows file.

===

I'd argue that the main limitation with Win 3.1 was the lack of
working memory, and I/O bandwidth. I used to get frequent memory
crashes back in the day if I tried to have more than a couple of
windows open at the same time that I was browsing the web with
Netscape. Windows 98 and Win NT fixed some of that but it really
wasn't until Win 7 that things really stabilized. I push my machines
fairly hard with a number of different apps running more or less
continuously. I was never able to do that reliably prior to Win 7.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 14:24:59 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:48:17 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:12:32 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

Yet you don't mind learning a new OS every time Bill Gates wants a new
car. The hardware is the easy part


Sure I mind but some of the new hardware and software doesn't play
well with Win 3.1

The main limitation with W3.1 is in graphics and full motion video.
DOS (the engine under W3 and lower) does a good job with music,
pictures and excels with text based applications. There are DOS tools
that handle text far better than any windows program in a much tighter
package.
I still use "CE3", a subset of the IBM E editor, when I want to select
data and manipulate it from HTML tables or anything else I can paste
from a windows file.

===

I'd argue that the main limitation with Win 3.1 was the lack of
working memory, and I/O bandwidth. I used to get frequent memory
crashes back in the day if I tried to have more than a couple of
windows open at the same time that I was browsing the web with
Netscape. Windows 98 and Win NT fixed some of that but it really
wasn't until Win 7 that things really stabilized. I push my machines
fairly hard with a number of different apps running more or less
continuously. I was never able to do that reliably prior to Win 7.

I never really used W3.1 that much. I was a DOS guy and there were
software work arounds that got past Bill Gates thinking 640K was
enough for anyone. DOS dBase IV was smart enough to use all the memory
you could throw at it. I found the diminishing returns came at around
2 meg. I had 6.5m on my AT machine and I kept 4m in a Ram Drive. If I
was in a hurry, I loaded the whole directory, program, data etc to the
ram drive and executed it there. dBase really screams if it is all in
RAM, even on an old 8 mz 286.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Woodiy%20AT.jpg

Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
"Looks like a nice one. Â*Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. Â*:-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. Â*This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. Â*Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it."


One good thing about the two trips my HP NoteBook made to the repair center....it came back with Windows 8 after the 2nd trip and that's what I've been using on it since last July.

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 7:54:42 PM UTC-4, True North wrote:
Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
"Looks like a nice one. Â*Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. Â*:-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. Â*This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. Â*Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it."


One good thing about the two trips my HP NoteBook made to the repair center...it came back with Windows 8 after the 2nd trip and that's what I've been using on it since last July.

Win8 sucks. Everyone thinks so. Too bad you didn't take the free Win10 upgrade while it lasted.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:54:41 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
"Looks like a nice one. *Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. *:-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. *This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. *Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it."


One good thing about the two trips my HP NoteBook made to the repair center...it came back with Windows 8 after the 2nd trip and that's what I've been using on it since last July.

When I bought my desktop, Win 8 was just out a few months. The dealer told me he'd load Win 7 and
that I should wait until the next version *after* Win 8 came out. You must be one of the lucky ones!

Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:54:41 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
"Looks like a nice one. Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. :-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it."


One good thing about the two trips my HP NoteBook made to the repair center...it came back with Windows 8 after the 2nd trip and that's what I've been using on it since last July.
When I bought my desktop, Win 8 was just out a few months. The dealer told me he'd load Win 7 and
that I should wait until the next version *after* Win 8 came out. You must be one of the lucky ones!


What does this have to do with guns?

On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 20:22:31 -0400, Alex wrote:

Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 16:54:41 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -
"Looks like a nice one. Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. :-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it."


One good thing about the two trips my HP NoteBook made to the repair center...it came back with Windows 8 after the 2nd trip and that's what I've been using on it since last July.
When I bought my desktop, Win 8 was just out a few months. The dealer told me he'd load Win 7 and
that I should wait until the next version *after* Win 8 came out. You must be one of the lucky ones!


What does this have to do with guns?

Hey, we both use our 'puters to buy guns!

By the way, Carmen is loving that SR1911 more and more each time we shoot it.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 18:52:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2017 6:29 PM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
I'll let you know what I finally get, but I'm leaning towards that HP now. Thousand bucks for all
that seems like a decent deal.

https://www.costco.com/HP-ENVY-17t-L...100317268.html



Looks like a nice one. Now that a few of us have suggested HP, you'll
probably have all kinds of problems with it. :-)

I am also starting to shop for a new laptop. This one is getting a bit
long in the tooth although it still works fine. Not too excited about
Win 10 though, but I suppose I'll get used to it.


That's OK. If I have all kinds of problems, I'll just blame you folks!