On Tuesday, November 22, 2016 at 1:06:33 PM UTC-8, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 15:57:33 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 13:56:29 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/22/16 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:55:10 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:20:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:30:44 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I got rid of my first motorcycle after a bizarre accident in Kansas that
left both me and the bike uninjured, thanks to a quickly falling
snowstorm. Traded the Honda for a nice, safe, used Chevy.

One of my best sources for rice burning motor cycles was from people
who bought them thinking they were the perfect commuter vehicle. All
it took was the first wisp of snow or a little black ice on the road
and they were real cheap but they usually needed a little work. ;-)
I put them back together, shined them up and sold them in the spring.
One year I threw a Honda 350 in my van, took it to Florida and paid
for my trip. It sold in a day.

Going down on ice usually doesn't do any severe damage...few scratches, turn signals, maybe brake or
clutch lever.

Experience talking...luckily with a small Honda 125. I was in uniform going to work at Ft. Belvoir.
MPs stopped and told me I wasn't allowed to ride a motorcycle when there was snow on the roads. I
didn't challenge him, but I still wonder if that 'law' really existed!

That sounds more like a base restriction.

As for damage, you do OK unless you hit something. The RD350 Yammy I
got cheap had 2 bent fork tubes. I thought I would be truing the front
wheel but it survived OK.
I had to paint the tank on a 125 I picked up and replace some stuff
missing from the right handlebar.
I learned how to paint with rattle cans in those days. The Yamaha
paint job was a 3 step process. The trick, as with any spray painting
is never stop moving and pulse the valve.


I wonder if "survival" of bike and rider is as true today, what with the
much more massive bikes and faster speeds and plastic parts...

If you have a road bike with crash bars and you can just lay it down,
stay tucked in and you will be OK as a general rule but hitting
something head on is always bad.
The only time I ever laid a bike down or even got hurt was dirt
riding. My Benelli was fun out in the woods but I did crash a few
times

You do realize that a bike sliding on its side has less traction than an upright bike with the
brakes applied. Laying a bike down looks good in the movies, but the bike will stop faster with the
brakes.

I'm in John's camp when I comes to braking versus "Had to lay her down"
Then again I'm one to talk!
I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule.

Hope you and the bike heal 100%.

Thanks.
I need to start taking it slower, or as my wife asked me, "are you finished playing in the dirt now..
I guess I just don't heal as well as I used to.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 16:06:36 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 15:57:33 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 13:56:29 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/22/16 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:55:10 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:20:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:30:44 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I got rid of my first motorcycle after a bizarre accident in Kansas that
left both me and the bike uninjured, thanks to a quickly falling
snowstorm. Traded the Honda for a nice, safe, used Chevy.

One of my best sources for rice burning motor cycles was from people
who bought them thinking they were the perfect commuter vehicle. All
it took was the first wisp of snow or a little black ice on the road
and they were real cheap but they usually needed a little work. ;-)
I put them back together, shined them up and sold them in the spring.
One year I threw a Honda 350 in my van, took it to Florida and paid
for my trip. It sold in a day.

Going down on ice usually doesn't do any severe damage...few scratches, turn signals, maybe brake or
clutch lever.

Experience talking...luckily with a small Honda 125. I was in uniform going to work at Ft. Belvoir.
MPs stopped and told me I wasn't allowed to ride a motorcycle when there was snow on the roads. I
didn't challenge him, but I still wonder if that 'law' really existed!

That sounds more like a base restriction.

As for damage, you do OK unless you hit something. The RD350 Yammy I
got cheap had 2 bent fork tubes. I thought I would be truing the front
wheel but it survived OK.
I had to paint the tank on a 125 I picked up and replace some stuff
missing from the right handlebar.
I learned how to paint with rattle cans in those days. The Yamaha
paint job was a 3 step process. The trick, as with any spray painting
is never stop moving and pulse the valve.


I wonder if "survival" of bike and rider is as true today, what with the
much more massive bikes and faster speeds and plastic parts...

If you have a road bike with crash bars and you can just lay it down,
stay tucked in and you will be OK as a general rule but hitting
something head on is always bad.
The only time I ever laid a bike down or even got hurt was dirt
riding. My Benelli was fun out in the woods but I did crash a few
times

You do realize that a bike sliding on its side has less traction than an upright bike with the
brakes applied. Laying a bike down looks good in the movies, but the bike will stop faster with the
brakes.

I am not talking about intentionally laying it down but that can just
happen if you get to aggressive with the brakes, particularly in the
woods.
OTOH
If you are going to hit something, having tires and springs out in
front is better than counting on your face shield to save you. ;-)

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 18:18:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/22/2016 4:41 PM, Tim wrote:

3:06 PMPoquito Loco
- show quoted text -
You do realize that a bike sliding on its side has less traction than an upright bike with the
brakes applied. Laying a bike down looks good in the movies, but the bike will stop faster with the
brakes.
....

Nope. I disagree. I laid down my cb450 Honda just moments before it slid and slammed into 88 yr. old "grannie blue-hair" who had just pulled out in front of me. She was driving a 1972 Buick Electra 225 and I swear she couldn't see over the steering wheel!


Ha! That's what riding in Florida was all about. I used to head for
the roads less traveled.


It is just nuts here. I rode that harley a couple of times and I was
done.

Poquito Loco wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 21:59:31 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 20:04:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/21/2016 7:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 15:35:28 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 12:11:59 -0800 (PST), True North
wrote:

.
It's registered as a truck and the insurance company rates it as a truck.
I had a VW based dune buggy with a 36HP motor and no bumpers and it
was titled as a 1/2 ton truck in Maryland so that does not mean much.

Maryland and Nova Scotia/Canada share vehicle definition criteria or is
this just more of your "same same" delusion?

How do you rate a closed SUV as a truck? Where is the load bed? In
California, if was rated as a truck, would pay extra for commercial plates,
unless all you hauled was suitcases.
Same way you call a van a truck.

If you have a van without side windows in the back, then is a commercial
plate van.

I think the difference in modern vechicles is body on frame versus
unibody construction. The 4Runner is body on frame, which is a truck
chassis. Small vans are usually of unibody construction ... car chassis
basically.
I did a little looking at the CFR that regulates the MCO and they
separate the vehicles as Passenger car, Multipurpose vehicle (SUV)
Truck, Motorcycle, Trailer and incomplete vehicle on the MCO. (and in
the VIN)
There may also be an indicator of body style but that is not defined
in the CFR. It ends up in the manufacturer defined fields of the VIN
if it is there. (position 4-7)
I've done some checking of my own. My Moto Guzzi is definitely a motorcycle. Krause's Ducati is a
dream.

True.

On 11/22/2016 7:04 PM, wrote:

Hope you and the bike heal 100%.

Thanks.
I need to start taking it slower, or as my wife asked me, "are you finished playing in the dirt now..
I guess I just don't heal as well as I used to.



Frankly, the main reason I sold my last motorcycle was because I was
starting to feel less comfortable with my reflexes and ability to avoid
potential accidents. Never had a major issue but in your 60's your
reaction time (for most of us anyway) just isn't the same as in your
30's. That, plus the fact that the bike (Harley Ultra Classic) was
close to 900lbs and was becoming a bit of a chore to push around. Maybe
if I had kept a Softail or something a bit lighter, I would still be riding.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 13:41:37 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:


3:06 PMPoquito Loco
- show quoted text -
You do realize that a bike sliding on its side has less traction than an upright bike with the
brakes applied. Laying a bike down looks good in the movies, but the bike will stop faster with the
brakes.
....

Nope. I disagree. I laid down my cb450 Honda just moments before it slid and slammed into 88 yr. old "grannie blue-hair" who had just pulled out in front of me. She was driving a 1972 Buick Electra 225 and I swear she couldn't see over the steering wheel!

Hey, disagreement is good. But, I'll take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's party line and use my
brakes, especially the front one. If the road's wet, I'll be going down anyway! When someone pulls
out in front, the brakes and counter-steering are the life saviors to trust. Trust me!

Some views:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=226

http://www.claydugas.com/auto-accide...-avoid-injury/

https://rideapart.com/articles/lay-er (A Good one!)

http://motorcycle-central.com/how-to...ur-motorcycle/

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/mo...t-2-46474.html

http://motorcycleviews.com/general/m...clemyths_2.htm

http://timoconnorattorney.com/motorc...ce-techniques/

"If you guys remember the movie "Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man" Big John Studd had a
completely valid reason to lay his bike down. So I'll say this, if your friends rob an armored car,
end up in a gunfight with guys in Kevlar trench coats and you need to blow up your bike to save
them, go ahead and lay the bike down. Otherwise, it is probably not a good idea.
Later," [From: http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php?topic=40105.0]

Just go into google and type "lay motorcycle down or use brakes". You'll get a lot of hits!

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 18:15:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 11/22/2016 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:55:10 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:20:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:30:44 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I got rid of my first motorcycle after a bizarre accident in Kansas that
left both me and the bike uninjured, thanks to a quickly falling
snowstorm. Traded the Honda for a nice, safe, used Chevy.

One of my best sources for rice burning motor cycles was from people
who bought them thinking they were the perfect commuter vehicle. All
it took was the first wisp of snow or a little black ice on the road
and they were real cheap but they usually needed a little work. ;-)
I put them back together, shined them up and sold them in the spring.
One year I threw a Honda 350 in my van, took it to Florida and paid
for my trip. It sold in a day.

Going down on ice usually doesn't do any severe damage...few scratches, turn signals, maybe brake or
clutch lever.

Experience talking...luckily with a small Honda 125. I was in uniform going to work at Ft. Belvoir.
MPs stopped and told me I wasn't allowed to ride a motorcycle when there was snow on the roads. I
didn't challenge him, but I still wonder if that 'law' really existed!

That sounds more like a base restriction.

As for damage, you do OK unless you hit something. The RD350 Yammy I
got cheap had 2 bent fork tubes. I thought I would be truing the front
wheel but it survived OK.
I had to paint the tank on a 125 I picked up and replace some stuff
missing from the right handlebar.
I learned how to paint with rattle cans in those days. The Yamaha
paint job was a 3 step process. The trick, as with any spray painting
is never stop moving and pulse the valve.


While attending ET school in GLakes I rode a Honda 350 back and forth
from our apartment because my wife needed the car. During the winter
the base would not allow the bike "on base", so I had to park it outside
the main gate. Wasn't fun riding it in snow and I would never recommend it.


We disagree. My little Honda 125 was an on/off road bike, didn't have knobby tires, but they were
almost knobby. I'd take it into the woods at Ft. Belvoir and have a blast riding in the snow. Wore a
snowmobile suit. Went down a few times, but never anything serious. Probably put half a dozen new
turn signals on that thing.

But, commuting in the winter with ice and snow is something I sure as hell wouldn't do now. I
learned that one the hard way.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 19:11:58 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 18:18:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/22/2016 4:41 PM, Tim wrote:

3:06 PMPoquito Loco
- show quoted text -
You do realize that a bike sliding on its side has less traction than an upright bike with the
brakes applied. Laying a bike down looks good in the movies, but the bike will stop faster with the
brakes.
....

Nope. I disagree. I laid down my cb450 Honda just moments before it slid and slammed into 88 yr. old "grannie blue-hair" who had just pulled out in front of me. She was driving a 1972 Buick Electra 225 and I swear she couldn't see over the steering wheel!


Ha! That's what riding in Florida was all about. I used to head for
the roads less traveled.


It is just nuts here. I rode that harley a couple of times and I was
done.

I-95 between here and Richmond is no fun either. If I'm going south I'll leave at 4am just to be
through Richmond before rush hour.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 15:55:21 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, November 22, 2016 at 1:06:33 PM UTC-8, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 15:57:33 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 13:56:29 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/22/16 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:55:10 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:20:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:30:44 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I got rid of my first motorcycle after a bizarre accident in Kansas that
left both me and the bike uninjured, thanks to a quickly falling
snowstorm. Traded the Honda for a nice, safe, used Chevy.

One of my best sources for rice burning motor cycles was from people
who bought them thinking they were the perfect commuter vehicle. All
it took was the first wisp of snow or a little black ice on the road
and they were real cheap but they usually needed a little work. ;-)
I put them back together, shined them up and sold them in the spring.
One year I threw a Honda 350 in my van, took it to Florida and paid
for my trip. It sold in a day.

Going down on ice usually doesn't do any severe damage...few scratches, turn signals, maybe brake or
clutch lever.

Experience talking...luckily with a small Honda 125. I was in uniform going to work at Ft. Belvoir.
MPs stopped and told me I wasn't allowed to ride a motorcycle when there was snow on the roads. I
didn't challenge him, but I still wonder if that 'law' really existed!

That sounds more like a base restriction.

As for damage, you do OK unless you hit something. The RD350 Yammy I
got cheap had 2 bent fork tubes. I thought I would be truing the front
wheel but it survived OK.
I had to paint the tank on a 125 I picked up and replace some stuff
missing from the right handlebar.
I learned how to paint with rattle cans in those days. The Yamaha
paint job was a 3 step process. The trick, as with any spray painting
is never stop moving and pulse the valve.


I wonder if "survival" of bike and rider is as true today, what with the
much more massive bikes and faster speeds and plastic parts...

If you have a road bike with crash bars and you can just lay it down,
stay tucked in and you will be OK as a general rule but hitting
something head on is always bad.
The only time I ever laid a bike down or even got hurt was dirt
riding. My Benelli was fun out in the woods but I did crash a few
times

You do realize that a bike sliding on its side has less traction than an upright bike with the
brakes applied. Laying a bike down looks good in the movies, but the bike will stop faster with the
brakes.

I'm in John's camp when I comes to braking versus "Had to lay her down"
Then again I'm one to talk!
I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule.

There's always the helmet story exception:

"I'd never wear a helmet 'cause a helmet's what killed a buddy of mine! He went down and slid off a
cliff, and his helmet strap got caught on a tree, and it busted his neck damn near clean in two!"