On 12/2/2015 8:09 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 12/1/2015 10:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The
reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

American cars aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
When I bought my car going on 10 years ago the only initial problem was
with the smart wheel. Since then I had some problems with the seals in
the AC. I just kept recharging it until the seals magically healed
themselves. I put a couple of batteries in it and tomorrow I am treating
it to a new set of sneakers. They have 10 years on them and slightly
less than 50,000 miles.


What's a "smart wheel"?

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:09:12 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

It is not unusual for my Prelude. (Basically a Civic in a sport
jacket).
I try to stay within the quasi legal 80 or so but I find myself
creeping up occasionally ;-)

On Wed, 02 Dec 2015 08:45:44 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 22:23:11 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.

Cheap-assed tranny if you ask me. Only 18 years? Damn, what a piece of crap!

Could your propensity to kick it to 90mph whenever you were behind the wheel have
anything to do with that? How often did you hold the brake, race the engine, and let
go the brake to out run the Mustang next to you at a stop light.

You've already admitted to being a hot-rodder, so we'll leave those questions in the
'rhetorical' category!


We had an old accord and there was a known problem with the
transmission that you could temporarily fix by taking off the battery
cable for a second. I don't remember the details but it was
software/electronic related. That showed up in the 150-160k mile
range.
We ended up just selling it. The funny thing was we had swapped the 89
accord with my daughter and I took her 86 Chrysler LeBanon. The
Lebanon outlasted the Honda. (after I fixed the steering problem that
prompted the swap in the first place)

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 10:15:49 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



What's a "smart wheel"?


Controls on the steering wheel?

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:09:12 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 12/1/2015 10:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

American cars aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
When I bought my car going on 10 years ago the only initial problem was
with the smart wheel. Since then I had some problems with the seals in
the AC. I just kept recharging it until the seals magically healed
themselves. I put a couple of batteries in it and tomorrow I am treating
it to a new set of sneakers. They have 10 years on them and slightly
less than 50,000 miles.

Other than the glow plugs, my truck has given me no problems. I'm thinking I got
ripped off with the first glow plug problem. The place said it was a bad plug and a
bad glow plug module. Cost me about $750.

A couple months ago the check engine light came on, the reader said glow plug #4.
This time I decided to attempt the replacement myself. Pain in the butt 'cause the
wheel well cover has to be removed to get to the damn thing. Anyway, got the new one
in and cranked the engine. Damn light still came on. Then a friend told me it might
take a few cycles for the computer to get itself straight. Sure enough, after about
my third trip somewhere the CE light stayed off.

The point is, I now wonder if the repair place actually ran the truck through a few
cycles before deciding the problem was more than the glow plug and replacing the
module. I suppose they could have, but I have my doubts.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


I had to replace the module to pass smog. Do not really need the glow
plugs here due to not much freezing weather. The module had or has a
tendency to break the connections to the board inside. Get an ODB2 reader
and you can check the codes and reset them. Reader is less than a hundred.
Mine, I had to replace the connectors to injector 2 and 7. GM made the
lines a little short and the connector wears out. Bought mine off the
internet for about $50 and the module about 175.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:59:04 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:09:12 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 12/1/2015 10:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

American cars aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
When I bought my car going on 10 years ago the only initial problem was
with the smart wheel. Since then I had some problems with the seals in
the AC. I just kept recharging it until the seals magically healed
themselves. I put a couple of batteries in it and tomorrow I am treating
it to a new set of sneakers. They have 10 years on them and slightly
less than 50,000 miles.

Other than the glow plugs, my truck has given me no problems. I'm thinking I got
ripped off with the first glow plug problem. The place said it was a bad plug and a
bad glow plug module. Cost me about $750.

A couple months ago the check engine light came on, the reader said glow plug #4.
This time I decided to attempt the replacement myself. Pain in the butt 'cause the
wheel well cover has to be removed to get to the damn thing. Anyway, got the new one
in and cranked the engine. Damn light still came on. Then a friend told me it might
take a few cycles for the computer to get itself straight. Sure enough, after about
my third trip somewhere the CE light stayed off.

The point is, I now wonder if the repair place actually ran the truck through a few
cycles before deciding the problem was more than the glow plug and replacing the
module. I suppose they could have, but I have my doubts.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


I had to replace the module to pass smog. Do not really need the glow
plugs here due to not much freezing weather. The module had or has a
tendency to break the connections to the board inside. Get an ODB2 reader
and you can check the codes and reset them. Reader is less than a hundred.
Mine, I had to replace the connectors to injector 2 and 7. GM made the
lines a little short and the connector wears out. Bought mine off the
internet for about $50 and the module about 175.

I got an OBII dongle that blue tooths to my laptop.
It was about $10

On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:59:04 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:09:12 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 12/1/2015 10:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

American cars aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
When I bought my car going on 10 years ago the only initial problem was
with the smart wheel. Since then I had some problems with the seals in
the AC. I just kept recharging it until the seals magically healed
themselves. I put a couple of batteries in it and tomorrow I am treating
it to a new set of sneakers. They have 10 years on them and slightly
less than 50,000 miles.

Other than the glow plugs, my truck has given me no problems. I'm thinking I got
ripped off with the first glow plug problem. The place said it was a bad plug and a
bad glow plug module. Cost me about $750.

A couple months ago the check engine light came on, the reader said glow plug #4.
This time I decided to attempt the replacement myself. Pain in the butt 'cause the
wheel well cover has to be removed to get to the damn thing. Anyway, got the new one
in and cranked the engine. Damn light still came on. Then a friend told me it might
take a few cycles for the computer to get itself straight. Sure enough, after about
my third trip somewhere the CE light stayed off.

The point is, I now wonder if the repair place actually ran the truck through a few
cycles before deciding the problem was more than the glow plug and replacing the
module. I suppose they could have, but I have my doubts.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


I had to replace the module to pass smog. Do not really need the glow
plugs here due to not much freezing weather. The module had or has a
tendency to break the connections to the board inside. Get an ODB2 reader
and you can check the codes and reset them. Reader is less than a hundred.
Mine, I had to replace the connectors to injector 2 and 7. GM made the
lines a little short and the connector wears out. Bought mine off the
internet for about $50 and the module about 175.

I'm now the proud owner of a reader. From what I understand, the reader will say the
problem is a glow plug, but it might be the plug, the wire, or the module.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:59:04 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:09:12 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 12/1/2015 10:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

American cars aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
When I bought my car going on 10 years ago the only initial problem was
with the smart wheel. Since then I had some problems with the seals in
the AC. I just kept recharging it until the seals magically healed
themselves. I put a couple of batteries in it and tomorrow I am treating
it to a new set of sneakers. They have 10 years on them and slightly
less than 50,000 miles.

Other than the glow plugs, my truck has given me no problems. I'm thinking I got
ripped off with the first glow plug problem. The place said it was a bad plug and a
bad glow plug module. Cost me about $750.

A couple months ago the check engine light came on, the reader said glow plug #4.
This time I decided to attempt the replacement myself. Pain in the butt 'cause the
wheel well cover has to be removed to get to the damn thing. Anyway, got the new one
in and cranked the engine. Damn light still came on. Then a friend told me it might
take a few cycles for the computer to get itself straight. Sure enough, after about
my third trip somewhere the CE light stayed off.

The point is, I now wonder if the repair place actually ran the truck through a few
cycles before deciding the problem was more than the glow plug and replacing the
module. I suppose they could have, but I have my doubts.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


I had to replace the module to pass smog. Do not really need the glow
plugs here due to not much freezing weather. The module had or has a
tendency to break the connections to the board inside. Get an ODB2 reader
and you can check the codes and reset them. Reader is less than a hundred.
Mine, I had to replace the connectors to injector 2 and 7. GM made the
lines a little short and the connector wears out. Bought mine off the
internet for about $50 and the module about 175.

I got an OBII dongle that blue tooths to my laptop.
It was about $10


I think my reader was $50. Bought it when coming back from Yellowstone,
and went in to limp mode at Donner
Pass summit. Chevy dealer could find nada wrong. So sent me on my way.
Got near Sacramento, and limp mode again. Bought the reader and used
McDonalds wifi to research the code. Internet scores. You can stick an
ice pick through the connector to make sharp edge connection along
roadside. Pretty much all my laptops died, so went iPad.

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:59:04 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:09:12 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 12/1/2015 10:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

American cars aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
When I bought my car going on 10 years ago the only initial problem was
with the smart wheel. Since then I had some problems with the seals in
the AC. I just kept recharging it until the seals magically healed
themselves. I put a couple of batteries in it and tomorrow I am treating
it to a new set of sneakers. They have 10 years on them and slightly
less than 50,000 miles.

Other than the glow plugs, my truck has given me no problems. I'm thinking I got
ripped off with the first glow plug problem. The place said it was a bad plug and a
bad glow plug module. Cost me about $750.

A couple months ago the check engine light came on, the reader said glow plug #4.
This time I decided to attempt the replacement myself. Pain in the butt 'cause the
wheel well cover has to be removed to get to the damn thing. Anyway, got the new one
in and cranked the engine. Damn light still came on. Then a friend told me it might
take a few cycles for the computer to get itself straight. Sure enough, after about
my third trip somewhere the CE light stayed off.

The point is, I now wonder if the repair place actually ran the truck through a few
cycles before deciding the problem was more than the glow plug and replacing the
module. I suppose they could have, but I have my doubts.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


I had to replace the module to pass smog. Do not really need the glow
plugs here due to not much freezing weather. The module had or has a
tendency to break the connections to the board inside. Get an ODB2 reader
and you can check the codes and reset them. Reader is less than a hundred.
Mine, I had to replace the connectors to injector 2 and 7. GM made the
lines a little short and the connector wears out. Bought mine off the
internet for about $50 and the module about 175.

I'm now the proud owner of a reader. From what I understand, the reader will say the
problem is a glow plug, but it might be the plug, the wire, or the module.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


The module error I had was can not communicate with module. But with a
meter helps narrow the problem.

On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 2:51:41 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:59:04 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2015 08:09:12 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 12/1/2015 10:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Dec 2015 20:42:53 -0500, wrote:

Consumer Reports is always hard on any kind of performance car.

They gave the Tesla a score over 100. Never did that before. The reliability results
come from the owners who take the annual survey.

I haven't really looked at CR for years but when I was looking at
these things it looked to me that it was more the expectation of the
buyer than the absolute reliability. When I was looking at 2 virtually
identical cars, (like the GM "X" cars) using the same parts, the more
expensive cars got lower ratings than the cheaper one. I just assumed
a Cadillac owner was more of a complainer than a Chevy buyer if the
window motor was a little sluggish or the clock kept bad time.

===

Chances are that the Cadillac owners might have not only had higher
expectations but might have also have had experience with other cars
where things actually worked. We recently junked my wife's ancient
Honda Accord because the transmission was giving out after 18 years of
faithful service. Everything else on the car was still working
perfectly however like the A/C, power seats, power windows, power
mirrors, power sun roof, etc. None of that had ever needed servicing
in the entire 140K+ miles that we owned the car.


Did you drive the Honda 90 MPH down US 75?

American cars aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.
When I bought my car going on 10 years ago the only initial problem was
with the smart wheel. Since then I had some problems with the seals in
the AC. I just kept recharging it until the seals magically healed
themselves. I put a couple of batteries in it and tomorrow I am treating
it to a new set of sneakers. They have 10 years on them and slightly
less than 50,000 miles.

Other than the glow plugs, my truck has given me no problems. I'm thinking I got
ripped off with the first glow plug problem. The place said it was a bad plug and a
bad glow plug module. Cost me about $750.

A couple months ago the check engine light came on, the reader said glow plug #4.
This time I decided to attempt the replacement myself. Pain in the butt 'cause the
wheel well cover has to be removed to get to the damn thing. Anyway, got the new one
in and cranked the engine. Damn light still came on. Then a friend told me it might
take a few cycles for the computer to get itself straight. Sure enough, after about
my third trip somewhere the CE light stayed off.

The point is, I now wonder if the repair place actually ran the truck through a few
cycles before deciding the problem was more than the glow plug and replacing the
module. I suppose they could have, but I have my doubts.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!


I had to replace the module to pass smog. Do not really need the glow
plugs here due to not much freezing weather. The module had or has a
tendency to break the connections to the board inside. Get an ODB2 reader
and you can check the codes and reset them. Reader is less than a hundred.
Mine, I had to replace the connectors to injector 2 and 7. GM made the
lines a little short and the connector wears out. Bought mine off the
internet for about $50 and the module about 175.

I'm now the proud owner of a reader. From what I understand, the reader will say the
problem is a glow plug, but it might be the plug, the wire, or the module..
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

The problem with the generic readers is that they can tell you what generic industry-wide engine codes are set, but that's all. Most (all?) modern cars have their own extended codes that these readers can't pick up. The Corvette I had lit up with error messages one day related to the ABS and stability systems. My reader saw nothing. The GM specific reader showed two "chassis" codes that pointed to the electronic brake control module (EBCM). Luckily it was under warranty.

I can get a Audi specific aftermarket "reader" that allows you to turn on specific features that aren't enabled on all A6's, and will also activate some things required for maintenance, like retracting the emergency brakes for brake service. Last time I checked, it was over $300 to get it setup, plus a laptop. No thanks.