On 10/29/14 7:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/29/14 4:54 PM, KC wrote:
On 10/29/2014 2:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:25 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/29/14 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:28:50 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/29/14 12:17 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 11:35:39 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/29/14 11:25 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:36:30 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/28/14 11:02 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:42:34 -0400, F*O*A*D
wrote:

On 10/28/14 5:52 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:08:54 -0400, F*O*A*D
wrote:

You send your kids out to collect plastic bottles by the
roadside to
turn in for deposit? I suppose that is easier on you than
finding and
keeping a decent job.

I think he is referring to your "hobby" of killing water
bottles and
performing mundane tasks on firearms, routinely performed by
third
world children.


Ahh, yes, I do enjoy shooting one and two liter sodapop
bottles, and I'm
going to start putting Mentos in some of them. Ginger ale,
I've found,
produces the biggest "explosions."

I doubt "third world children" are working on new in the box
Colt AR15s.

They might have some well-used ones that Dick Cheney's
corporation left
behind somewhere, though. I wonder if those kids have "Go"
and "No Go"
tools in their little kits when they need to replace the
barrels in
those Cheney Saturday Night Specials.

And since you are interested, I might upgrade the trigger in
my AR15.
It's a "milspec" trigger with a "milspec" 6-1/2 pound pull,
and is ok
but not great. I'd like a smoother trigger with maybe half
that amount
of pull.

For a moment there, I thought the Ingerfool family found a
good job
right out of the Grapes of Wrath.

It takes a lot more skill to keep those old M16s (and AKs)
running
than a new in the box AR.
The fact that you have access to lots of off the shelf parts
does not
enhance your argument.




I have no use or need for a select fire M16, though I don't see
where
regular maintenance on it would be any more difficult or even
significantly different than on my AR15. There's very little
difference
in stripping them down and keeping them running. Most of the
parts are
identical. The key is keeping the rifle clean and lubed.

I don't know anything about the care and maintenance of the AK
rifles.
They don't interest me.

Non responsive answer ... again.


Your posit was that it took more skill to keep an old M16
running. What
skills would it take beyond my ability to produce a working AR15
from a
stripped lower and upper? I have the skills I need to build and
maintain
my AR rifles. I know where all the pieces and parts go, including
the
various springs and detents. I have no desire or need to
manufacture a
billet lower or hammer a barrel.

As I stated, I don't know anything about AKs.

A 3d world child is keeping an old M16 running with limited access to
parts if any and it is usually a worn out Vietnam era M16A1 that we
gave away during one of our "save the world from communism"
misadventures.
That is far more difficult than simply dropping new parts in a new
lower. and acting like you are a master gunsmith.



Really. What parts are these Third World kids machining? Springs?
Detents? Levers? Are they carving parts out of hickory logs? Or are
they
simply scavenging parts out of one old rifle and tossing them into
another old rifle.

Exactly.

I made no claim of being a master gunsmith. I'm no more of a master
gunsmith than you are a master auto mechanic, public health expert, or
environmental engineer, or an expert in any of the other 100 areas in
which you've claimed mastery.

You only seem to hang your hat on that one skill, assembling erector
set guns..



I don't see rec.boats as a place where I would want to discuss or show
my expertise with Trompe-l'Å“il oil painting.


Oh brother.... learned a new word on the internets I see... lol.


No, you ignorant ass. Took art history classes (two) in college.



Or a drafting class.


Took mechanical drawing in junior high school. In those days, the public
schools had $$$ for interesting electives. Took "art" in two grades,
chorus in 9th grade. What did your junior high do for "culture,"
Bilious, hand out comic books?


--
“There’s more idleness and abuse of government favors among the
economically privileged than among the ranks of the disadvantaged.� -
Norman Mailer

On 10/29/2014 7:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/29/2014 2:21 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:44:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/28/2014 5:57 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 17:37:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/28/2014 2:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:23:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

$35 every three years doesn't sound onerous to me. We pay $100 for six
years up here. Free if 70 or over.


Per gun? Eeek!

You will love Florida



LOL ... no

The $100 is for the license or renewal every 6 years.
You can own as many guns as you want. The registration process allows
the state to monitor how many you buy and sell though and they might
investigate if they suspect you are an unlicensed dealer.

I didn't take John's $35 (for three years) as being a fee per gun.
It's just for the fingerprinting.


As I said, you missed the fee per gun part.



What was it, $13 bucks or something? I don't have a problem with that.

I expect not. You wouldn't have a problem with $1300/gun, but it would
sure be an infringement on the right of many, including me, to own a
firearm, wouldn't it? Would it require a change in the Constitution to
pass such a law in a city, county, or state?



Who said I wouldn't have a problem at $1,300 per gun? You did. Not me.

$13 bucks every three years to cover the cost of having reasonable gun
registration and controls doesn't seem crazy to me. $1,300 does.

We pay $50 (per vehicle) every two years to keep car registrations current.

We pay $100 every six years to keep our gun permits current and valid.

All we are talking about are *reasonable* controls to address gun safety
and ownership concerns in the 21st Century. Citing the 2nd Amendment and
refusing to consider any laws or rules that make the rest of the
population feel more comfortable doesn't make sense.

What's the going rate for 18 holes of golf? $25-$30 bucks? What's the
going rate for a full hookup at a campsite?

Seems you are willing to pay for what you enjoy.


Cars are not a constitutionally protected item. $$ every couple years to
keep your guns? More like a poll tax to vote.

True, but I see the whole thing differently. There is much concern and
controversy surrounding firearm ownership now-a-days, some with good reason.

Some anti-gun people and groups advocate the ban on them altogether and
continue to challenge the "meaning" of the 2nd Amendment. We don't live
in the 17 or 18 hundreds. Trying to defend gun rights on the nuance and
interpretation of the 2A wording may backfire someday with a more
liberal Supreme Court. If that happens ... gun owners are screwed.

Rather than dig in our heels and reject every attempt to put reasonable
controls on gun ownership, why not try to understand the reasoning of
others and be willing to compromise without giving away your rights?
If you notice, the lack of compromise and willingness to respect other
views/concerns on issues is at the core of a totally dysfunctional
government. It's not how rational, mature people resolve an issue.

On 10/29/14 7:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:25:44 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I knew Jimmy
Hoffa -distantly- in Detroit when the Teamsters were aligned with my UAW
client, I knew Roy Williams pretty well from my reporter days and his
union days in Kansas City, and I did some work for the Teamsters when
Jackie Presser ran the show. Jackie had a habit of calling me early
Sunday mornings...it was a bit of a startle the first few times.

===

With friends like that you really don't need any enemies.

I had a neighbor at one time who was a self proclaimed union hotshot
with "connections". He disappeared one day - couldn't have happened
to a nicer guy.



Oh, I've worked with much tougher guys than those gents. My junior high
school girlfriend's father was a caporegime in the family headed by
Frank Costello, and her family took me one Christmas holiday to
Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, where we spent a week "comped" at a hotel owned
(controlled?) by Costello. Great girl, great family.

--
“There’s more idleness and abuse of government favors among the
economically privileged than among the ranks of the disadvantaged.” -
Norman Mailer

On 10/29/2014 7:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:25:44 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I knew Jimmy
Hoffa -distantly- in Detroit when the Teamsters were aligned with my UAW
client, I knew Roy Williams pretty well from my reporter days and his
union days in Kansas City, and I did some work for the Teamsters when
Jackie Presser ran the show. Jackie had a habit of calling me early
Sunday mornings...it was a bit of a startle the first few times.

===

With friends like that you really don't need any enemies.

I had a neighbor at one time who was a self proclaimed union hotshot
with "connections". He disappeared one day - couldn't have happened
to a nicer guy.


Harry misses the good ol days when his dining experiences were regularly
interrupted bu bullets buzzing by his ears.

On 10/29/2014 7:45 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:25:44 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I knew Jimmy
Hoffa -distantly- in Detroit when the Teamsters were aligned with my UAW
client, I knew Roy Williams pretty well from my reporter days and his
union days in Kansas City, and I did some work for the Teamsters when
Jackie Presser ran the show. Jackie had a habit of calling me early
Sunday mornings...it was a bit of a startle the first few times.

===

With friends like that you really don't need any enemies.

I had a neighbor at one time who was a self proclaimed union hotshot
with "connections". He disappeared one day - couldn't have happened
to a nicer guy.


We had two dirty business agents who screwed the Union. One slapped the
girl he was dating around, her father was a big "Italian" guy from
Windsor Locks, and a week or so later the girl got her fiance to go down
parking by the river where he apparently held his hand outside of the
car, shot himself in the forehead and the bullet ended up in the
passenger seat, the pistol in his lap.. Suicide it was ruled.. The
next guy came home one night and found his home burned, family dead....
not fun guys...

On 10/29/2014 8:13 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:32:26 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

What's the going rate for 18 holes of golf? $25-$30 bucks?

Closer to a "benny" here in season if you want to play a nice course..



I am sure John must get decent fees at the military courses he plays.

On 10/29/2014 7:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:25 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/29/14 1:01 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 12:28:50 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/29/14 12:17 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 11:35:39 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/29/14 11:25 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 06:36:30 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/28/14 11:02 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:42:34 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/28/14 5:52 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:08:54 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

You send your kids out to collect plastic bottles by the roadside to
turn in for deposit? I suppose that is easier on you than finding and
keeping a decent job.

I think he is referring to your "hobby" of killing water bottles and
performing mundane tasks on firearms, routinely performed by third
world children.


Ahh, yes, I do enjoy shooting one and two liter sodapop bottles, and I'm
going to start putting Mentos in some of them. Ginger ale, I've found,
produces the biggest "explosions."

I doubt "third world children" are working on new in the box Colt AR15s.

They might have some well-used ones that Dick Cheney's corporation left
behind somewhere, though. I wonder if those kids have "Go" and "No Go"
tools in their little kits when they need to replace the barrels in
those Cheney Saturday Night Specials.

And since you are interested, I might upgrade the trigger in my AR15.
It's a "milspec" trigger with a "milspec" 6-1/2 pound pull, and is ok
but not great. I'd like a smoother trigger with maybe half that amount
of pull.

For a moment there, I thought the Ingerfool family found a good job
right out of the Grapes of Wrath.

It takes a lot more skill to keep those old M16s (and AKs) running
than a new in the box AR.
The fact that you have access to lots of off the shelf parts does not
enhance your argument.




I have no use or need for a select fire M16, though I don't see where
regular maintenance on it would be any more difficult or even
significantly different than on my AR15. There's very little difference
in stripping them down and keeping them running. Most of the parts are
identical. The key is keeping the rifle clean and lubed.

I don't know anything about the care and maintenance of the AK rifles.
They don't interest me.

Non responsive answer ... again.


Your posit was that it took more skill to keep an old M16 running. What
skills would it take beyond my ability to produce a working AR15 from a
stripped lower and upper? I have the skills I need to build and maintain
my AR rifles. I know where all the pieces and parts go, including the
various springs and detents. I have no desire or need to manufacture a
billet lower or hammer a barrel.

As I stated, I don't know anything about AKs.

A 3d world child is keeping an old M16 running with limited access to
parts if any and it is usually a worn out Vietnam era M16A1 that we
gave away during one of our "save the world from communism"
misadventures.
That is far more difficult than simply dropping new parts in a new
lower. and acting like you are a master gunsmith.



Really. What parts are these Third World kids machining? Springs?
Detents? Levers? Are they carving parts out of hickory logs? Or are they
simply scavenging parts out of one old rifle and tossing them into
another old rifle.

Exactly.

I made no claim of being a master gunsmith. I'm no more of a master
gunsmith than you are a master auto mechanic, public health expert, or
environmental engineer, or an expert in any of the other 100 areas in
which you've claimed mastery.

You only seem to hang your hat on that one skill, assembling erector
set guns..



I don't see rec.boats as a place where I would want to discuss or show
my expertise with Trompe-l'Å“il oil painting.

Paint by number?

He can not. Math challenged. Basic math.


He's just saying that to make us think he actually went to college..

On 10/29/2014 7:58 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2014 7:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/29/2014 2:21 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:44:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/28/2014 5:57 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 17:37:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 10/28/2014 2:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:23:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

$35 every three years doesn't sound onerous to me. We pay $100
for six
years up here. Free if 70 or over.


Per gun? Eeek!

You will love Florida



LOL ... no

The $100 is for the license or renewal every 6 years.
You can own as many guns as you want. The registration process
allows
the state to monitor how many you buy and sell though and they might
investigate if they suspect you are an unlicensed dealer.

I didn't take John's $35 (for three years) as being a fee per gun.
It's just for the fingerprinting.


As I said, you missed the fee per gun part.



What was it, $13 bucks or something? I don't have a problem with
that.

I expect not. You wouldn't have a problem with $1300/gun, but it would
sure be an infringement on the right of many, including me, to own a
firearm, wouldn't it? Would it require a change in the Constitution to
pass such a law in a city, county, or state?



Who said I wouldn't have a problem at $1,300 per gun? You did. Not
me.

$13 bucks every three years to cover the cost of having reasonable gun
registration and controls doesn't seem crazy to me. $1,300 does.

We pay $50 (per vehicle) every two years to keep car registrations
current.

We pay $100 every six years to keep our gun permits current and valid.

All we are talking about are *reasonable* controls to address gun
safety
and ownership concerns in the 21st Century. Citing the 2nd Amendment
and
refusing to consider any laws or rules that make the rest of the
population feel more comfortable doesn't make sense.

What's the going rate for 18 holes of golf? $25-$30 bucks? What's the
going rate for a full hookup at a campsite?

Seems you are willing to pay for what you enjoy.


Cars are not a constitutionally protected item. $$ every couple years to
keep your guns? More like a poll tax to vote.

True, but I see the whole thing differently. There is much concern and
controversy surrounding firearm ownership now-a-days, some with good
reason.

Some anti-gun people and groups advocate the ban on them altogether and
continue to challenge the "meaning" of the 2nd Amendment. We don't live
in the 17 or 18 hundreds. Trying to defend gun rights on the nuance and
interpretation of the 2A wording may backfire someday with a more
liberal Supreme Court. If that happens ... gun owners are screwed.

Rather than dig in our heels and reject every attempt to put reasonable
controls on gun ownership, why not try to understand the reasoning of
others and be willing to compromise without giving away your rights? If
you notice, the lack of compromise and willingness to respect other
views/concerns on issues is at the core of a totally dysfunctional
government. It's not how rational, mature people resolve an issue.




Because for liberals, "compromise" is just a stepping stone to an end...

On 10/29/2014 8:28 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:54:46 -0400, KC wrote:

On 10/29/2014 2:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:25 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


I don't see rec.boats as a place where I would want to discuss or show
my expertise with Trompe-l'Å“il oil painting.


Oh brother.... learned a new word on the internets I see... lol.

Paint by number?


It is just a pretentious way of saying you have a degree of
perspective in your picture. It is usually taught in the introduction
to art class.
In it's most simple sense, you create a vanishing point somewhere near
the center of the picture with lines to the edges of the frame and use
that to scale object sizes as you move forward toward the viewer.
Once you get the concept, you know objects far away are smaller than
objects up close and you adjust shapes to reflect it still using those
imaginary lines.
The more off center your vanishing point is, the more oblique the view
is that you are representing.

My father was an artist in his spare time, mostly working in charcoal.
I learned these concepts in grade school. I just never really found
the love for the process.


My mom was an artist and painted with Oil for years... harry doesn't
paint, all he does is lie on the internet... lol!

On 10/29/2014 8:25 PM, KC wrote:
On 10/29/2014 7:58 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/29/2014 7:40 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/29/2014 2:21 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:44:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/28/2014 5:57 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 17:37:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 10/28/2014 2:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 13:23:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

$35 every three years doesn't sound onerous to me. We pay $100
for six
years up here. Free if 70 or over.


Per gun? Eeek!

You will love Florida



LOL ... no

The $100 is for the license or renewal every 6 years.
You can own as many guns as you want. The registration process
allows
the state to monitor how many you buy and sell though and they
might
investigate if they suspect you are an unlicensed dealer.

I didn't take John's $35 (for three years) as being a fee per gun.
It's just for the fingerprinting.


As I said, you missed the fee per gun part.



What was it, $13 bucks or something? I don't have a problem with
that.

I expect not. You wouldn't have a problem with $1300/gun, but it would
sure be an infringement on the right of many, including me, to own a
firearm, wouldn't it? Would it require a change in the Constitution to
pass such a law in a city, county, or state?



Who said I wouldn't have a problem at $1,300 per gun? You did. Not
me.

$13 bucks every three years to cover the cost of having reasonable gun
registration and controls doesn't seem crazy to me. $1,300 does.

We pay $50 (per vehicle) every two years to keep car registrations
current.

We pay $100 every six years to keep our gun permits current and valid.

All we are talking about are *reasonable* controls to address gun
safety
and ownership concerns in the 21st Century. Citing the 2nd Amendment
and
refusing to consider any laws or rules that make the rest of the
population feel more comfortable doesn't make sense.

What's the going rate for 18 holes of golf? $25-$30 bucks? What's
the
going rate for a full hookup at a campsite?

Seems you are willing to pay for what you enjoy.


Cars are not a constitutionally protected item. $$ every couple
years to
keep your guns? More like a poll tax to vote.

True, but I see the whole thing differently. There is much concern and
controversy surrounding firearm ownership now-a-days, some with good
reason.

Some anti-gun people and groups advocate the ban on them altogether and
continue to challenge the "meaning" of the 2nd Amendment. We don't live
in the 17 or 18 hundreds. Trying to defend gun rights on the nuance and
interpretation of the 2A wording may backfire someday with a more
liberal Supreme Court. If that happens ... gun owners are screwed.

Rather than dig in our heels and reject every attempt to put reasonable
controls on gun ownership, why not try to understand the reasoning of
others and be willing to compromise without giving away your rights? If
you notice, the lack of compromise and willingness to respect other
views/concerns on issues is at the core of a totally dysfunctional
government. It's not how rational, mature people resolve an issue.




Because for liberals, "compromise" is just a stepping stone to an end...


I didn't expect anything otherwise from you, but that's ok. Some people
will never have any empathy for others. It's all about them and what
*they* think.