On 4/18/14, 11:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:36:59 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:50:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


The union operatives implant it into them. I sat in on a union meeting years ago (IBEW) where a union suit came in to give a talk. He literally told the workers that management was out to get them any way they can, so they'd better build a file on management "misconduct" so they could use that info to try save their jobs when management "came after them". Turning the workers against the company that feeds them. That's some way to build a successful company, eh? Any wonder nearly all unionized companies are poor performers, and fail?

Fear mongering. Intimidation. Lies. Deceit. The tools of unions.

Unions had a function 100 years ago but they are anachronisms today.
Most of the "protections" they pioneered are now federal law

That's just absolute, complete bull****.

You never heard of OSHA, NLRB, the various labor laws and last but not
least a very litigious society with lawyers trolling for clients every
day. Carnegie is not sending the Pinkertons in to shoot strikers, you
don't have kids working in unsafe conditions and putting in 72 hours a
week for base pay.



I think I know a bit more about the real world of labor law and what is
enforced and what isn't, generally, than you do. Most of the teeth in
many labor laws have been excised, and the NLRB is only a shadow of what
it used to be.

On 4/18/2014 6:50 PM, wrote:
On Friday, April 18, 2014 5:31:01 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/18/2014 4:34 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 3:59 PM, wrote:

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:22:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:





Funny stuff. Railroads pay living wages to their employees, and that

really, truly ****es off right-wing assholes.



Actually what ****es us off is paying premium wages to "fire proof"

employees who fall asleep in the cab and crash their trains, derail

with hazardous cargo and put us all in danger..





I'd bet far more rail accidents and fatalities are the result of

corporate decisions, such as deferred maintenance, shorting of crews,

working of crews too many hours.



You righties are funny guys, in that you will readily dismiss all manner

of corporate misbehavior, but if you can pin a rap on a working stiff,

you're all for it.





Small sampling and just my observation from working with and knowing

many fellow "working stiffs", it seems to me that the ones who

complain most about their working conditions, pay and overall job

satisfaction have been those who belonged to unions. Maybe it's because

there is always that "management versus worker" mentality going on.

Always something to bitch about.



My son's father-in-law was union all his working career. He's a great

guy but we groan when the subject of work comes with him because it

ignites a half hour round of complaining and bitching about his former

employer. He's been retired for over 2 years and still can't get it out

of his system.

The union operatives implant it into them. I sat in on a union meeting years ago (IBEW) where a union suit came in to give a talk. He literally told the workers that management was out to get them any way they can, so they'd better build a file on management "misconduct" so they could use that info to try save their jobs when management "came after them". Turning the workers against the company that feeds them. That's some way to build a successful company, eh? Any wonder nearly all unionized companies are poor performers, and fail?

Fear mongering. Intimidation. Lies. Deceit. The tools of unions.


Absolutely, I saw it all from my seat in the Teamsters with my dad...

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:08:34 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Your anecdotes do not disprove my posit.

This is a fact, compared to your conjecture.


What, an incident?

===

A series of similar incidents.

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:57:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Assume my observations are valid and more widespread. Why are those
least satisfied with their jobs "protected" by unions?

What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where
*you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the
job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero.

===

And I'm sure you're right. I wonder if Harry has ever looked at the
working conditions in the Chinese plants where his beloved Apple
products are produced.

On 4/18/2014 8:17 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/18/14, 5:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 16:34:43 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

I'd bet far more rail accidents and fatalities are the result of
corporate decisions, such as deferred maintenance, shorting of crews,
working of crews too many hours.

That was the excuse they tried with the train that drove up the
escalator last week. Then someone actually looked at the engineer's
schedule and she had worked ZERO overtime.


Your anecdotes do not disprove my posit.

Your points are blunted by your lies.

On 4/18/2014 8:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/18/2014 8:18 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/18/14, 5:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/18/2014 4:34 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/18/14, 3:59 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:22:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


Funny stuff. Railroads pay living wages to their employees, and that
really, truly ****es off right-wing assholes.

Actually what ****es us off is paying premium wages to "fire proof"
employees who fall asleep in the cab and crash their trains, derail
with hazardous cargo and put us all in danger..


I'd bet far more rail accidents and fatalities are the result of
corporate decisions, such as deferred maintenance, shorting of crews,
working of crews too many hours.

You righties are funny guys, in that you will readily dismiss all
manner
of corporate misbehavior, but if you can pin a rap on a working stiff,
you're all for it.


Small sampling and just my observation from working with and knowing
many fellow "working stiffs", it seems to me that the ones who
complain most about their working conditions, pay and overall job
satisfaction have been those who belonged to unions. Maybe it's because
there is always that "management versus worker" mentality going on.
Always something to bitch about.

My son's father-in-law was union all his working career. He's a great
guy but we groan when the subject of work comes with him because it
ignites a half hour round of complaining and bitching about his former
employer. He's been retired for over 2 years and still can't get it out
of his system.








Right, because we all know that the boss is king and that the
worker-serfs are lucky to have a job and should just take whatever it
dished out, and take it with a big smile.


Assume my observations are valid and more widespread. Why are those
least satisfied with their jobs "protected" by unions?

What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where
*you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the
job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero.



As a young serf he did clean out boilers to pay his tuition. Aparently
his rich daddy wasn't willing to help him out with college expenses.

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 23:18:23 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:15:52 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 8:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where
*you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the
job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero.



Your suspicions would add up to...zero.


Every story you have told here was about your jobs where you made
unbelievable money doing exactly what you loved.
You boss always fell at your feet in awe.

As they say on Law and Order, "were you lying then or are you lying
now"?

~~snerk~~

On 4/19/14, 1:07 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 23:08:37 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 11:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:36:59 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:50:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


The union operatives implant it into them. I sat in on a union meeting years ago (IBEW) where a union suit came in to give a talk. He literally told the workers that management was out to get them any way they can, so they'd better build a file on management "misconduct" so they could use that info to try save their jobs when management "came after them". Turning the workers against the company that feeds them. That's some way to build a successful company, eh? Any wonder nearly all unionized companies are poor performers, and fail?

Fear mongering. Intimidation. Lies. Deceit. The tools of unions.

Unions had a function 100 years ago but they are anachronisms today.
Most of the "protections" they pioneered are now federal law

That's just absolute, complete bull****.

You never heard of OSHA, NLRB, the various labor laws and last but not
least a very litigious society with lawyers trolling for clients every
day. Carnegie is not sending the Pinkertons in to shoot strikers, you
don't have kids working in unsafe conditions and putting in 72 hours a
week for base pay.



I think I know a bit more about the real world of labor law and what is
enforced and what isn't, generally, than you do. Most of the teeth in
many labor laws have been excised, and the NLRB is only a shadow of what
it used to be.

Are you seriously going to say that there is anything like the kind of
labor problems now as they had at the turn of the last century?


There are still many serious labor/management problems, and during the
Reagan mis-administration, they started getting worse again.

On 4/18/14, 11:18 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:15:52 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 8:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


What working experience do you have ... meaning employment ... where
*you* were were subject to the king boss and had to take whatever the
job dished out? Ever? I suspect zero.



Your suspicions would add up to...zero.


Every story you have told here was about your jobs where you made
unbelievable money doing exactly what you loved.
You boss always fell at your feet in awe.

As they say on Law and Order, "were you lying then or are you lying
now"?


Yeah, my first full-time newspaper job paid me $100 a week. Yipperdoo.
The Associated Press "recruited" me out of that job by doubling that
salary, and my first ad/pr agency job in Detroit tripled the AP salary.
All chump change jobs, but I did get along with my various bosses. I was
recruited out of the Detroit job by the National Education Association.

In 1971, I think it was, I was hired by a big DC ad/pr agency for a
grand a week, decent pay for a young man in those days. Stayed there for
three years, then was hired by another DC ad/pr agency for another pay
spike, but I don't remember what it was. The second agency was a lot of
fun...it was much more of a "retail" agency with lots of local TV and
radio advertising.

In 1977, I think, the NEA asked me if I wanted to be a contract
consultant to manage some of its national advertising business so I left
the agency. Shortly thereafter, I picked up two other international
unions as clients, and then I got a contract to produce TV ads for the
AFL-CIO building trades department and a national veterans organization.

I did ok on the payrolls of others, once my career got going, but much
better financially running my own little ad/pr shop.

On 4/19/2014 7:13 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/19/14, 1:07 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 23:08:37 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 11:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:36:59 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/18/14, 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:50:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


The union operatives implant it into them. I sat in on a union
meeting years ago (IBEW) where a union suit came in to give a
talk. He literally told the workers that management was out to
get them any way they can, so they'd better build a file on
management "misconduct" so they could use that info to try save
their jobs when management "came after them". Turning the
workers against the company that feeds them. That's some way to
build a successful company, eh? Any wonder nearly all unionized
companies are poor performers, and fail?

Fear mongering. Intimidation. Lies. Deceit. The tools of unions.

Unions had a function 100 years ago but they are anachronisms today.
Most of the "protections" they pioneered are now federal law

That's just absolute, complete bull****.

You never heard of OSHA, NLRB, the various labor laws and last but not
least a very litigious society with lawyers trolling for clients every
day. Carnegie is not sending the Pinkertons in to shoot strikers, you
don't have kids working in unsafe conditions and putting in 72 hours a
week for base pay.



I think I know a bit more about the real world of labor law and what is
enforced and what isn't, generally, than you do. Most of the teeth in
many labor laws have been excised, and the NLRB is only a shadow of what
it used to be.

Are you seriously going to say that there is anything like the kind of
labor problems now as they had at the turn of the last century?


There are still many serious labor/management problems, and during the
Reagan mis-administration, they started getting worse again.


Is that why general union membership has gone from about 20 percent of
all employed in 1983 to 11.5 percent now?

Unions seem to be losing their flavor for many.