On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail



Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units.

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.

On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail




Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units.

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.








Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk

On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail





Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units.

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.








Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk


No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your
experience wiring homes, barns and whatever?

Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket
science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and
particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat*
is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home
Depot.

I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a
new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to
the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the
job.

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.

On 3/18/14, 8:01 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now
like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina
office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X
and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With
only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail






Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget
but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south
pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my
own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC
units.

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.








Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk


No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your
experience wiring homes, barns and whatever?

Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket
science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and
particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat*
is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home
Depot.

I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a
new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to
the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the
job.

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon!

On 3/18/2014 8:05 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 8:01 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC
wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now
like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina
office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X
and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With
only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so
how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like
that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail







Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever
you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget
but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south
pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a
lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from
moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology.
Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my
own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg
of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we
had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC
units.

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one
thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both
sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.








Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk


No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your
experience wiring homes, barns and whatever?

Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket
science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and
particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat*
is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home
Depot.

I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a
new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to
the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the
job.

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon!


and heavy duty algebra at that.

On 3/18/14, 8:18 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:05 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 8:01 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC
wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now
like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina
office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X
and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With
only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so
how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like
that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail








Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever
you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget
but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion
resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south
pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not
wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a
lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from
moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should
see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology.
Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my
own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg
of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so,
he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't
going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed
wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we
had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything
over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC
units.

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one
thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both
sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.








Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk


No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your
experience wiring homes, barns and whatever?

Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket
science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and
particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat*
is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home
Depot.

I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a
new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to
the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the
job.

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon!


and heavy duty algebra at that.




I hated first year algebra at Hillhouse, but I liked second year algebra
and geometry and calc. Geometry was always my favorite math/science
class there, but for physics. Didn't like chemistry much, either. I
think the qualities of the various teachers had a lot to do with it.

On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon!


and heavy duty algebra at that.


You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase
and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors)

The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from)



I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe
you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of
"Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt.

On 3/18/2014 2:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net
current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current
through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.


Algebra! Holy smoked salmon!


and heavy duty algebra at that.


You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase
and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors)

The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from)



I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe
you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of
"Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt.


In three phase power circuits the total wattage is the average voltage
of each leg x the average current of each leg x a power factor x the
sq.rt of 3 (1.73)

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:01:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail





Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units.

After talking to a guy at West Marine that's the type of thing I'll do too if I
follow through with it. I might add a couple of extra outlets too, in case I
want to run an extra heater in the winter without tripping the main as I do from
time to time.

I will want to have 240V available though. I did stage lighting for years and
have been given some old moving lights that need repair and the place I work
doesn't want to put the money into them. They are old Martin Mac 500s and 600s
and they only work on 240V (+/-) power. So what I mainly want the 240 for is so
I can work on them and try to get some of them going again. My question is: If
the marina hooks up another 30 amp sevice, will it be out of phase with the
original one or could it be in phase? It wouldn't do me any good if it's in
phase, so would I need to specify or would it be out of phase and I don't need
to bother them about that detail, do you know?

I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things
however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing
I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed
because they received bad input.

Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp
service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker.
There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of
them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200
amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized
for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of
the total service?

See if the answer is in your "electrical" book.

Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk


No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your
experience wiring homes, barns and whatever?

Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket
science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and
particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat*
is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home
Depot.

I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a
new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to
the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the
job.

BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs
are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current
flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through
the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes.

Thanks for sharing that. I still have the question of whether the the two 30 amp
120s would necessarily be out of phase though, even though what you wrote leads
me to believe they probably would be.

On 3/22/2014 1:33 PM, david@righthere... wrote:

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:01:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote:

On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like
to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office.
I haven't
put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than
250. The socket
on the pedestal is like the one pictured he

http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm

They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot
legs and W is
the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and
Y is the
220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3
poles do we
run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do
we tie in?

Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that?
So far the
best price I've found is $68.18 he

http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail





Thank you for any help!
David


The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you
have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I
have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20
bucks at
home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house...

Not true at all, sorry.

This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant.

A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty
quickly on a pier.



Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring
boats.



Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of
wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving
in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you
have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me
sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either
way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own
work as I go....


Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp,
240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it
to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's
taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The
primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the
power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing
power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to
do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing
any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in
the boat, causing a fire.

My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine
service plug is not a dryer plug.

I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had.
It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two
air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over
to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v
marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated
breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units.

After talking to a guy at West Marine that's the type of thing I'll do too if I
follow through with it. I might add a couple of extra outlets too, in case I
want to run an extra heater in the winter without tripping the main as I do from
time to time.

I will want to have 240V available though. I did stage lighting for years and
have been given some old moving lights that need repair and the place I work
doesn't want to put the money into them. They are old Martin Mac 500s and 600s
and they only work on 240V (+/-) power. So what I mainly want the 240 for is so
I can work on them and try to get some of them going again. My question is: If
the marina hooks up another 30 amp sevice, will it be out of phase with the
original one or could it be in phase? It wouldn't do me any good if it's in
phase, so would I need to specify or would it be out of phase and I don't need
to bother them about that detail, do you know?


It really depends on how your marina's service is set up. Most that I
am familiar with are a distributed 208 vac Wye, 3 phase service. They
usually try to balance the service loads at each power pedestal, so it
is likely that at least two 120 vac, 30 amp outlets are on different
legs of the 3 phase service at each pedestal. If so, you will have
either 208 volts between them and 120 vac between any leg and neutral.
However, there is also a 3 phase distributed service called "240 vac
Delta" and a variation of it called "High Leg" 240 vac Delta.
High leg can produce 120 vac, 240 vac and 208 vac.

If you are not familiar with these 3 phase services and don't know what
your marina has, I highly recommend having a licensed electrician
familiar with marine service wiring help you.