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On 2/25/2014 2:53 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:55:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/25/2014 1:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:


What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief
that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :)


Naw, we are just debating how a pool gets chlorinated using a salt system.

I am no pool expert but curiosity has prompted me to try to understand
the process. That said, and having had three conventional pools (two in
Florida and one up here) and one salt based system at our current pool
the advantages of the salt system are crystal clear to me (pun intended).

1. Far less maintenance. Pretty much automatic.
2. Cheaper to operate. Salt is cheap. Pool chemicals aren't.
3. Clearer water.
4. Softer water.
5. No need to inventory or store dangerous chemicals.

Only disadvantage is a higher initial cost.

I should mention however that all salt systems are not the same.
Some are manual systems and need more checking, adjustments and
intervention. We opted for the fully automatic, microprocessor based
system that senses and adjusts as requirements and demand dictate.

At the beginning of the summer season the cell is operating
approximately 55-60 percent of the time that the pool pump is on.
By the middle of the season it has dropped to about 45 percent of the
time and towards fall it is operating about 30-35 percent of the pump on
time.

A friend in North Carolina has a new pool - a year or two old. During a recent visit he said it was
a 'salt water pool' although the salt was very mild. He bragged about how easy the maintenance was
compared to other pools he'd had. He loved it.

If I were ever to have a pool, which I'm not, I'd definitely be looking into that salt system.



Like I said, I am no pool expert but I played one on TV once.

When we ordered our pool installation the contractor originally wanted
to put the pump, filter and heat pump in a location near the pool that
would be noisy, very visible and would detract from the whole cabana and
landscaping work. I argued to install them behind the cabana, out of
sight and where they wouldn't be heard. The pool contractor balked,
stating that the pump manufacturer (Hayward) did not recommend placing
the equipment that far away from the pool and would not warranty their
performance. The whole project came to a halt.

I researched the pumps available from Hayward and taught myself to do
all the conductance calculations to determine water piping diameters,
manifolding and valving. I then found a Hayward "SuperPump" in their
catalog that met all the performance criteria for the conductance
calculations. I submitted all the data to the pool contractor who
forwarded them to Hayward. Hayward responded within a week giving a
thumbs up to the design and our preferred location of the equipment and
stated that a full warranty would apply.

Contractors sometimes try to take the easy route.

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On 2/25/2014 2:53 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:55:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/25/2014 1:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:


What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief
that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :)


Naw, we are just debating how a pool gets chlorinated using a salt system.

I am no pool expert but curiosity has prompted me to try to understand
the process. That said, and having had three conventional pools (two in
Florida and one up here) and one salt based system at our current pool
the advantages of the salt system are crystal clear to me (pun intended).

1. Far less maintenance. Pretty much automatic.
2. Cheaper to operate. Salt is cheap. Pool chemicals aren't.
3. Clearer water.
4. Softer water.
5. No need to inventory or store dangerous chemicals.

Only disadvantage is a higher initial cost.

I should mention however that all salt systems are not the same.
Some are manual systems and need more checking, adjustments and
intervention. We opted for the fully automatic, microprocessor based
system that senses and adjusts as requirements and demand dictate.

At the beginning of the summer season the cell is operating
approximately 55-60 percent of the time that the pool pump is on.
By the middle of the season it has dropped to about 45 percent of the
time and towards fall it is operating about 30-35 percent of the pump on
time.

A friend in North Carolina has a new pool - a year or two old. During a recent visit he said it was
a 'salt water pool' although the salt was very mild. He bragged about how easy the maintenance was
compared to other pools he'd had. He loved it.

If I were ever to have a pool, which I'm not, I'd definitely be looking into that salt system.


Can't see any reason not to really, especially if you entertain. The
technology is so cheap now, the pools too.. Our pool is 18 feet round
and 52 inches deep. We dug it a bit deeper in the middle. The pool,
complete came from Walmart for about $300 with filters and pumps,
ladder, cover, ground cloth and sets up in about an hour. The salt
system was another hundred bucks and the salt for the season was about
40 dollars... Like I said, I set ours up in an afternoon, filled it
overnight, poured in the salt, set the computer operated salt system,
and vacuumed it here and there over the summer... The water stayed
crystal clear, right through September and I didn't have to touch it
once. Now for the next ten years I figure it will cost me 40 bucks a
year for salt......

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On 2/25/2014 3:02 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/25/2014 1:55 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 1:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:


What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief
that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies
fun. :)


Naw, we are just debating how a pool gets chlorinated using a salt
system.

I am no pool expert but curiosity has prompted me to try to understand
the process. That said, and having had three conventional pools (two in
Florida and one up here) and one salt based system at our current pool
the advantages of the salt system are crystal clear to me (pun intended).

1. Far less maintenance. Pretty much automatic.
2. Cheaper to operate. Salt is cheap. Pool chemicals aren't.
3. Clearer water.
4. Softer water.
5. No need to inventory or store dangerous chemicals.

Only disadvantage is a higher initial cost.

I should mention however that all salt systems are not the same.
Some are manual systems and need more checking, adjustments and
intervention. We opted for the fully automatic, microprocessor based
system that senses and adjusts as requirements and demand dictate.

At the beginning of the summer season the cell is operating
approximately 55-60 percent of the time that the pool pump is on.
By the middle of the season it has dropped to about 45 percent of the
time and towards fall it is operating about 30-35 percent of the pump on
time.





Like I said.. there have been dozens of pools tried in my neighborhood
for 40 years... 99% fail because of the area and conditions. I am the
only one with a pool on our street, and coincidentally the only one of
three that has survived more than a year / I am the only one using a
salt system....

We did have one problem with the controller at the beginning of last
year. The cell for generating chlorine wouldn't work. This is the
reason I removed the cell, inspected and cleaned it for the first time
in 7 years. Turns out the cell was fine and I re-installed it.

The problem was a bad solder joint connection on the controller's mother
board. There is a relay that applies the voltage and current to the
cell and, from doing some research on the 'net, I found that there was
a known issue with the solder pad for the relay contact deteriorating
over time.

It took about 5 minutes to pull the mother board out, find the bad spot,
clean it and re-solder it. Put it back together and it worked fine
again. Meanwhile, the controller manufacturer had quoted $999.00 for a
new motherboard which, according to them, was the only fix.

That's the only problem we've had with the system since it was installed
8 years ago.

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On 2/25/2014 5:28 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:55:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/25/2014 1:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:


What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief
that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :)


Naw, we are just debating how a pool gets chlorinated using a salt system.

I am no pool expert but curiosity has prompted me to try to understand
the process. That said, and having had three conventional pools (two in
Florida and one up here) and one salt based system at our current pool
the advantages of the salt system are crystal clear to me (pun intended).

1. Far less maintenance. Pretty much automatic.
2. Cheaper to operate. Salt is cheap. Pool chemicals aren't.
3. Clearer water.
4. Softer water.
5. No need to inventory or store dangerous chemicals.

Only disadvantage is a higher initial cost.

I should mention however that all salt systems are not the same.
Some are manual systems and need more checking, adjustments and
intervention. We opted for the fully automatic, microprocessor based
system that senses and adjusts as requirements and demand dictate.

At the beginning of the summer season the cell is operating
approximately 55-60 percent of the time that the pool pump is on.
By the middle of the season it has dropped to about 45 percent of the
time and towards fall it is operating about 30-35 percent of the pump on
time.




How often do you need to clean or replace the generator element? That
seems to be a consumable here where we have hard water.
I know the water in the North East is a whole lot better.

I guess I might look at it if I ever decide to change what I am doing
now . It just sounds like I would be spending about 10 years worth of
chlorine to install it and salt isn't free. I would still have to
screw with the pH and that takes more time than the chlorine.

It is still only a few minutes a week. (testing pH, total alkalinity
and doing the calculation on what I need to add to fix it)




I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am just sharing personal
experience from having both systems, 3 conventional pools and 1 salt
system pool. I ended up filling in the first in-ground pool we had
years ago because the liner ripped, nobody used the pool much and I
didn't feel like (or couldn't afford) having a new liner installed. A
contractor offered to fill it in with clean fill and I put loam on top
of that and planted grass.

I used to spend some period of time every week testing, adding
chemicals, filling the chlorine basket thing and adjusting the handle to
allow more or less water to flow over it to adjust the chlorine level.
Sometimes it would go out of wack for whatever reasons and I'd be
over-shooting one way or the other to bring it back.

The salt system fixed all that. I don't test the water myself at all.
Once a month or month and a half I take a small sample from the pool to
the pool joint down the street and they check it. It's very rare when I
need to change or add anything.

For some reason, the pH doesn't change much over the course of the
summer like it did in the conventional pools. I think only once in the
past 7 years operating the pool did the test call for a minor adjustment
of plus or minus and I think it was after a month of heavy rain. The
only other thing we add is a small jug of stabilizer once the pool is up
and running and the salt and chlorine levels are all set.

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On 2/25/2014 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:12:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Like I said, I am no pool expert but I played one on TV once.

When we ordered our pool installation the contractor originally wanted
to put the pump, filter and heat pump in a location near the pool that
would be noisy, very visible and would detract from the whole cabana and
landscaping work. I argued to install them behind the cabana, out of
sight and where they wouldn't be heard. The pool contractor balked,
stating that the pump manufacturer (Hayward) did not recommend placing
the equipment that far away from the pool and would not warranty their
performance. The whole project came to a halt.

I researched the pumps available from Hayward and taught myself to do
all the conductance calculations to determine water piping diameters,
manifolding and valving. I then found a Hayward "SuperPump" in their
catalog that met all the performance criteria for the conductance
calculations. I submitted all the data to the pool contractor who
forwarded them to Hayward. Hayward responded within a week giving a
thumbs up to the design and our preferred location of the equipment and
stated that a full warranty would apply.

Contractors sometimes try to take the easy route.

Contractors want to build the same cookie cutter pool they put
everywhere else. I had the Centex guys design my pool, then I started
looking at design criteria on a few web sites (calculating head etc)

I was able to use a smaller pump, farther away, simply by changing the
path and pipe sizes.
I used 3" right up to the 2" loop that runs around the pool (instead
of a single pipe). I kept all of the runs as straight as I could and
when I was done, the guy from the pool company was simply amazed at
what the pressure and vacuum side were.
I was able to turn my pool over with a 1hp pump as fast as he planned
with a 1.5HP pump and the equipment is 30 feet farther away. (behind
the garage)
I used a lot more and bigger pipe than they would have but I got that
money back in electric savings in the first year.



No comment. Don't want to start another endless pool design discussion.
:-)

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On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:32:56 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief
that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :)

===

Nonsense, all it takes is a few dinero. Since we are frequently away
for months at a time, everything is set up to run on autopilot. For
about $80/month we have a pool service that shows up once a week for
about 15 minutes a visit. They take care of everything and I can
monitor them and the pool on the web cam where ever we happen to be.

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On 2/25/2014 7:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:32:56 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief
that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :)

===

Nonsense, all it takes is a few dinero. Since we are frequently away
for months at a time, everything is set up to run on autopilot. For
about $80/month we have a pool service that shows up once a week for
about 15 minutes a visit. They take care of everything and I can
monitor them and the pool on the web cam where ever we happen to be.


Yup, we did the same thing with the houses in Florida when we had them.
We were in MA for 7 to 9 months of the year and didn't close up the
pools down there. They'd turn to swamps.

On second thought ... Harry has a point....

Pools are nice but our next house won't have one. We just don't use the
one we have, especially with all the grandkids growing up or moving
away. We really didn't use the ones in Florida much either.

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On 2/25/2014 8:42 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:16:24 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/25/2014 7:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:32:56 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief
that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :)

===

Nonsense, all it takes is a few dinero. Since we are frequently away
for months at a time, everything is set up to run on autopilot. For
about $80/month we have a pool service that shows up once a week for
about 15 minutes a visit. They take care of everything and I can
monitor them and the pool on the web cam where ever we happen to be.


Yup, we did the same thing with the houses in Florida when we had them.
We were in MA for 7 to 9 months of the year and didn't close up the
pools down there. They'd turn to swamps.

On second thought ... Harry has a point....

Pools are nice but our next house won't have one. We just don't use the
one we have, especially with all the grandkids growing up or moving
away. We really didn't use the ones in Florida much either.




We still have grand kids and will for at least 10 more years before
they outgrow us. Besides Mr Ed would never speak to us again if we did
anything to the pool.

I still like the pool tho and I do use it.

We thought a lot before we built it because I really didn't want a
reflecting pond nobody ever gets into


I was not overly thrilled at putting in a pool here but Mrs.E. really
wanted it for the "kids". I couldn't convince her to let them go get
their own pool ... which they ended up doing anyway. But they and there
kids still use ours.

Big problem with an in-ground pool up here is you'll never get your
money back on them when it's time to sell. That's where an above ground
pool has it's advantages. When you don't need it or want it anymore,
just tear it down and either sell it or junk it. We put quite a bit of
$$ into the pool, cabana and landscaping. Doesn't really add a nickle
to the home value.

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On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 21:32:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Big problem with an in-ground pool up here is you'll never get your
money back on them when it's time to sell.

===

Around here it can be difficult to sell a house without a pool. A lot
of people who retire here from the north have a pool on their mind as
part of there dream house. It does add a lot of tropical ambience
and is very decorative even if you don't use it, especially if you
light it up at night as we do. I use ours however, quite nice after a
day of sanding and varnishing.

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On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 23:14:50 -0500, wrote:

My plan B is to get the guy who made the new top for my boat lift to
do it.
This guy works with 20 oz or heavier poly tarp material. That is not
to be confused with the 4-6 oz material you see in a "heavy duty" tarp
at the Home Depot. This is what they make logging truck tarps out of
but it comes in a lot of colors and some patterns. He will make
anything you want.

===

That's the way I'd go. We had a new flybridge enclosure made last
year out of so called "trucker's vinyl" (vinyl coated polyester),
probably the same material you are talking about. It is 20 oz vinyl
and has all welded seems so there is no where it can leak. It is
much more durable than Sunbrella, stretches into place, and routinely
lasts more than 10 years down in the Caribbean. Unless you examine it
very closely it looks the same as Sunbrella.