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On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:06:45 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:46:48 -0500, wrote:

I am starting to prefer the teflon paste.

===

Yes. I just finished a fairly complex plumbing job on the boat (new
distribution manifold for 4 zones of A/C cooling water). It has more
than 15 individual pipe joints and is driven by a 1 hp pool pump so
there is lots of pressure and lots of opportunity for leaks. Knock
on wood, everything worked fine with no leaks first time it was
powered up. I've always used teflon tape previously but I've had my
share of failed joints with that.

The directions that come with the compression fittings I've bought or looked at said to use no tape
or compound.

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On 2/24/2014 6:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/24/14, 6:28 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2014 5:54 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/24/14, 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:12:01 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/24/14, 5:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:18:14 -0500, KC wrote:


Averted a disaster the other night... Went down stairs about 10 pm
to do
a load of laundry and noticed a seal had blown on the pressure
guage on
my water system in the basement and was pouring what must have
been a
gallon every couple minutes.. I must have found it less than ten
minutes
in and capped it off before my basement flooded.. it was just one of
those things. If I had not done laundry that night, my house
would be
****ed right now...


I have been fighting a new Hayward filter for my spa. This thing
seems
to have some oversized 1.5" NPT hubs on it and you can't get a
regular
male adapter to seal.
I have cut the plumbing open and replaced it about 5 times so far.
Last time I went with schedule 80 pipe nipples with 1/4" cut off the
end that I could run in a little farther than a regular fitting with
a shoulder on it and that seems to be working.



You could always hire a competent plumber, but, of course, you prefer
tinkering. :)

The problem is not the plumber, it is the material. If the fittings do
not mate properly, no amount of skill would fix it. I suppose I could
have glued it up as a "pool plumber" actually advised but then you are
****ed if you have to take it apart again. Instead of a dollar
fitting, you are buying a $250 filter housing.

BTW your regular plumber is not really a pool plumber anyway. They
really don't like screwing with them. Pool plumbers tend to be the kid
at the pool store who got in the business because he likes the smell
of the glue.
The builder my wife worked for (Centex) had their own pool company and
I was not impressed with the people working there.



Well, I will gladly plead ignorance about pools and pool maintenance.
Whenever we do a significant "home improvement" here, I always take into
account how much work it will generate for regular maintenance.
That's why I don't have underground sprinklers. Everyone I see around
here who has such a system has frequent visits from the underground
sprinkler install/maintain companies. I think pools fall into the same
category...lots of maintenance.


I have no particular affection for having a pool but after having four
of them in different houses, I have to admit that technology has made
routine maintenance chores almost non-existent. Automatic chlorine
generators (using salt) and a microprocessor than monitors and controls
it's operation has made the requirement for weekly chemical tests and
making constant adjustments obsolete. The pool we have takes some
cleanup when opened in the spring (because of our location) but after it
is up and running, that's about all we have to do for the summer. We
have the water tested 2 or 3 times during the season just to be sure
everything is ok and it always is. We also invested in a "Shark" that
automatically scoots around the pool bottom and sides, picking up any
debris that may have fallen in and settled. I change the diatomaceous
earth filter media two or three times during the start-up, but again,
once the pool is clear and clean, it's good for pretty much the whole
season.

Not like the old chlorine pools we had before.



Oh, and I don't like to swim in pools, either. Or lakes. Or Chesapeake
Bay. The ocean is about it for me. I don't know why that is.

Never liked the chlorine in pools. Are you saying it isn't used anymore?
That's a step in the right direction!


Chlorine is still used but in most newer pools it is generated by
electrically disassociating salt. So, you don't add chlorine or
chlorine tablets. You add salt. Bags of it.

When running properly, you can't smell or detect any chlorine presence.
The system controls the required chlorination much more accurately than
by using tablets or liquid. Plus, for some reason I don't totally
understand, a chlorine by salt pool has a silky feel to the water.

I love the ocean as well but a properly operating pool is a lot more
sanitary.

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On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:05:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2014 5:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:46:48 -0500, wrote:

I am starting to prefer the teflon paste.

===

Yes. I just finished a fairly complex plumbing job on the boat (new
distribution manifold for 4 zones of A/C cooling water). It has more
than 15 individual pipe joints and is driven by a 1 hp pool pump so
there is lots of pressure and lots of opportunity for leaks. Knock
on wood, everything worked fine with no leaks first time it was
powered up. I've always used teflon tape previously but I've had my
share of failed joints with that.


Teflon tape is tricky to use properly. It is often used in the high
vacuum industry for all the feedthrough fittings that need to seal
against a vacuum equivalent to 200 miles in space to atmospheric
pressure. Too little tape, it leaks. To much it leaks. One secret is
to wrap it in the direction of the thread, so when you are tightening
the connection fitting, the tape is not being stretched back against itself.

We couldn't use Teflon paste because it never completely cures and would
outgas into the vacuum.


===

I had some experience with high vacuum work many years ago near the
beginning of my adult life. It was a high energy synchrotron
particle accelerator at Cornell University and had a magnet ring 1/2
mile in circumference. There was a vacuum chamber running through the
middle of the magnets where the actual particle acceleration took
place.

http://www.chess.cornell.edu/Outreac...sMacCHESS.html

http://www.cornell.edu/outreach/prog...programid=1801

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On Monday, February 24, 2014 6:42:51 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:46:08 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 2/24/14, 2:55 PM, Poco Loco wrote:

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:43:54 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 2/24/14, 2:29 PM, Poco Loco wrote:

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 10:36:14 -0500, wrote:







But, I'm up to about 20 hours and still no leak.





Perhaps a diuretic would help.



Help what?



I see you got Don sucking snot!





Your inability to take a leak...



Do you find yourself humorous?

His attemps at humor are lame and sophomoric. But it did make Don laugh!

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On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:00:13 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Monday, February 24, 2014 6:42:51 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:46:08 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 2/24/14, 2:55 PM, Poco Loco wrote:

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:43:54 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 2/24/14, 2:29 PM, Poco Loco wrote:

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 10:36:14 -0500, wrote:







But, I'm up to about 20 hours and still no leak.





Perhaps a diuretic would help.



Help what?



I see you got Don sucking snot!





Your inability to take a leak...



Do you find yourself humorous?

His attemps at humor are lame and sophomoric. But it did make Don laugh!

Was that what that was? I thought his nose was running. My bad.

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On 2/24/2014 6:47 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2014 6:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/24/14, 6:28 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2014 5:54 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/24/14, 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:12:01 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/24/14, 5:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:18:14 -0500, KC
wrote:


Averted a disaster the other night... Went down stairs about 10 pm
to do
a load of laundry and noticed a seal had blown on the pressure
guage on
my water system in the basement and was pouring what must have
been a
gallon every couple minutes.. I must have found it less than ten
minutes
in and capped it off before my basement flooded.. it was just
one of
those things. If I had not done laundry that night, my house
would be
****ed right now...


I have been fighting a new Hayward filter for my spa. This thing
seems
to have some oversized 1.5" NPT hubs on it and you can't get a
regular
male adapter to seal.
I have cut the plumbing open and replaced it about 5 times so far.
Last time I went with schedule 80 pipe nipples with 1/4" cut off the
end that I could run in a little farther than a regular fitting
with
a shoulder on it and that seems to be working.



You could always hire a competent plumber, but, of course, you prefer
tinkering. :)

The problem is not the plumber, it is the material. If the fittings do
not mate properly, no amount of skill would fix it. I suppose I could
have glued it up as a "pool plumber" actually advised but then you are
****ed if you have to take it apart again. Instead of a dollar
fitting, you are buying a $250 filter housing.

BTW your regular plumber is not really a pool plumber anyway. They
really don't like screwing with them. Pool plumbers tend to be the kid
at the pool store who got in the business because he likes the smell
of the glue.
The builder my wife worked for (Centex) had their own pool company and
I was not impressed with the people working there.



Well, I will gladly plead ignorance about pools and pool maintenance.
Whenever we do a significant "home improvement" here, I always take
into
account how much work it will generate for regular maintenance.
That's why I don't have underground sprinklers. Everyone I see around
here who has such a system has frequent visits from the underground
sprinkler install/maintain companies. I think pools fall into the same
category...lots of maintenance.


I have no particular affection for having a pool but after having four
of them in different houses, I have to admit that technology has made
routine maintenance chores almost non-existent. Automatic chlorine
generators (using salt) and a microprocessor than monitors and controls
it's operation has made the requirement for weekly chemical tests and
making constant adjustments obsolete. The pool we have takes some
cleanup when opened in the spring (because of our location) but after it
is up and running, that's about all we have to do for the summer. We
have the water tested 2 or 3 times during the season just to be sure
everything is ok and it always is. We also invested in a "Shark" that
automatically scoots around the pool bottom and sides, picking up any
debris that may have fallen in and settled. I change the diatomaceous
earth filter media two or three times during the start-up, but again,
once the pool is clear and clean, it's good for pretty much the whole
season.

Not like the old chlorine pools we had before.



Oh, and I don't like to swim in pools, either. Or lakes. Or Chesapeake
Bay. The ocean is about it for me. I don't know why that is.

Never liked the chlorine in pools. Are you saying it isn't used anymore?
That's a step in the right direction!


Chlorine is still used but in most newer pools it is generated by
electrically disassociating salt. So, you don't add chlorine or
chlorine tablets. You add salt. Bags of it.

When running properly, you can't smell or detect any chlorine presence.
The system controls the required chlorination much more accurately than
by using tablets or liquid. Plus, for some reason I don't totally
understand, a chlorine by salt pool has a silky feel to the water.

I love the ocean as well but a properly operating pool is a lot more
sanitary.




Think water softener salt.

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On 2/24/2014 6:55 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:05:10 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/24/2014 5:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:46:48 -0500, wrote:

I am starting to prefer the teflon paste.

===

Yes. I just finished a fairly complex plumbing job on the boat (new
distribution manifold for 4 zones of A/C cooling water). It has more
than 15 individual pipe joints and is driven by a 1 hp pool pump so
there is lots of pressure and lots of opportunity for leaks. Knock
on wood, everything worked fine with no leaks first time it was
powered up. I've always used teflon tape previously but I've had my
share of failed joints with that.


Teflon tape is tricky to use properly. It is often used in the high
vacuum industry for all the feedthrough fittings that need to seal
against a vacuum equivalent to 200 miles in space to atmospheric
pressure. Too little tape, it leaks. To much it leaks. One secret is
to wrap it in the direction of the thread, so when you are tightening
the connection fitting, the tape is not being stretched back against itself.

We couldn't use Teflon paste because it never completely cures and would
outgas into the vacuum.


===

I had some experience with high vacuum work many years ago near the
beginning of my adult life. It was a high energy synchrotron
particle accelerator at Cornell University and had a magnet ring 1/2
mile in circumference. There was a vacuum chamber running through the
middle of the magnets where the actual particle acceleration took
place.

http://www.chess.cornell.edu/Outreac...sMacCHESS.html

http://www.cornell.edu/outreach/prog...programid=1801


The vacuum requirements in a system like that precludes use of o-rings
and teflon tape. They will seal, but they are permeable meaning the
smaller gas molecules will work their way through the teflon or o-ring
material. In systems like that, all metal seals are typically used.
They are usually copper rings used in a feedthrough called a "Con-Flat".
The fitting is stainless and has machined knife edges that, when
tightened, compress into the copper ring forming the seal.

High vacuum levels are hard to visualize. The best way to describe it
is "mean free path" which is the distance a gas molecule will travel
before crashing into another gas molecule. At atmospheric pressure,
that distance is so short to be almost immeasurable. At high vacuum
levels (like that of space) the mean free path distance is more like 3
feet or more. In ultra-high vacuum systems the distance is even greater.

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On 2/24/2014 6:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:32:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/24/2014 5:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:18:14 -0500, KC wrote:


Averted a disaster the other night... Went down stairs about 10 pm to do
a load of laundry and noticed a seal had blown on the pressure guage on
my water system in the basement and was pouring what must have been a
gallon every couple minutes.. I must have found it less than ten minutes
in and capped it off before my basement flooded.. it was just one of
those things. If I had not done laundry that night, my house would be
****ed right now...


I have been fighting a new Hayward filter for my spa. This thing seems
to have some oversized 1.5" NPT hubs on it and you can't get a regular
male adapter to seal.
I have cut the plumbing open and replaced it about 5 times so far.
Last time I went with schedule 80 pipe nipples with 1/4" cut off the
end that I could run in a little farther than a regular fitting with
a shoulder on it and that seems to be working.



This stuff in a pinch is absolutly the most valuable tool in my plumbing
pouch. I keep one in the truck one in the camper.. etc.. the stuff will
work in any conditions, any time, any place, and I have a couple repairs
I did in Essex nearly 10 years ago that haven't dropped a drop till last
summer when I took the lengths of pipe out and replaced them....

http://www.lowes.com/pd_26668-66601-...ductId=1076397

Just get a pack next time you are out, it's like having a cool glue in
your drawer, it WILL come in handy someday...

Since the leak was at the joint up against the filter housing, I am
not sure how tape would fix it.

I really wanted to fix it right anyway.


This stuff will mold around anything... just spend a couple bucks next
time you are in Lowes or similar and check it out. Open the pack and
play with it, you will see.

It's main capability is to form itself into one solid (seemingly) chunk
of patch as it sticks to itself and becomes part of itself as you wrap
it. It's also very stretchy so you can cross back and fourth and cover
even broken joints of different size tubing, etc...

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On 2/24/2014 7:15 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/24/2014 6:47 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2014 6:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/24/14, 6:28 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2014 5:54 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/24/14, 5:38 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:12:01 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/24/14, 5:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:18:14 -0500, KC
wrote:


Averted a disaster the other night... Went down stairs about 10 pm
to do
a load of laundry and noticed a seal had blown on the pressure
guage on
my water system in the basement and was pouring what must have
been a
gallon every couple minutes.. I must have found it less than ten
minutes
in and capped it off before my basement flooded.. it was just
one of
those things. If I had not done laundry that night, my house
would be
****ed right now...


I have been fighting a new Hayward filter for my spa. This thing
seems
to have some oversized 1.5" NPT hubs on it and you can't get a
regular
male adapter to seal.
I have cut the plumbing open and replaced it about 5 times so far.
Last time I went with schedule 80 pipe nipples with 1/4" cut off
the
end that I could run in a little farther than a regular fitting
with
a shoulder on it and that seems to be working.



You could always hire a competent plumber, but, of course, you
prefer
tinkering. :)

The problem is not the plumber, it is the material. If the
fittings do
not mate properly, no amount of skill would fix it. I suppose I could
have glued it up as a "pool plumber" actually advised but then you
are
****ed if you have to take it apart again. Instead of a dollar
fitting, you are buying a $250 filter housing.

BTW your regular plumber is not really a pool plumber anyway. They
really don't like screwing with them. Pool plumbers tend to be the
kid
at the pool store who got in the business because he likes the smell
of the glue.
The builder my wife worked for (Centex) had their own pool company
and
I was not impressed with the people working there.



Well, I will gladly plead ignorance about pools and pool maintenance.
Whenever we do a significant "home improvement" here, I always take
into
account how much work it will generate for regular maintenance.
That's why I don't have underground sprinklers. Everyone I see around
here who has such a system has frequent visits from the underground
sprinkler install/maintain companies. I think pools fall into the same
category...lots of maintenance.


I have no particular affection for having a pool but after having four
of them in different houses, I have to admit that technology has made
routine maintenance chores almost non-existent. Automatic chlorine
generators (using salt) and a microprocessor than monitors and
controls
it's operation has made the requirement for weekly chemical tests and
making constant adjustments obsolete. The pool we have takes some
cleanup when opened in the spring (because of our location) but
after it
is up and running, that's about all we have to do for the summer. We
have the water tested 2 or 3 times during the season just to be sure
everything is ok and it always is. We also invested in a "Shark" that
automatically scoots around the pool bottom and sides, picking up any
debris that may have fallen in and settled. I change the diatomaceous
earth filter media two or three times during the start-up, but again,
once the pool is clear and clean, it's good for pretty much the whole
season.

Not like the old chlorine pools we had before.



Oh, and I don't like to swim in pools, either. Or lakes. Or Chesapeake
Bay. The ocean is about it for me. I don't know why that is.

Never liked the chlorine in pools. Are you saying it isn't used anymore?
That's a step in the right direction!


Chlorine is still used but in most newer pools it is generated by
electrically disassociating salt. So, you don't add chlorine or
chlorine tablets. You add salt. Bags of it.

When running properly, you can't smell or detect any chlorine presence.
The system controls the required chlorination much more accurately than
by using tablets or liquid. Plus, for some reason I don't totally
understand, a chlorine by salt pool has a silky feel to the water.

I love the ocean as well but a properly operating pool is a lot more
sanitary.




Think water softener salt.

It's awesome swimming in the salted water in our pool...

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On 2/24/2014 6:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/24/2014 5:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:46:48 -0500, wrote:

I am starting to prefer the teflon paste.

===

Yes. I just finished a fairly complex plumbing job on the boat (new
distribution manifold for 4 zones of A/C cooling water). It has more
than 15 individual pipe joints and is driven by a 1 hp pool pump so
there is lots of pressure and lots of opportunity for leaks. Knock
on wood, everything worked fine with no leaks first time it was
powered up. I've always used teflon tape previously but I've had my
share of failed joints with that.


Teflon tape is tricky to use properly. It is often used in the high
vacuum industry for all the feedthrough fittings that need to seal
against a vacuum equivalent to 200 miles in space to atmospheric
pressure. Too little tape, it leaks. To much it leaks. One secret is
to wrap it in the direction of the thread, so when you are tightening
the connection fitting, the tape is not being stretched back against
itself.

We couldn't use Teflon paste because it never completely cures and would
outgas into the vacuum.



So, is the end of the tape facing the direction of twist, or away from
the direction of twist... I am confused.