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On 2/25/2014 12:48 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/25/2014 12:44 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/25/2014 12:10 PM, wrote: On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 06:40:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: You are shocking the water every time it goes through the generator. I have a couple of neighbors with salt systems. About half are happy, one has tossed it and gone back because they could not keep the water clear without shocking the pool once a week. All of them still shock it now and then. I think a lot has to do with how hot the water is running. The one with the real problems cruises at 90 or more all year because she wants it hot. They have 10 solar collectors for a 10,000 gallon pool and she keeps if covered most of the year. I don't know where you got all your information but it's nonsense. I'd say bull****, but you're a nice guy. :-) The generated chlorine is in the pool water and registers in the pool sample tests indicated by free chlorine and total chlorine. I can "shock" the pool if necessary by enabling a timer setting on the controller to run the cell continuously for a pre-programed period of time (like 24 hours). If you do that after the pool has stabilized you can smell the chlorine by just walking by the pool. The chlorine smell isn't coming from the generator cell. :-) I just know what the guy told us. Have you even seen one of those cells run in a clear glass vessel? He had one at the seminar. When it runs there is a chlorine foam that turns the water greenish milky white and by the time it gets to the end of the vessel, most of that chlorine is gone, put back into the salt compound. Maybe the guy who invented it does not understand how it works. I don't really know. Granted most of the thrust of his pitch was the convoluted process he had to go through to get the U/L listing. If the chlorine concentration ends up being as strong as it is in a regular pool (3 ppm or so), a lot of the sales pitch goes out the window. You like parts per trillion. The pool industry uses parts per million to express salt content. The salt content in the water in a salt system is maintained between 2,800 and about 3,600 parts per million (max). A human cannot detect or sense the presence of salt in the water below about 5,000 parts per million (your contact lens solution example). I have never tried cooking pasta in the pool. -) Parts per THOUSAND not trillion. Don't go all Harry on me here. I also want to know how they test down to that precision without using lab grade equipment. It certainly isn't going to be one of those aquarium testers. If you can't taste a teaspoon of salt in 2 liters of water, you eat too much salt. If you know people who were dissatisfied because the pool water wasn't as clear with a salt system, that would be the first time I've ever heard that complaint. A salt system's water is typically clearer than a conventional tablet or liquid chlorine system. The generated chlorine is purer than any tablet or liquid and it's concentration is lower. Maybe the person or persons that reported that to you had other filter problems. I just know they had a pool company guy there almost every day, all last summer. The last I heard they were going to get their money back on the salt system and go back to regular chlorine. Next time I see them I will ask what happened. Salt sanitation is great. keep the salt concentration between 3000 and 3600 PPM and adjust chlorine levels between 2 and 5 PPM. Keep PH between 7.4 and 7.6 PPM and you're good to go. Stabilizer at 50 PPM helps keep the other indicators from bouncing. There's a couple other things to test for but they're minor. Maybe the system couldn't keep up.... The heat and sun (iirc) take the chlorine back to a salt state, where it goes through the filter and gets converted back to chlorine. If the system isn't big enough, and the sun is direct all day, maybe they just didn't know what they were doing... You may have hit the nail on the head. Greg says he'll find out. |
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On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:36:51 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:
Since when did you start worrying about the cost of a gun? If the Eagle Scout one wasn't a tad gaudy, I'd say go for it. The kid would have it forever and maybe pass on down to your great grandchildren. I really can't see the extra $800 to make the gun 'pretty'. It doesn't make the rifle a better rifle. I plan to get the receiver cover engraved, if possible. If nothing else, I could have a brass plate engraved and mounted on the stock. I agree with you that the Eagle Scout Golden Boy is a tad gaudy. The kid will still have it forever and pass it down as he desires. |
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On 2/25/2014 12:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 07:00:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/25/2014 1:34 AM, wrote: We had a pitch at an inspector seminar from one of the engineers who designed one of the first listed salt to chlorine generators. The reaction of NaCl to free chlorine is very short lived and most of the chlorine is recombined very quickly after it leaves the actual generator element so very little circulates in the pool.. That is not really important since it has done the germ killing by then at a very high concentration of Cl. Gregg, think about what this guy claims. The cell is only about 10 inches long and the water flow going through it is very high. It doesn't spend anywhere near the time in the cell to kill off any germs. There's no way one pass through the cell can add enough chlorine to sanitize the water. The sanitation and germ killing takes place because the generated chlorine accumulates and resides in the pool water, not simply the cell. Have you ever looked at an ozone system? They clean the water in the cell too. BTW what does your water test at in the pool? Not sure what you are asking. Test for what? I know it reports free available chlorine and total chlorine as two of the test report items. |
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On 2/25/14, 1:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 12:14 PM, wrote: On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 07:00:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/25/2014 1:34 AM, wrote: We had a pitch at an inspector seminar from one of the engineers who designed one of the first listed salt to chlorine generators. The reaction of NaCl to free chlorine is very short lived and most of the chlorine is recombined very quickly after it leaves the actual generator element so very little circulates in the pool.. That is not really important since it has done the germ killing by then at a very high concentration of Cl. Gregg, think about what this guy claims. The cell is only about 10 inches long and the water flow going through it is very high. It doesn't spend anywhere near the time in the cell to kill off any germs. There's no way one pass through the cell can add enough chlorine to sanitize the water. The sanitation and germ killing takes place because the generated chlorine accumulates and resides in the pool water, not simply the cell. Have you ever looked at an ozone system? They clean the water in the cell too. BTW what does your water test at in the pool? Not sure what you are asking. Test for what? I know it reports free available chlorine and total chlorine as two of the test report items. What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :) |
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On 2/25/2014 1:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :) Naw, we are just debating how a pool gets chlorinated using a salt system. I am no pool expert but curiosity has prompted me to try to understand the process. That said, and having had three conventional pools (two in Florida and one up here) and one salt based system at our current pool the advantages of the salt system are crystal clear to me (pun intended). 1. Far less maintenance. Pretty much automatic. 2. Cheaper to operate. Salt is cheap. Pool chemicals aren't. 3. Clearer water. 4. Softer water. 5. No need to inventory or store dangerous chemicals. Only disadvantage is a higher initial cost. I should mention however that all salt systems are not the same. Some are manual systems and need more checking, adjustments and intervention. We opted for the fully automatic, microprocessor based system that senses and adjusts as requirements and demand dictate. At the beginning of the summer season the cell is operating approximately 55-60 percent of the time that the pool pump is on. By the middle of the season it has dropped to about 45 percent of the time and towards fall it is operating about 30-35 percent of the pump on time. |
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On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:55:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/25/2014 1:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote: What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :) Naw, we are just debating how a pool gets chlorinated using a salt system. I am no pool expert but curiosity has prompted me to try to understand the process. That said, and having had three conventional pools (two in Florida and one up here) and one salt based system at our current pool the advantages of the salt system are crystal clear to me (pun intended). 1. Far less maintenance. Pretty much automatic. 2. Cheaper to operate. Salt is cheap. Pool chemicals aren't. 3. Clearer water. 4. Softer water. 5. No need to inventory or store dangerous chemicals. Only disadvantage is a higher initial cost. I should mention however that all salt systems are not the same. Some are manual systems and need more checking, adjustments and intervention. We opted for the fully automatic, microprocessor based system that senses and adjusts as requirements and demand dictate. At the beginning of the summer season the cell is operating approximately 55-60 percent of the time that the pool pump is on. By the middle of the season it has dropped to about 45 percent of the time and towards fall it is operating about 30-35 percent of the pump on time. A friend in North Carolina has a new pool - a year or two old. During a recent visit he said it was a 'salt water pool' although the salt was very mild. He bragged about how easy the maintenance was compared to other pools he'd had. He loved it. If I were ever to have a pool, which I'm not, I'd definitely be looking into that salt system. |
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On 2/25/2014 1:55 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 1:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote: What little I have read of this thread reinforces my long-held belief that owning a swimming pool requires more effort than it supplies fun. :) Naw, we are just debating how a pool gets chlorinated using a salt system. I am no pool expert but curiosity has prompted me to try to understand the process. That said, and having had three conventional pools (two in Florida and one up here) and one salt based system at our current pool the advantages of the salt system are crystal clear to me (pun intended). 1. Far less maintenance. Pretty much automatic. 2. Cheaper to operate. Salt is cheap. Pool chemicals aren't. 3. Clearer water. 4. Softer water. 5. No need to inventory or store dangerous chemicals. Only disadvantage is a higher initial cost. I should mention however that all salt systems are not the same. Some are manual systems and need more checking, adjustments and intervention. We opted for the fully automatic, microprocessor based system that senses and adjusts as requirements and demand dictate. At the beginning of the summer season the cell is operating approximately 55-60 percent of the time that the pool pump is on. By the middle of the season it has dropped to about 45 percent of the time and towards fall it is operating about 30-35 percent of the pump on time. Like I said.. there have been dozens of pools tried in my neighborhood for 40 years... 99% fail because of the area and conditions. I am the only one with a pool on our street, and coincidentally the only one of three that has survived more than a year / I am the only one using a salt system.... |
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On 2/25/2014 1:25 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 12:10 PM, wrote: If the chlorine concentration ends up being as strong as it is in a regular pool (3 ppm or so), a lot of the sales pitch goes out the window. One of the advantages of a salt system is that the chlorine level required in the pool water is less than that of a conventional pool. What does all the sanitizing work is "available free chlorine ions" which is *all* the cell generates via electrolysis. Bulk chlorine in the form of tablets or liquid contains less free chlorine ions, so more of it must be used. Not only that but I think the constant levels instead of the wild swings in a manual system, allow for a lower level across the board to maintain instead of chasing a half day or so of too low levels.... |
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