On 1/21/2014 11:48 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/21/2014 7:51 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:22:07 -0500, Hank wrote:


Heres my avg monthly kwh for the past 5 years 2078 2301 2326 2089
1784.
Have fun with those numbers.
snip
Did you notice my 2013 monthly average was over $300 less than 2012.
Did you notice that 2013 was the lowest average in the last 5 years.
Prior to 2013 I was using incand., CFL, and fluorescent tubes.
I still have 8 4 ft tubes and 2 2 footers. The rest is LED.
I saved exactly $468 last year. Enough to buy 46 more LEDs @10 per.

Garbage in garbage out.
To many variables.
Heat and air conditioning used, hot water heater use.
More or less overnight company, Etc.
No saying you didn't use less for lighting, I just don't think you can
quantify it using overall electric usage.




How else would you do it?


I have a separate meter on my water heater and on another on a room
where I keep my business freezers.
I just think there are to many variables to rely on the monthly or
yearly changes to think those are just a change in light costs.
When I hurt my back, my electric use went up, hot baths and a heating
pad added to the use.
Mikek



Too much of a coincidence, eh?

On 1/21/2014 11:50 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Hmmm... just had a thought. I wonder if they make a generator that
runs off of furnace fuel oil. Probably do. That would be more
practical as we have two 330 gal oil tanks and one 275 gal. We keep
them topped off.


Why wouldn't a diesel genny work?

On 1/21/2014 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:54:48 -0600, amdx wrote:



That would make an 11.6% reduction in the amount of residential
electricity used. I assumed the algore lights use 10% of the old style.
That may be to low.
That's an extra $550 a year in your pocket.
Mikek

I walked around last night to see what was on. I had a pair of 4 ft
T-8s in the kitchen, the light over my chair (a 250w dimmed to about
25-30%), a can with a 75w dimmed to 40% or so over my wife's chair and
the TV. Everything else was on motion control.
That is typical for us here.
No way is lighting much more than a couple percent of my electric
bill.,

I really think the answer is not better bulbs, it is in better
lighting plans. A $20 occupancy sensor will pay for itself a lot
faster than a $20 LED bulb that you don't turn off when you no longer
need it.
There is also the convenience of having the lights come on, wherever
you go and go off when you leave.


BTW I have never said I won't use CFLs, I have a bunch of them
installed already. My only comment was it is not a place where the
government should be "banning" anything.
I am still testing the theory that CFLs are not very tolerant of a lot
of switching but I know they don't like solid state switching devices.
The places I have them need relay (3 wire) motion detectors, not solid
state (2 wire) occupancy sensors. The problem with a motion detector
vs an occupancy sensor is the motion detector does not retrigger when
it is on The light goes off and comes back on when you move. That is
OK for your walking around lights but sucks if you are staying in one
place very long. If you put an incandescent somewhere in the O/S
circuit they work with a CFL but that somewhat defeats the purpose.


I have some battery operated motion sensor lights. They help light the
way to some of my light switches mounted in awkward locations in the camper

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

On 1/21/2014 11:44 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:51:19 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:22:07 -0500, Hank wrote:


Heres my avg monthly kwh for the past 5 years 2078 2301 2326 2089 1784.
Have fun with those numbers.

12/31/2013 34 2209 $236.55 Electric Bill
11/27/2013 28 1667 $175.05 Electric Bill
10/30/2013 30 2278 $244.37 Electric Bill
09/30/2013 31 2567 $273.18 Electric Bill
08/30/2013 30 2427 $258.80 Electric Bill
07/31/2013 33 2407 $256.56 Electric Bill
06/28/2013 28 2259 $239.92 Electric Bill
05/31/2013 31 2032 $214.40 Electric Bill
04/30/2013 32 2010 $211.92 Electric Bill
03/29/2013 29 1895 $198.61 Electric Bill
02/28/2013 28 1658 $169.99 Electric Bill
01/31/2013 31 2097 $218.64 Electric Bill
12/31/2012 31 2464 $262.28 Electric Bill
11/30/2012 30 2021 $212.44 Electric Bill
10/31/2012 33 2569 $274.07 Electric Bill
09/28/2012 28 2129 $224.52 Electric Bill
08/31/2012 31 2439 $259.38 Electric Bill
07/31/2012 32 2547 $271.54 Electric Bill
06/29/2012 29 2084 $220.23 Electric Bill
05/31/2012 31 2128 $225.20 Electric Bill
04/30/2012 31 2040 $214.29 Electric Bill
03/30/2012 30 1786 $185.77 Electric Bill
02/29/2012 29 1795 $186.76 Electric Bill
01/31/2012 32 2101 $221.15 Electric Bill

Did you notice my 2013 monthly average was over $300 less than 2012.
Did you notice that 2013 was the lowest average in the last 5 years.
Prior to 2013 I was using incand., CFL, and fluorescent tubes.
I still have 8 4 ft tubes and 2 2 footers. The rest is LED.
I saved exactly $468 last year. Enough to buy 46 more LEDs @10 per.

What else did you do to cut usage?

Nothing, why?

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844

On 1/21/2014 1:00 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:58:57 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


Isn't furnace oil fuel a variation of diesel?

Same stuff, without the taxes



Not so. Fundamentally they are the same but diesel fuel is refined to a
higher level, contains seasonal additives, is "cleaner" and has a much
higher cetane rating. Fuel oil for your furnace has a much lower
volatility rating and is not designed or blended for use in a diesel
engine. I am not saying it won't burn, but it's not doing the engine
any favors and won't produce much power assuming it runs.

Try burning it in a diesel engine in cold climates and your not going
anywhere.

On 1/21/2014 1:34 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount Plus fuel oil Plus natural gas TOTAL
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Don't get too giddy. Fill in the rest. ;-)

On 1/21/2014 1:44 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:18:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 11:43 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:51:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

You can't make electricity cheaper than you can buy it.

By a factor of at least 5x. It can be way more for an old technology
generator.

A 5kw generator you might find at the home store with a Briggs engine
and a regular alternator will burn at least a gallon and a half an
hour. That ends up being about a buck a KWH.



That's what I discovered quickly with the 12kw generator I used in
Florida following Wilma.

The first day I ran it for about 6 hours (or less) and went through
about 8 gallons of gas. That's when I started recalculating things and
just used the little Honda.

The problem with them is that they have to run at 3600 RPM regardless of
load in order to generate 60 cycles. The inverter types like the Honda
can run at idle and still generate up to 6 amps of 120 volts (EU-2000).
If the load increases like when the refrigerator compressor kicked on,
the Honda would temporarily increase speed but then drop back to idle.


These two go on my Christmas list.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/34961

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ompliant/43844


You have to buy those guys in pairs? How come?

On 1/21/2014 1:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 1:00 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:58:57 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


Isn't furnace oil fuel a variation of diesel?

Same stuff, without the taxes



Not so. Fundamentally they are the same but diesel fuel is refined to a
higher level, contains seasonal additives, is "cleaner" and has a much
higher cetane rating. Fuel oil for your furnace has a much lower
volatility rating and is not designed or blended for use in a diesel
engine. I am not saying it won't burn, but it's not doing the engine
any favors and won't produce much power assuming it runs.

Try burning it in a diesel engine in cold climates and your not going
anywhere.


Cetane boosters are readily available.

I heard they mixed a little gasoline into the diesel oil to create
"winter blend". Maybe it's just an old wives tale.