"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 1/19/14, 9:31 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/18/2014 4:20 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 15:38:19 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 10:20:37 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


I wonder...could that be due to the population increase over the
past 40 years coupled with the
source of the increase? The number of small arms either
manufactured or imported during the past 25
years has gone from about 3.7 million to 8.7 million. I suppose
DHS accounts for a bunch, but it has
only about 230,000 employees. Even giving each of them a couple
guns doesn't account for the growth.

The handgun chart is really weird, showing 5% gains and drops in
household possession in two year
periods.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/co..._with_handguns


You can't get accurate stats on guns. Violates the 2nd.

In what way?

Unless guns are universally registered, it's just guessing.
Do you think universal registration violates the 2nd?
I have no opinion on that. You might have an opinion.
But the reason for lack of registration is the 2nd.
In any case, statistics on ownership are garbage.

I don't think universal registration, in and of itself, violates the 2nd.


I do think that universal registration makes universal confiscation
much more feasible.

I think that's what make it violate the 2nd .
The founders gave us the right to gun ownership so we would be able to
fight oppressive government. If you give THAT government the ability to
confiscate those guns, the 2nd is not in effect.
Mikek

My thread has drifted!





What the founders did with the Second Amendment was express their disdain
for a standing army, and it was an outgrowth of the Brits housing
uniformed troops in the homes of the colonists. What they created was a
mechanism for a trained and armed citizen militia that could easily be
organized when necessary. That trained and armed militia these days might
be the National Guard. It certainly isn't the untrained, undisciplined
rabble of firearms owners.

The concept of individuals here successfully pursuing a military action
against local, state, or national government is laughable, at best.

The Founding Fathers had everyone in the militia until the ripe old age of
40. Senior citizens of that time. Had nada to do with housing troops.
They used their personal firearms until they could get more. And if you do
not think the gun possessors of the USA could not win a war against the
armed forces you are drastically mistaken! WW1 was kicked off by a lone
gunman. How many of the US military will support the government against
the people? Look at what is happening and has happened in countries where
we do not have a will to win. Viet Nam, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan.

On 1/19/2014 1:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


But, it's not a standard 100 Watt light bulb.
You not seeing them at Walmart, Kmart etc.
Mikek

Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:39:51 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

There you go.
gfretwell has spoken on the Constitution.
And "predicted."

I did not speak for the Constitution, the SCOTUS did and that was how
they determined that NFA34 was legal.
GCA68 was simply an extension of NFA34

Many laws that were not structured that way were struck down by
Heller.


And a new court may say otherhwise.

As for the underground gun economy, it flourishes the most in places
where the laws are strictest. When will we ever learn the lesson of
prohibition?
Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs. I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Passing a law doesn't get guns registered, except for those guns whose
owners want to register them.
The people in Mass may have wanted gun registration, but all the guns
didn't come in and register
themselves.

Homicides have been dropping in Boston, but...

"Despite that encouraging news, the almost-year-end statistics reveal a
troubling reality: Although
police continue to confiscate guns, the street supply remains steady
enough for overall gun violence
to continue unabated. The number of 2013 shootings by Dec. 22 is almost
exactly what it was last
year: 246."

http://tinyurl.com/lr88lbk

How the hell are you going to keep people from having guns. Does not work
in England, does not really work in Canada. And when you figure some 3rd
world country is making AK47's in home shops with little electricity, how
you going to stop manufacturing here? Lots of older milling machines, for
sale cheap! Going to register every lathe?

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


There's no shortage because virtually nobody wants them.

I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Again, how relevant is gun registration if more than half of the guns
never get registered and nobody who plans to use them criminally ever
registers one.

We've been through this. It's simple mechanisms that get it done.
The gun owning population is much less than that of car owners.
How many cars are unregistered?
If it's decided to register guns, it will be done.
You will be dead before it happens, so you won't hve a say.
That's part of getting it done. Old farts dying off.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:16:43 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


There's no shortage because virtually nobody wants them.

I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Again, how relevant is gun registration if more than half of the guns
never get registered and nobody who plans to use them criminally ever
registers one.

We've been through this. It's simple mechanisms that get it done.
The gun owning population is much less than that of car owners.
How many cars are unregistered?
If it's decided to register guns, it will be done.
You will be dead before it happens, so you won't hve a say.
That's part of getting it done. Old farts dying off.

Uh, I'd venture to say that an unregistered car is much easier to spot than an unregistered gun. No?

I've got a small .38 Chief's Special, unregistered anywhere. How would it get 'done' unless I did
it, or someone searched my house and found it?

On 1/19/2014 3:07 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/19/2014 1:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg



But, it's not a standard 100 Watt light bulb.
You not seeing them at Walmart, Kmart etc.
Mikek



I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:16:43 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


There's no shortage because virtually nobody wants them.

I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Again, how relevant is gun registration if more than half of the guns
never get registered and nobody who plans to use them criminally ever
registers one.

We've been through this. It's simple mechanisms that get it done.
The gun owning population is much less than that of car owners.
How many cars are unregistered?
If it's decided to register guns, it will be done.
You will be dead before it happens, so you won't hve a say.
That's part of getting it done. Old farts dying off.

Uh, I'd venture to say that an unregistered car is much easier to spot than an unregistered gun. No?


Registration begins upon sale. Nothing to do with size.

I've got a small .38 Chief's Special, unregistered anywhere. How would it get 'done' unless I did
it, or someone searched my house and found it?

Up to you. If it's the law, it's your choice to break it.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 16:24:47 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:16:43 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


There's no shortage because virtually nobody wants them.

I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Again, how relevant is gun registration if more than half of the guns
never get registered and nobody who plans to use them criminally ever
registers one.

We've been through this. It's simple mechanisms that get it done.
The gun owning population is much less than that of car owners.
How many cars are unregistered?
If it's decided to register guns, it will be done.
You will be dead before it happens, so you won't hve a say.
That's part of getting it done. Old farts dying off.

Uh, I'd venture to say that an unregistered car is much easier to spot than an unregistered gun. No?


Registration begins upon sale. Nothing to do with size.

Only if the buyer and seller are obeying the law.

I've got a small .38 Chief's Special, unregistered anywhere. How would it get 'done' unless I did
it, or someone searched my house and found it?

Up to you. If it's the law, it's your choice to break it.

You just hit the nail on the head.

On 1/19/14, 1:46 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:43:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government.

Your buddies don't even complain of the overbearing taxes? Wow, mine has started doing that big
time. He's also not very happy with providing housing to all the Moroccan and Turkish folks that
have been flooding Holland since the borders went away.

Funny, fifteen-twenty years ago he was very happy with his 'socialist' country. Times have changed.
Good to know your buddies don't mind oppressive taxes.

My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

Norway would be a great place for you to live. You could get herring prepared in a tremendous
variety of ways - including raw.


Been there, done that.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:41:26 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 1:46 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:43:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government.

Your buddies don't even complain of the overbearing taxes? Wow, mine has started doing that big
time. He's also not very happy with providing housing to all the Moroccan and Turkish folks that
have been flooding Holland since the borders went away.

Funny, fifteen-twenty years ago he was very happy with his 'socialist' country. Times have changed.
Good to know your buddies don't mind oppressive taxes.

My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

Norway would be a great place for you to live. You could get herring prepared in a tremendous
variety of ways - including raw.


Been there, done that.

On a motorcycle trip to Stockholm, we took a ferry from Kiel, Germany to Gotenberg, Sweden. For an
extra 25 Deutsche Marks, we got the buffet on the ferry. One whole counter, about 15 feet long was
devoted solely to herring in its many forms = fried, pickled in various sauces, raw with various
sauces, and so on. What a pig out!

One of our group didn't want to spend the money. The next day, about halfway across Swededn, he got
hungry. We stopped at a little highway diner where he paid about the same amount of money for a
hamburger, fries, and soft drink. Sweden may be a socialist heaven, but it cost me almost $50 to
fill my motorcycle tank and about $5 for a wrapped (the cheap kind) loaf of bread at a supermarket.

But they put on a pretty good motorcycle rally.