Another dozen dead
 

"Mr. Luddite" nowayalso.jose.com wrote:
"Califbill" wrote in message
...

wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 20:35:53 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" nowayalso.jose.com
wrote:

If the screening done before joining worked, people with mental
illnesses or potential mental instability wouldn't be in the military
in the first place.
Problem is, diagnosing mental issues is not as straightforward as
looking for flat feet. I remember my pre-enlistment physical in
Boston.
They spent all day doing all kinds of physical tests. Then you go
into a room and sit down with a shrink. He asks you five or six
questions, then yells, "Next". Took about 5 minutes, if that.


I never talked to a shrink and my induction physical was in boot camp,
after I was signed up. Maybe that was because I was not drafted.
Pre induction, the only tests I took were on knowledge, aptitude and
skill.

I took a draft physical. Before I was drafted.

---------------------------

Yeah, I am somewhat surprised at some of the other experiences people
have described when joining or being inducted.

I spent two days in Boston with a bunch of other people before we
"officially" raised our hands and took the oath. One day was dedicated
to the physical and dental exams. Typical hurry up and wait and it took
most of the day. The other day was for taking tests, which also lasted
for about 3 hours. After all that, we were taken in smaller groups into
some sort of ceremonial roomthat was decorated with flags, historical
pictures and other Navy related things. An officer (forget what rank)
in dress blues administered the oath and we became government property.

I did not take the tests until the Draft Notice was lost in the mail. I
and mom had both moved. So booked to Air Force guy at Travis. He
administered tests.

Another dozen dead
 

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 9/19/13 5:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 9/19/13 3:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:42:18 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/19/13 2:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:03:45 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/19/13 11:56 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:02:15 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat union
guys Harry loves so much.

What does that have to do with how many whack jobs are in the military??

Just putting it perspective.



How would you know what the incidence of bipolar disorder might be among
organized construction workers?

By knowing lots of them.
One of the byproducts of my working class, no higher education,
proletariat life is I spent most of my life around the rank and file,
not the union leaders and business agents you sipped coffee with.

I also spent a lot of time around the trades here in Florida. The most
depressed are northern union types who moved here because there was no
work up there. Judy had a guy just recently (Michigan steelworker) who
she thought was most likely to show up and shoot everyone.
The club manager was afraid to fire him.



That's just amazing, Greg...I mean, of course, your ability to diagnose
specific mental illnesses without benefit of a higher education in the
field, training, apprenticeships, or working under the supervision of a
licensed professional in the field. All that non-education and
non-training has qualified you to diagnose bipolar disorder.

In the case of this guy, his wife told my wife about his history and
medication. She was afraid of him too.

Ahh, so you can't tell because you know "a lot of them," you had specific information.


Usually the tip off is the drugs they carry around.
Lithium ain't for a stuffy nose

That's true.


What's next on your bucket list, discovering the prevention and cure for
multiple sclerosis?

I never said I had a cure
Nobody really does., They can get the drugs dialed in to allow people
to function but that changes over time so they need constant
monitoring and a lot of these people stop taking them.
Worst case, they self medicate with alcohol or street drugs.

I understand you live vicariously through your wife but I have
actually lived around a lot of these people, on and off their meds.
People who would have you locking your car door if you saw them on the
street. Certainly nobody you would talk to down at the 7-11

Because of my wife's profession, I've met quite a few people with serious
mental/emotional disorders, including some who have been hospitalized for
long periods of time...years, in several cases.

BFD. My wife was around my profession of computer engineering for 40
years. She still does not like them or really understand them. She does
understand bipolar disorder. Her mom suffered from it even before my wife
was born. Probably a hell of a lot better understanding than the play toy
of a pseudo shrink.


There's nothing that compares to right-wing ignorance.

Left wing ignorance.

Another dozen dead
 

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 23:01:59 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:12:07 -0400, John H
wrote:

That was probably smart, although the Army did well by me. I was a high school grad, couldn't afford
college, and was a utility man on a survey team. I can't bitch too much.
--
My neighbor was a commander in the CG and he got me interested in
joining. The more I got into it the more interested I was in scoring a
good school
One of my geek buddies said if I took the CREI basic electronics and
basic electricity course (101 for Harry) I could get college credit
for if I went that way and I could do well on the Navy battery. I
tacked on trig.

When I went down to the recruiter, I was just another guy until I
scored 104 on a 100 question electronic test (with 8 bonus questions)
Suddenly it was "let's make a deal". The CG won.
A month later I was in Cape May with no hair getting hollerd at

They do like people who score well on their tests!
--

John H.

Hope you're having a great day!

Another dozen dead
 

On 9/20/2013 2:37 AM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 9/19/13 5:39 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 9/19/13 3:51 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:42:18 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/19/13 2:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:03:45 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/19/13 11:56 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:02:15 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat union
guys Harry loves so much.

What does that have to do with how many whack jobs are in the military??

Just putting it perspective.



How would you know what the incidence of bipolar disorder might be among
organized construction workers?

By knowing lots of them.
One of the byproducts of my working class, no higher education,
proletariat life is I spent most of my life around the rank and file,
not the union leaders and business agents you sipped coffee with.

I also spent a lot of time around the trades here in Florida. The most
depressed are northern union types who moved here because there was no
work up there. Judy had a guy just recently (Michigan steelworker) who
she thought was most likely to show up and shoot everyone.
The club manager was afraid to fire him.



That's just amazing, Greg...I mean, of course, your ability to diagnose
specific mental illnesses without benefit of a higher education in the
field, training, apprenticeships, or working under the supervision of a
licensed professional in the field. All that non-education and
non-training has qualified you to diagnose bipolar disorder.

In the case of this guy, his wife told my wife about his history and
medication. She was afraid of him too.

Ahh, so you can't tell because you know "a lot of them," you had specific information.


Usually the tip off is the drugs they carry around.
Lithium ain't for a stuffy nose

That's true.


What's next on your bucket list, discovering the prevention and cure for
multiple sclerosis?

I never said I had a cure
Nobody really does., They can get the drugs dialed in to allow people
to function but that changes over time so they need constant
monitoring and a lot of these people stop taking them.
Worst case, they self medicate with alcohol or street drugs.

I understand you live vicariously through your wife but I have
actually lived around a lot of these people, on and off their meds.
People who would have you locking your car door if you saw them on the
street. Certainly nobody you would talk to down at the 7-11

Because of my wife's profession, I've met quite a few people with serious
mental/emotional disorders, including some who have been hospitalized for
long periods of time...years, in several cases.

BFD. My wife was around my profession of computer engineering for 40
years. She still does not like them or really understand them. She does
understand bipolar disorder. Her mom suffered from it even before my wife
was born. Probably a hell of a lot better understanding than the play toy
of a pseudo shrink.


There's nothing that compares to right-wing ignorance.

Left wing ignorance.

There's no comparison. Remember the Democratic Senator who quizzed a
Navy Admiral about Guam flipping over?

Another dozen dead
 

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:03:45 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/19/13 11:56 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:02:15 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat union
guys Harry loves so much.

What does that have to do with how many whack jobs are in the military??

Just putting it perspective.



How would you know what the incidence of bipolar disorder might be among
organized construction workers?

By knowing lots of them.
One of the byproducts of my working class, no higher education,
proletariat life is I spent most of my life around the rank and file,
not the union leaders and business agents you sipped coffee with.

I also spent a lot of time around the trades here in Florida. The most
depressed are northern union types who moved here because there was no
work up there. Judy had a guy just recently (Michigan steelworker) who
she thought was most likely to show up and shoot everyone.
The club manager was afraid to fire him.

I've been in the construction industries all of my life, and that idea
that construction workers are more likely to be bi-polar than the
general population is pure horse****.

Another dozen dead
 

On 9/20/13 10:03 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:03:45 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/19/13 11:56 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:02:15 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat union
guys Harry loves so much.

What does that have to do with how many whack jobs are in the military??

Just putting it perspective.



How would you know what the incidence of bipolar disorder might be among
organized construction workers?

By knowing lots of them.
One of the byproducts of my working class, no higher education,
proletariat life is I spent most of my life around the rank and file,
not the union leaders and business agents you sipped coffee with.

I also spent a lot of time around the trades here in Florida. The most
depressed are northern union types who moved here because there was no
work up there. Judy had a guy just recently (Michigan steelworker) who
she thought was most likely to show up and shoot everyone.
The club manager was afraid to fire him.

I've been in the construction industries all of my life, and that idea
that construction workers are more likely to be bi-polar than the
general population is pure horse****.



The reality is that Greg has absolutely no idea what the incidence of
serious emotional/mental disorders might be among "hard hat union guys."
He's just trying to parlay his little bit of anecdotal info into a
universal truth. He does that a lot. :)

Another dozen dead
 

On 9/20/13 11:29 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 10:13:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/20/13 10:03 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:03:45 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/19/13 11:56 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:02:15 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat union
guys Harry loves so much.

What does that have to do with how many whack jobs are in the military??

Just putting it perspective.



How would you know what the incidence of bipolar disorder might be among
organized construction workers?

By knowing lots of them.
One of the byproducts of my working class, no higher education,
proletariat life is I spent most of my life around the rank and file,
not the union leaders and business agents you sipped coffee with.

I also spent a lot of time around the trades here in Florida. The most
depressed are northern union types who moved here because there was no
work up there. Judy had a guy just recently (Michigan steelworker) who
she thought was most likely to show up and shoot everyone.
The club manager was afraid to fire him.

I've been in the construction industries all of my life, and that idea
that construction workers are more likely to be bi-polar than the
general population is pure horse****.



The reality is that Greg has absolutely no idea what the incidence of
serious emotional/mental disorders might be among "hard hat union guys."
He's just trying to parlay his little bit of anecdotal info into a
universal truth. He does that a lot. :)

Let's go back and see what I originally said
"There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat union
guys"

Did I ever say there were a higher incidence Kevin?
Did I say it was a universal truth Harry?

If you guys lie about what I say, it is easy to say I am wrong.


Can you quantify "no shortage"?

Another dozen dead
 

On 9/20/13 1:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 11:39:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Let's go back and see what I originally said
"There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat union
guys"

Did I ever say there were a higher incidence Kevin?
Did I say it was a universal truth Harry?

If you guys lie about what I say, it is easy to say I am wrong.


Can you quantify "no shortage"?

There are plenty and they also tend to be gun owners.

About half the "anglo" trades on Judy's job sites had a gun in their
truck. The latinos not so much.


"Plenty" certainly quantifies it. :)

Another dozen dead
 

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 9/20/13 10:03 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 12:03:45 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 9/19/13 11:56 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:02:15 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

There is no shortage of bi-polar gun nuts among those hard hat
union
guys Harry loves so much.

What does that have to do with how many whack jobs are in the
military??

Just putting it perspective.



How would you know what the incidence of bipolar disorder might be
among
organized construction workers?

By knowing lots of them.
One of the byproducts of my working class, no higher education,
proletariat life is I spent most of my life around the rank and
file,
not the union leaders and business agents you sipped coffee with.

I also spent a lot of time around the trades here in Florida. The
most
depressed are northern union types who moved here because there was
no
work up there. Judy had a guy just recently (Michigan steelworker)
who
she thought was most likely to show up and shoot everyone.
The club manager was afraid to fire him.

I've been in the construction industries all of my life, and that
idea
that construction workers are more likely to be bi-polar than the
general population is pure horse****.



The reality is that Greg has absolutely no idea what the incidence of
serious emotional/mental disorders might be among "hard hat union
guys."
He's just trying to parlay his little bit of anecdotal info into a
universal truth. He does that a lot. :)

Anecdotal experiences often trump "surveys".

Another dozen dead
 

In article , says...

On Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:24:48 AM UTC-4, BAR wrote:
In article , says...



On 9/17/13 11:46 AM, wrote:

On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 11:08:44 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 9/17/13 11:05 AM, wrote:

On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 01:35:36 -0700, jps wrote:





Good thing Virginia has plenty of AR-15s for ready sale.



There was no AR 15 there.

It was just a runaway media that does not believe a person can do

anything bad without an assault weapon.



NBC was even using a graphic of a M-16 that had the M203 grenade

launcher under it.



He had a Joe Biden shotgun and they believe the 2 pistols he had were

taken from cops on site.





A shotgun he apparently bought in Virginia a short time ago, because,

even though he apparently was mentally ill, that didn't prevent him from

buying a firearm.



It does not appear that he was under any kind of treatment and

certainly not under court ordered treatment, the only thing that would

"pop" on a background check.



More interesting was how he got a "secret" security clearance.







About 5 million people have a "secret" security clearance.



Most of them don't need those clearances.

I had a secret clearance for about 5 years. Our company was a subcontractor that provided equipment to the military through a large, well known company. When we got out of that market, we were debriefed and "turned in" our clearances.

It didn't mean much, anyway. It got us into the buildings when our stuff was being installed and commissioned, but when something was going on in the area we were working, we were still asked to leave at times. Even if the other activity wasn't above our clearance level, everything is on a "need to know" basis. If you don't need to know, you leave.

Been there done that. Faced the wall a couple of times with someone behind me ensuring that I
didn't turn my head. We were very careful about bringing in replacement parts to some
locaitons because once somehting with a memory was brought it only exited inside a locked
burn bag and you never saw it again.