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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:22:25 AM UTC-5, Hank© wrote:
On 9/13/2013 7:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote: Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. For every statement, poll, or study, there's always an opposing view, Harry.. You should know that... Not only that, studies usually turn out the way the sponsor wants. Oh yes... |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote: Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. Japan has great gun control, and also the highest rate of suicide. Just different tools to death. Basically we have societal breakdown in some of our cities. Why? 250 murders already in Chicago, 100 in Oakland. How many prosecutions? How many arrested? Look at the uproar over Zimmerman, vs. nothing said about the massive black on black killing. Most of the killing is caused by drug wars. Maybe we ought to look at our drug laws, as well as the welfare rules, that create these death societies. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:44:26 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. For every statement, poll, or study, there's always an opposing view, Harry. You should know that... And some of those "studies" are based on pure bull****. This is an academic study with no agenda nor benefactor, unlike the NRA's "studies" or gun manufacturer funded "studies." |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:28:17 AM UTC-4, jps wrote:
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Yet Chicago, with its tough gun laws, has a high rate. "Even supporters of the city's gun laws admit they don't address the social problems behind the shootings that continue to plague Chicago—400 so far this year. "You can try to legislate morality but it's really not something you can do," says Jason Ervin, alderman of the 28th Ward, a stretch of Chicago's west side battered by crime and disinvestment." So guns aren't really the problem, eh? Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. You don't have the credentials to make the statements above. After all, you think that people with an academic background magically don't have an agenda when writing a report. How naïve is that? |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:29:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" nowayalso.jose.com
wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. ------------------------- Let's see. The title of your post was, "Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide". This dimwit is simply saying that at a national level: a. Gun manufacturing has been up for the past 5 years (indicating strong demand). b. Permit applications have been at record levels (both new applications and renewals). c. Nationally, gun related gun homicides have been declining. I'll leave it to you academic geniuses to study and determine the correlation. The percentage of population owning guns is going down. Has been for decades. If your assumptions are right, then more guns are being purchased by those who aleady own guns, so the NRA and Fox News are doing their jobs well. Areas in which gun ownership is higher experience more gun related deaths. That's the conclusion of the study. Can you separate those thoughts long enough for them to each make sense? If you can run a slide rule, you can surely figure this out. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:28:17 AM UTC-4, jps wrote: On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Yet Chicago, with its tough gun laws, has a high rate. "Even supporters of the city's gun laws admit they don't address the social problems behind the shootings that continue to plague Chicago—400 so far this year. "You can try to legislate morality but it's really not something you can do," says Jason Ervin, alderman of the 28th Ward, a stretch of Chicago's west side battered by crime and disinvestment." So guns aren't really the problem, eh? Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. You don't have the credentials to make the statements above. After all, you think that people with an academic background magically don't have an agenda when writing a report. How naïve is that? It's not naive. The numbers are the numbers. You just don't want to face facts. Doesn't have anything to do with laws, just density of ownership (yes, double entendre). |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
"jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:29:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" nowayalso.jose.com wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. ------------------------- Let's see. The title of your post was, "Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide". This dimwit is simply saying that at a national level: a. Gun manufacturing has been up for the past 5 years (indicating strong demand). b. Permit applications have been at record levels (both new applications and renewals). c. Nationally, gun related gun homicides have been declining. I'll leave it to you academic geniuses to study and determine the correlation. The percentage of population owning guns is going down. Has been for decades. If your assumptions are right, then more guns are being purchased by those who aleady own guns, so the NRA and Fox News are doing their jobs well. Areas in which gun ownership is higher experience more gun related deaths. That's the conclusion of the study. Can you separate those thoughts long enough for them to each make sense? If you can run a slide rule, you can surely figure this out. -------------------------- First, there's no need for your snarky comments. Other than telephone surveys, there's no possible way to determine if gun ownership is going up or down because there's no national registry of who owns what. You have to believe that if a stranger calls you up and asks if you have a gun, that everyone will answer honestly. My answer would be, "None of your business". Manufacturing production numbers (yes, and even the resultant company stock prices) represent a real indicator of guns being sold. Agreed, many are split between current owners and new owners but again, those numbers aren't readily available. However, add in the record number of permit applications, again split between new applicants and renewals, a logical conclusion is that gun ownership is going up, despite what random, limited and likely biased surveys say. If ownership was declining, so would both new permit and renewal applications. That has not been the case. Where required, the permit issuing agencies have been swamped. In MA, a new permit application typically took 6 weeks to process years ago. They are now taking as much as 6 months due to the backlog. |
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