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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association’s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable — the percentage of a state’s suicides committed with a firearm — that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. “In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown … many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths,” said Siegel in a statement. “This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides,” he said. “It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates.” The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote:
Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote: Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote: Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. For every statement, poll, or study, there's always an opposing view, Harry.. You should know that... |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. Cook County/ Chicago IL. has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, yet one of, if not the highest gun/murder rates in the nation as well. so.... |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote: Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. For every statement, poll, or study, there's always an opposing view, Harry. You should know that... ------------------------------- Hard statistics have value but some of these gun issue polls are really questionable. The University of Chicago does a poll every two years trying to get an idea of overall gun ownership numbers. They call something like 2000 people and ask, "Do you own a firearm". Who, in their right mind, is going to answer someone asking a question like that based on a telephone call from an unknown "pollster", and if they do, how reliable are their answers? Without a national gun registry the only way to estimate the growth or decline of gun ownership is to look at the manufacturer's production numbers. Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On 9/13/2013 7:44 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote: Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. For every statement, poll, or study, there's always an opposing view, Harry.. You should know that... Not only that, studyies usually turn out the way the sponsor wants. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:11:26 -0400, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. Cook County/ Chicago IL. has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, yet one of, if not the highest gun/murder rates in the nation as well. so.... Therefore gun control results in more murders. They're relaxing some of their gun control. Maybe the homicide rate will go down now. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:22:25 AM UTC-5, Hank© wrote:
On 9/13/2013 7:44 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote: Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. For every statement, poll, or study, there's always an opposing view, Harry.. You should know that... Not only that, studies usually turn out the way the sponsor wants. Oh yes... |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote: Researchers in the United States claim to have established a convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide, according to a new study. The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health, challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence. Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent. In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous research. The study, led by Boston University community health sciences professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December 2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said Siegel in a statement. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates. The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national average of 57.7 percent. The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an average for all states of four per 100,000. The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010. Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much higher murder rates than nations that allow guns." http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/ That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. Japan has great gun control, and also the highest rate of suicide. Just different tools to death. Basically we have societal breakdown in some of our cities. Why? 250 murders already in Chicago, 100 in Oakland. How many prosecutions? How many arrested? Look at the uproar over Zimmerman, vs. nothing said about the massive black on black killing. Most of the killing is caused by drug wars. Maybe we ought to look at our drug laws, as well as the welfare rules, that create these death societies. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:44:26 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world. For every statement, poll, or study, there's always an opposing view, Harry. You should know that... And some of those "studies" are based on pure bull****. This is an academic study with no agenda nor benefactor, unlike the NRA's "studies" or gun manufacturer funded "studies." |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:28:17 AM UTC-4, jps wrote:
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Yet Chicago, with its tough gun laws, has a high rate. "Even supporters of the city's gun laws admit they don't address the social problems behind the shootings that continue to plague Chicago—400 so far this year. "You can try to legislate morality but it's really not something you can do," says Jason Ervin, alderman of the 28th Ward, a stretch of Chicago's west side battered by crime and disinvestment." So guns aren't really the problem, eh? Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. You don't have the credentials to make the statements above. After all, you think that people with an academic background magically don't have an agenda when writing a report. How naïve is that? |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:29:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" nowayalso.jose.com
wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. ------------------------- Let's see. The title of your post was, "Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide". This dimwit is simply saying that at a national level: a. Gun manufacturing has been up for the past 5 years (indicating strong demand). b. Permit applications have been at record levels (both new applications and renewals). c. Nationally, gun related gun homicides have been declining. I'll leave it to you academic geniuses to study and determine the correlation. The percentage of population owning guns is going down. Has been for decades. If your assumptions are right, then more guns are being purchased by those who aleady own guns, so the NRA and Fox News are doing their jobs well. Areas in which gun ownership is higher experience more gun related deaths. That's the conclusion of the study. Can you separate those thoughts long enough for them to each make sense? If you can run a slide rule, you can surely figure this out. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 4:28:17 AM UTC-4, jps wrote: On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Yet Chicago, with its tough gun laws, has a high rate. "Even supporters of the city's gun laws admit they don't address the social problems behind the shootings that continue to plague Chicago—400 so far this year. "You can try to legislate morality but it's really not something you can do," says Jason Ervin, alderman of the 28th Ward, a stretch of Chicago's west side battered by crime and disinvestment." So guns aren't really the problem, eh? Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. You don't have the credentials to make the statements above. After all, you think that people with an academic background magically don't have an agenda when writing a report. How naïve is that? It's not naive. The numbers are the numbers. You just don't want to face facts. Doesn't have anything to do with laws, just density of ownership (yes, double entendre). |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
"jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:29:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" nowayalso.jose.com wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. ------------------------- Let's see. The title of your post was, "Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide". This dimwit is simply saying that at a national level: a. Gun manufacturing has been up for the past 5 years (indicating strong demand). b. Permit applications have been at record levels (both new applications and renewals). c. Nationally, gun related gun homicides have been declining. I'll leave it to you academic geniuses to study and determine the correlation. The percentage of population owning guns is going down. Has been for decades. If your assumptions are right, then more guns are being purchased by those who aleady own guns, so the NRA and Fox News are doing their jobs well. Areas in which gun ownership is higher experience more gun related deaths. That's the conclusion of the study. Can you separate those thoughts long enough for them to each make sense? If you can run a slide rule, you can surely figure this out. -------------------------- First, there's no need for your snarky comments. Other than telephone surveys, there's no possible way to determine if gun ownership is going up or down because there's no national registry of who owns what. You have to believe that if a stranger calls you up and asks if you have a gun, that everyone will answer honestly. My answer would be, "None of your business". Manufacturing production numbers (yes, and even the resultant company stock prices) represent a real indicator of guns being sold. Agreed, many are split between current owners and new owners but again, those numbers aren't readily available. However, add in the record number of permit applications, again split between new applicants and renewals, a logical conclusion is that gun ownership is going up, despite what random, limited and likely biased surveys say. If ownership was declining, so would both new permit and renewal applications. That has not been the case. Where required, the permit issuing agencies have been swamped. In MA, a new permit application typically took 6 weeks to process years ago. They are now taking as much as 6 months due to the backlog. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
jps wrote:
On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. Then why are you commenting? You do not have the CV that shows you are not a dimwit, Rs: gun ownership. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:20:43 PM UTC-4, jps wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:59:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote: You don't have the credentials to make the statements above. After all, you think that people with an academic background magically don't have an agenda when writing a report. How na�ve is that? It's not naive. The numbers are the numbers. You just don't want to face facts. There's absolutely no proof, and very little chance, that the "numbers" in this case are based on reality. As others point out, getting factual data on gun ownership is impossible. Doesn't have anything to do with laws, just density of ownership (yes, double entendre). Clever, but you point out that homicide rate has nothing to do with law. So what's the point of outlawing guns? If someone wants to own one and kill with it, they will regardless of any existing or new law. Besides, I'll wager that the area I live in has as high or an even higher density of gun ownership than Chicago (gun lovin southerners), but far fewer deaths per capita than same. As the alderman I quoted earlier pointed out, it's not the guns, it's "morality", and that can't be legislated. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
In article , "Mr.
Luddite" says... Other than telephone surveys, there's no possible way to determine if gun ownership is going up or down because there's no national registry of who owns what. You have to believe that if a stranger calls you up and asks if you have a gun, that everyone will answer honestly. My answer would be, "None of your business". Manufacturing production numbers (yes, and even the resultant company stock prices) represent a real indicator of guns being sold. Agreed, many are split between current owners and new owners but again, those numbers aren't readily available. However, add in the record number of permit applications, again split between new applicants and renewals, a logical conclusion is that gun ownership is going up, despite what random, limited and likely biased surveys say. If ownership was declining, so would both new permit and renewal applications. That has not been the case. Where required, the permit issuing agencies have been swamped. In MA, a new permit application typically took 6 weeks to process years ago. They are now taking as much as 6 months due to the backlog. I don't have any answers, just suspicions about gun ownership. Here's something from a Boston paper. http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2...-toughest-gun- control-law-made-massachusetts-less- safe/3845k7xHzkwTrBWy4KpkEM/story.html I don't know anything about this guy. Sounds like a typical gun nut. Everybody knows that nobody knows the number of illegal guns. But he says Mass knows how many legal gun are owned. ?There were nearly 1.5 million active gun licenses in Massachusetts in 1998,? the AP reported. ?In June [2002], that number was down to just 200,000.? He contradicts you, and jps. The current figure for legal guns in Mass should be known. But maybe the NRA got a Fed secrecy act passed so now nobody can get that info. I don't believe anything I read about gun ownership. From the guy above, you, jps, or anybody else. Because the NRA has made it impossible to get good statistics. They are slime. Not because guns are inherently bad, but because the NRA are money-grubbing low-lifes who seek to hide the truth. Personally, I think most gun purchases are made by people who already own a gun, and want more guns. Gun nuts. Criminals get most of their guns from gun nuts. A much smaller percentage of gun purchases are made by responsible people - for specific sport use or genuine self-defense concerns. Criminals also get some of their guns. With the "general public," I think guns are more and more looked upon as - excuse the analogy, but it works - cigarettes. They are found to be increasingly unacceptable. Like cigarettes, guns won't go away, but will be more highly taxed, regulated, and suppressed. And it will make a difference in innocent deaths. But the NRA will do all they can to keep that from happening. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
"Boating All Out" wrote in message ... In article , "Mr. Luddite" says... Other than telephone surveys, there's no possible way to determine if gun ownership is going up or down because there's no national registry of who owns what. You have to believe that if a stranger calls you up and asks if you have a gun, that everyone will answer honestly. My answer would be, "None of your business". Manufacturing production numbers (yes, and even the resultant company stock prices) represent a real indicator of guns being sold. Agreed, many are split between current owners and new owners but again, those numbers aren't readily available. However, add in the record number of permit applications, again split between new applicants and renewals, a logical conclusion is that gun ownership is going up, despite what random, limited and likely biased surveys say. If ownership was declining, so would both new permit and renewal applications. That has not been the case. Where required, the permit issuing agencies have been swamped. In MA, a new permit application typically took 6 weeks to process years ago. They are now taking as much as 6 months due to the backlog. I don't have any answers, just suspicions about gun ownership. Here's something from a Boston paper. http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2...-toughest-gun- control-law-made-massachusetts-less- safe/3845k7xHzkwTrBWy4KpkEM/story.html I don't know anything about this guy. Sounds like a typical gun nut. Everybody knows that nobody knows the number of illegal guns. But he says Mass knows how many legal gun are owned. ?There were nearly 1.5 million active gun licenses in Massachusetts in 1998,? the AP reported. ?In June [2002], that number was down to just 200,000.? He contradicts you, and jps. The current figure for legal guns in Mass should be known. But maybe the NRA got a Fed secrecy act passed so now nobody can get that info. I don't believe anything I read about gun ownership. From the guy above, you, jps, or anybody else. Because the NRA has made it impossible to get good statistics. They are slime. Not because guns are inherently bad, but because the NRA are money-grubbing low-lifes who seek to hide the truth. Personally, I think most gun purchases are made by people who already own a gun, and want more guns. Gun nuts. Criminals get most of their guns from gun nuts. A much smaller percentage of gun purchases are made by responsible people - for specific sport use or genuine self-defense concerns. Criminals also get some of their guns. With the "general public," I think guns are more and more looked upon as - excuse the analogy, but it works - cigarettes. They are found to be increasingly unacceptable. Like cigarettes, guns won't go away, but will be more highly taxed, regulated, and suppressed. And it will make a difference in innocent deaths. But the NRA will do all they can to keep that from happening. ---------------------------- I don't know how many permits applications are being made statewide. Neither do you, JPS or the guy who wrote the article in your link. Point is, permit applications are *up* statewide not "down". Here's a link to the approximate numbers in one small area. Note that this is for one of several types of permits, namely the Class "A" permit: http://www.patriotledger.com/answerbook/braintree/x760605076/More-people-getting-gun-permits-across-South-Shore |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
In article , says...
On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 07:29:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" nowayalso.jose.com wrote: "jps" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 08:06:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, September 13, 2013 8:20:09 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Some, like S&W have been at full capacity for the past 5 years, indicating a strong demand for their products. Additionally, new applications for permits have been at record levels. Despite this, gun related homicides nationally are declining. Which would seem to disprove the title of this thread, and the supposed statistical link claimed by the study. Some dimwits aren't smart enough to realize that these two ideas are not at odds with one another. You can have both a declining homocide rate and a higher rate of homicide in regions with higher gun ownership. Some people have the academic credentials and investment into the subject matter to make claims and some people do not. Why don't you dimwits leave the thinking to those with brains enough to do so. ------------------------- Let's see. The title of your post was, "Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide". This dimwit is simply saying that at a national level: a. Gun manufacturing has been up for the past 5 years (indicating strong demand). b. Permit applications have been at record levels (both new applications and renewals). c. Nationally, gun related gun homicides have been declining. I'll leave it to you academic geniuses to study and determine the correlation. The percentage of population owning guns is going down. Has been for decades. If your assumptions are right, then more guns are being purchased by those who aleady own guns, so the NRA and Fox News are doing their jobs well. Areas in which gun ownership is higher experience more gun related deaths. That's the conclusion of the study. Can you separate those thoughts long enough for them to each make sense? If you can run a slide rule, you can surely figure this out. Do you have data to backup your position that gun ownership is declining? What is a gun related death? Is it anything like a beer related death? |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
In article ,
says... In article , "Mr. Luddite" says... Other than telephone surveys, there's no possible way to determine if gun ownership is going up or down because there's no national registry of who owns what. You have to believe that if a stranger calls you up and asks if you have a gun, that everyone will answer honestly. My answer would be, "None of your business". Manufacturing production numbers (yes, and even the resultant company stock prices) represent a real indicator of guns being sold. Agreed, many are split between current owners and new owners but again, those numbers aren't readily available. However, add in the record number of permit applications, again split between new applicants and renewals, a logical conclusion is that gun ownership is going up, despite what random, limited and likely biased surveys say. If ownership was declining, so would both new permit and renewal applications. That has not been the case. Where required, the permit issuing agencies have been swamped. In MA, a new permit application typically took 6 weeks to process years ago. They are now taking as much as 6 months due to the backlog. I don't have any answers, just suspicions about gun ownership. Here's something from a Boston paper. http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2...-toughest-gun- control-law-made-massachusetts-less- safe/3845k7xHzkwTrBWy4KpkEM/story.html I don't know anything about this guy. Sounds like a typical gun nut. Everybody knows that nobody knows the number of illegal guns. But he says Mass knows how many legal gun are owned. ?There were nearly 1.5 million active gun licenses in Massachusetts in 1998,? the AP reported. ?In June [2002], that number was down to just 200,000.? He contradicts you, and jps. The current figure for legal guns in Mass should be known. But maybe the NRA got a Fed secrecy act passed so now nobody can get that info. I don't believe anything I read about gun ownership. From the guy above, you, jps, or anybody else. Because the NRA has made it impossible to get good statistics. They are slime. Not because guns are inherently bad, but because the NRA are money-grubbing low-lifes who seek to hide the truth. Personally, I think most gun purchases are made by people who already own a gun, and want more guns. Gun nuts. Criminals get most of their guns from gun nuts. A much smaller percentage of gun purchases are made by responsible people - for specific sport use or genuine self-defense concerns. Criminals also get some of their guns. With the "general public," I think guns are more and more looked upon as - excuse the analogy, but it works - cigarettes. They are found to be increasingly unacceptable. Like cigarettes, guns won't go away, but will be more highly taxed, regulated, and suppressed. And it will make a difference in innocent deaths. But the NRA will do all they can to keep that from happening. What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Wednesday, 18 September 2013 11:58:31 UTC-3, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 07:39:15 -0400, BAR wrote: What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? Car nuts kill moire people I'd say 'car nuts' are sociable people...gun nuts, not so much. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 08:14:16 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 September 2013 11:58:31 UTC-3, wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 07:39:15 -0400, BAR wrote: What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? Car nuts kill moire people I'd say 'car nuts' are sociable people...gun nuts, not so much. One of your best buddies is a gun nut. What are you talking about? There are some gun nuts here who've tried repeatedly to be sociable with you, only to be rebuffed. -- John H. Hope you're having a great day! |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says... On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 07:39:15 -0400, BAR wrote: What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? Car nuts kill moire people More gun nuts kill on purpose than car nuts kill on purpose. May not be much difference. Been a lot of car suicides. Taking out other families while at it. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
In article 81701437401217710.344716bmckeenospam-
, says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 07:39:15 -0400, BAR wrote: What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? Car nuts kill moire people More gun nuts kill on purpose than car nuts kill on purpose. May not be much difference. Been a lot of car suicides. Taking out other families while at it. Wait..... Are you REALLY trying to say that more people kill on purpose with cars than with guns???? Really? |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
iBoaterer wrote:
In article 81701437401217710.344716bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 07:39:15 -0400, BAR wrote: What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? Car nuts kill moire people More gun nuts kill on purpose than car nuts kill on purpose. May not be much difference. Been a lot of car suicides. Taking out other families while at it. Wait..... Are you REALLY trying to say that more people kill on purpose with cars than with guns???? Really? Probably not as many, but a significant number are killed in vehicle suicide. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On 9/18/13 3:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
iBoaterer wrote: In article 81701437401217710.344716bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 07:39:15 -0400, BAR wrote: What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? Car nuts kill moire people More gun nuts kill on purpose than car nuts kill on purpose. May not be much difference. Been a lot of car suicides. Taking out other families while at it. Wait..... Are you REALLY trying to say that more people kill on purpose with cars than with guns???? Really? Probably not as many, but a significant number are killed in vehicle suicide. What might that "significant" number be, expressed as a percentage of those killed in vehicular accidents? |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
In article 959440288401226464.848973bmckeenospam-
, says... iBoaterer wrote: In article 81701437401217710.344716bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 07:39:15 -0400, BAR wrote: What is the difference between a car nut and a gun nut? Car nuts kill moire people More gun nuts kill on purpose than car nuts kill on purpose. May not be much difference. Been a lot of car suicides. Taking out other families while at it. Wait..... Are you REALLY trying to say that more people kill on purpose with cars than with guns???? Really? Probably not as many, but a significant number are killed in vehicle suicide. What is a "significant number" of purposeful car deaths? THEN, compare that to the purposeful amount of gun deaths. The answer won't shock many, but it apparently will shock you! |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:15:03 PM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... With the "general public," I think guns are more and more looked upon as - excuse the analogy, but it works - cigarettes. They are found to be increasingly unacceptable. Like cigarettes, guns won't go away, but will be more highly taxed, regulated, and suppressed. And it will make a difference in innocent deaths. But the NRA will do all they can to keep that from happening. I hear Starbucks suggested that patrons leave their guns outside. Waiting for NRA reaction. Probably have gun nuts boycott Starbucks, just like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton would do for their "causes." Maybe write nasty letters to Starbucks too. Maybe even hold a shoot-in. Anyway, I'm feeling a little bit psychic. Just a little. SC has concealed carry, and businesses can chose to post signs banning concealed carry inside the business. Many have, and there has been no backlash from the NRA against any of those that I'm aware of. Maybe your "feeling" is that bad taco you had today for lunch. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
In article ,
says... On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:15:03 PM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... With the "general public," I think guns are more and more looked upon as - excuse the analogy, but it works - cigarettes. They are found to be increasingly unacceptable. Like cigarettes, guns won't go away, but will be more highly taxed, regulated, and suppressed. And it will make a difference in innocent deaths. But the NRA will do all they can to keep that from happening. I hear Starbucks suggested that patrons leave their guns outside. Waiting for NRA reaction. Probably have gun nuts boycott Starbucks, just like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton would do for their "causes." Maybe write nasty letters to Starbucks too. Maybe even hold a shoot-in. Anyway, I'm feeling a little bit psychic. Just a little. SC has concealed carry, and businesses can chose to post signs banning concealed carry inside the business. Many have, and there has been no backlash from the NRA against any of those that I'm aware of. Maybe your "feeling" is that bad taco you had today for lunch. Even worse. I had Walmart pizza for lunch. Didn't know that many businesses bar firearms in SC. Now it's Starbucks, but they're only "suggesting" you keep your firearms at home. Though I don't go to Starbucks, I understand they're a big outfit. Their "suggesting" reminds me of how it went with cigarettes. Started with something like "We appreciate if you don't smoke here." We'll see if the NRA responds. Maybe they figure they should keep their traps shut on this one. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:31:53 -0500, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:15:03 PM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... With the "general public," I think guns are more and more looked upon as - excuse the analogy, but it works - cigarettes. They are found to be increasingly unacceptable. Like cigarettes, guns won't go away, but will be more highly taxed, regulated, and suppressed. And it will make a difference in innocent deaths. But the NRA will do all they can to keep that from happening. I hear Starbucks suggested that patrons leave their guns outside. Waiting for NRA reaction. Probably have gun nuts boycott Starbucks, just like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton would do for their "causes." Maybe write nasty letters to Starbucks too. Maybe even hold a shoot-in. Anyway, I'm feeling a little bit psychic. Just a little. SC has concealed carry, and businesses can chose to post signs banning concealed carry inside the business. Many have, and there has been no backlash from the NRA against any of those that I'm aware of. Maybe your "feeling" is that bad taco you had today for lunch. Even worse. I had Walmart pizza for lunch. Didn't know that many businesses bar firearms in SC. Now it's Starbucks, but they're only "suggesting" you keep your firearms at home. Though I don't go to Starbucks, I understand they're a big outfit. Their "suggesting" reminds me of how it went with cigarettes. Started with something like "We appreciate if you don't smoke here." We'll see if the NRA responds. Maybe they figure they should keep their traps shut on this one. Perhaps the NRA doesn't give a **** one way or the other. -- John H. Hope you're having a great day! |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
On 9/18/13 5:31 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:15:03 PM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... With the "general public," I think guns are more and more looked upon as - excuse the analogy, but it works - cigarettes. They are found to be increasingly unacceptable. Like cigarettes, guns won't go away, but will be more highly taxed, regulated, and suppressed. And it will make a difference in innocent deaths. But the NRA will do all they can to keep that from happening. I hear Starbucks suggested that patrons leave their guns outside. Waiting for NRA reaction. Probably have gun nuts boycott Starbucks, just like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton would do for their "causes." Maybe write nasty letters to Starbucks too. Maybe even hold a shoot-in. Anyway, I'm feeling a little bit psychic. Just a little. SC has concealed carry, and businesses can chose to post signs banning concealed carry inside the business. Many have, and there has been no backlash from the NRA against any of those that I'm aware of. Maybe your "feeling" is that bad taco you had today for lunch. Even worse. I had Walmart pizza for lunch. Didn't know that many businesses bar firearms in SC. Now it's Starbucks, but they're only "suggesting" you keep your firearms at home. Though I don't go to Starbucks, I understand they're a big outfit. Their "suggesting" reminds me of how it went with cigarettes. Started with something like "We appreciate if you don't smoke here." We'll see if the NRA responds. Maybe they figure they should keep their traps shut on this one. Maybe Starbucks wants to try to avoid a massacre like that one the gun nut committed in Seattle a few years ago at Cafe Racer. |
Higher gun ownership equals higher rate of homicide
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