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X ` Man[_3_]

On 6/18/12 7:31 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:49:33 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/18/12 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:30:58 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On the other hand, I know plenty of liberal arts grads who are pulling
down six figure incomes at jobs with pretty decent benefits, and who
weren't trained by the navy.

Doing what?

Do you even know what "the liberal arts" are?

yes

I have friends who are professors at several local universities who are
earning six figure salaries, and they are all liberal arts grads.

My daughter's father in law would be surprised at that.e retired as a
history professor at a state university and he never made that much
money. He says his wife made more money some years as an ER nurse but
he admits she worked a lot harder than him.

He insisted that all his kids get degrees in science or engineering.

Most of my advertising, PR and marketing colleagues earn substantial six
figure salaries and bonuses.

That sounds right if they can sell but if you can sell you don't need
a degree.

There are many scientists at the NIH and other health and science
related agencies that earn in the six figures.

Those are science degrees aren't they? BYW are they government
employees? What grade? A 6 figure GS salary is rare.

We know at least a dozen psychotherapists who earn more than $100,000 a
year.

MDs OK

The highest salaried guy I know as a close friend, a recent retiree,
earned more than $500,000 a year at his job. He's a lit and history grad
of the University of Notre Dame.

Again doing what?

I know dozens and dozens of liberal arts grads earning well over
$100,000 a year. As far as I know, none were trained by the Navy.

I didn't say the navy was the only place you could get knowledge, just
that it was a good place to get it in a hurry.

18 weeks of a 8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time.

When you toss out the fluff courses kids pad out their schedule with
that is plenty of time.

I had closer to 10,000 hours of education at IBM and I have hundreds
of hours for my inspector license. I am not afraid of learning. I like
it. I just want to go at a faster pace.

GS 14s and 15s pay over $100,000 and in many markets, like this one,
there's a locality adjustment. Around here, it is about 25%. These
rankings are not rare around here. There are also federal jobs that are
off the GS chart and pay more.

We have some elite universities around here. Full professors can earn in
the mid $150,000 range.

Science degrees can fall under the "purview" of liberal arts.

This sounds like "rote learning and memorization" to me: "18 weeks of a
8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time." Not much time to think about what you are
learning and contemplating possibilities.

My retired friend ran a large and successful NGO.

Back in the day, I was a consultant to a labor union and for five years
I marketed its health plan to federal and postal workers. That means I
wrote and placed a lot of advertising, hired and trained people to
answer phones during open season, et cetera. When I started, the plan
had 20,000 enrollees. Four years later, it had nearly 600,000. What
changed? The marketing. My contact called for a reasonable monthly
fee...this was in the late 1970's and it was about $4,000 a month, plus
I got $1 for each new enrollee each year. You can do the math. And I'm
just an English major.

X ` Man

On 6/18/12 9:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:48:22 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

This sounds like "rote learning and memorization" to me: "18 weeks of a
8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time." Not much time to think about what you are
learning and contemplating possibilities.

This was a little different than the set it and forget it education
you get in regular schools. We lived this stuff. I had a side gig
tutoring a couple of the E5s that were in a rate change and
struggling. I wasn't paid but I got good duty.
Those boys were scared because the penalty for failing was a lot worse
for them. I spent a couple hours a night going over the day with
them.. They got me into Cappy's White Horse tavern for a beer after.
I also did not have to get up in the morning for jumping jacks.

The "set it and forget it education you get in regular schools"? Sorry,
I missed out on attending those sorts of schools. I remember a lot of
what I was taught in high school and most of what was covered in my
classes in college, and all my life I've built on that knowledge base.

I even remember funny incidents from classes. One of my electives in
college was German and the associate professor teaching it was a
native-born German whose ideas about World War II were really strange.
He wasn't a ex-Nazi, but he sure was intent on blaming every nation
*except* Germany for that war. He was an excellent teacher, though, and
just the sort of guy you'd want to have beers with on Fridays after the
last classes of the week.

One of the toughest courses I took as an undergrad, one that required a
lot of memorization, was "Shakespeare Rapid Reading." It was an upper
level class and by the time we got to it, most of the students had
already read virtually all of the plays, and simply had to reread them
and prepare an essay on each, which was no big deal for a bunch of
English majors, but the exams every other week were a real bitch. All
those plays, all those characters, all those plot twists, all those
recurring themes...it was like playing chess with a grand master. The
class was taught in one of the oldest buildings on campus, a large
structure built shortly after the Civil War. The steam pipe heating
system really cranked on those cold winter mornings, and many of us
wondered if they would explode and kill us all before we finished the
"required" class, or, if we survived, whether we'd have to repeat the
class in another building.

Oscar

On 6/19/2012 6:47 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/18/12 9:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:48:22 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

This sounds like "rote learning and memorization" to me: "18 weeks of a
8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time." Not much time to think about what you are
learning and contemplating possibilities.

This was a little different than the set it and forget it education
you get in regular schools. We lived this stuff. I had a side gig
tutoring a couple of the E5s that were in a rate change and
struggling. I wasn't paid but I got good duty.
Those boys were scared because the penalty for failing was a lot worse
for them. I spent a couple hours a night going over the day with
them.. They got me into Cappy's White Horse tavern for a beer after.
I also did not have to get up in the morning for jumping jacks.

The "set it and forget it education you get in regular schools"? Sorry,
I missed out on attending those sorts of schools. I remember a lot of
what I was taught in high school and most of what was covered in my
classes in college, and all my life I've built on that knowledge base.

I even remember funny incidents from classes. One of my electives in
college was German and the associate professor teaching it was a
native-born German whose ideas about World War II were really strange.
He wasn't a ex-Nazi, but he sure was intent on blaming every nation
*except* Germany for that war. He was an excellent teacher, though, and
just the sort of guy you'd want to have beers with on Fridays after the
last classes of the week.

One of the toughest courses I took as an undergrad, one that required a
lot of memorization, was "Shakespeare Rapid Reading." It was an upper
level class and by the time we got to it, most of the students had
already read virtually all of the plays, and simply had to reread them
and prepare an essay on each, which was no big deal for a bunch of
English majors, but the exams every other week were a real bitch. All
those plays, all those characters, all those plot twists, all those
recurring themes...it was like playing chess with a grand master. The
class was taught in one of the oldest buildings on campus, a large
structure built shortly after the Civil War. The steam pipe heating
system really cranked on those cold winter mornings, and many of us
wondered if they would explode and kill us all before we finished the
"required" class, or, if we survived, whether we'd have to repeat the
class in another building.

Funny how your short term memory fails and your long term memory is
sharp as a tack, when you get old.

X ` Man[_3_]

On 6/19/12 11:52 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 06:47:23 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/18/12 9:48 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 19:48:22 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

This sounds like "rote learning and memorization" to me: "18 weeks of a
8 hour a day school is equal to about 48 credit hours of
college in classroom time." Not much time to think about what you are
learning and contemplating possibilities.

This was a little different than the set it and forget it education
you get in regular schools. We lived this stuff. I had a side gig
tutoring a couple of the E5s that were in a rate change and
struggling. I wasn't paid but I got good duty.
Those boys were scared because the penalty for failing was a lot worse
for them. I spent a couple hours a night going over the day with
them.. They got me into Cappy's White Horse tavern for a beer after.
I also did not have to get up in the morning for jumping jacks.

The "set it and forget it education you get in regular schools"? Sorry,
I missed out on attending those sorts of schools. I remember a lot of
what I was taught in high school and most of what was covered in my
classes in college, and all my life I've built on that knowledge base.

The public schools I attended (DC and PG county) were not that great
but still better than they are today.
In Florida, when less than half the kids passed the FCAT, they simply
regraded the tests to a lower standard.
This is after 3 years of teachers complaining that they were only
"teaching the test"

The
class was taught in one of the oldest buildings on campus, a large
structure built shortly after the Civil War. The steam pipe heating
system really cranked on those cold winter mornings, and many of us
wondered if they would explode and kill us all before we finished the
"required" class, or, if we survived, whether we'd have to repeat the
class in another building.

We had steam radiator heat in my high school too. They were hissing
and banging all day.

I blame parents more than any other factor for the poor performance of
their kids in school.

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