On 6/19/12 12:16 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 6/19/2012 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss
this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is
officiallydiscouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I
polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities...
without anexception, they say that they are officially not allowed
to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can,
and has,led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to
discuss this with is their direct leader and HR. They know their
direct report'ssalaries, of course, as they are involved with
reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.

That was certainly true at IBM and Centex where my wife worked.

I do understand why when it is a merit based pay system. The good guys
make a whole lot more than the marginal guys.

it's the way it is everywhere. harry is just trying desperately to cover
for yet another lie...

JustSnot is speaking from his years of executive experience as a
warehouse worker for a supermarket chain.

On 6/19/2012 12:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/19/12 12:16 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 6/19/2012 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss
this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is
officiallydiscouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I
polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities...
without anexception, they say that they are officially not allowed
to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can,
and has,led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to
discuss this with is their direct leader and HR. They know their
direct report'ssalaries, of course, as they are involved with
reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.

That was certainly true at IBM and Centex where my wife worked.

I do understand why when it is a merit based pay system. The good guys
make a whole lot more than the marginal guys.

it's the way it is everywhere. harry is just trying desperately to cover
for yet another lie...

JustSnot is speaking from his years of executive experience as a
warehouse worker for a supermarket chain.


Even a warehouse worker could easily identify Harry Krause as a liar.

On 6/19/12 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:16:57 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 6/19/2012 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is officiallydiscouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities... without anexception, they say that they are officially not allowed to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can, and has,led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to discuss this with is their direct leader and HR. They know their direct report'ssalaries, of course, as they are involved with reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.

That was certainly true at IBM and Centex where my wife worked.

I do understand why when it is a merit based pay system. The good guys
make a whole lot more than the marginal guys.

it's the way it is everywhere. harry is just trying desperately to cover
for yet another lie...

If you live in a place where everyone works for the government or is
in a union, their salary is public knowledge.

When we did have those salary conversations at IBM it never turned out
well. The only one who was surprised about who made the most and least
was the person who made the least and he was ****ed.
It did make it clear that there was a merit component.
They mitigated that a little by staggering the pay raise schedules so
people could rationalize that they still had a raise coming.

At centex the salaries were fairly flat in a given step and length of
service but the bonus could really be a 5 figure number. That was
based purely on performance. That was the one people didn't talk about
much but if you looked at the performance chart on the wall it was
easy to guess.

In 2005 when they were really banging out houses, my wife's bonus
bought a new car, after taxes.


At the two large ad agencies I worked for, everyone knew everyone else's
salary in account services. For those of us who brought in new business
and serviced accounts, it was easy. We got a base salary and a healthy
percentage of the business we handled. At one AAAA agency in DC where I
worked for a number of years, I ended up as the account exec *and*
copywriter on three accounts, which made those accounts very profitable.
This was in the early to mid 1970's. My base salary was, if memory
serves, about $45,000 and the agency's gross commissions on the ad and
PR business I managed amounted to about a million dollars. Those
accounts would have require several copywriters, but the agency didn't
have to pay for them. That's when I first started earning in the six
figures, and on someone else's payroll. I wasn't yet 30, and all I had
were liberal arts degrees. In English.

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 6/19/12 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:16:57 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 6/19/2012 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is officiallydiscouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities... without anexception, they say that they are officially not allowed to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can, and has,led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to discuss this
with is their direct leader and HR. They know their direct report'ssalaries, of course, as they are involved with reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.

That was certainly true at IBM and Centex where my wife worked.

I do understand why when it is a merit based pay system. The good guys
make a whole lot more than the marginal guys.

it's the way it is everywhere. harry is just trying desperately to cover
for yet another lie...

If you live in a place where everyone works for the government or is
in a union, their salary is public knowledge.

When we did have those salary conversations at IBM it never turned out
well. The only one who was surprised about who made the most and least
was the person who made the least and he was ****ed.
It did make it clear that there was a merit component.
They mitigated that a little by staggering the pay raise schedules so
people could rationalize that they still had a raise coming.

At centex the salaries were fairly flat in a given step and length of
service but the bonus could really be a 5 figure number. That was
based purely on performance. That was the one people didn't talk about
much but if you looked at the performance chart on the wall it was
easy to guess.

In 2005 when they were really banging out houses, my wife's bonus
bought a new car, after taxes.


At the two large ad agencies I worked for, everyone knew everyone else's
salary in account services. For those of us who brought in new business
and serviced accounts, it was easy. We got a base salary and a healthy
percentage of the business we handled. At one AAAA agency in DC where I
worked for a number of years, I ended up as the account exec *and*
copywriter on three accounts, which made those accounts very profitable.
This was in the early to mid 1970's. My base salary was, if memory
serves, about $45,000 and the agency's gross commissions on the ad and
PR business I managed amounted to about a million dollars. Those
accounts would have require several copywriters, but the agency didn't
have to pay for them. That's when I first started earning in the six
figures, and on someone else's payroll. I wasn't yet 30, and all I had
were liberal arts degrees. In English.

"Self praise sucks" Harry Krause 2012.

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 6/19/12 12:16 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 6/19/2012 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss
this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is
officiallydiscouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I
polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities...
without anexception, they say that they are officially not allowed
to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can,
and has,led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to
discuss this with is their direct leader and HR. They know their
direct report'ssalaries, of course, as they are involved with
reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.

That was certainly true at IBM and Centex where my wife worked.

I do understand why when it is a merit based pay system. The good guys
make a whole lot more than the marginal guys.

it's the way it is everywhere. harry is just trying desperately to cover
for yet another lie...

JustSnot is speaking from his years of executive experience as a
warehouse worker for a supermarket chain.

What do you have against honest work?

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:51:46 AM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/19/12 11:48 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:31:24 AM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/19/12 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:21:27 AM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/19/12 11:17 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is officially discouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities... without an exception, they say that they are officially not allowed to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can, and has, led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to discuss this with is their direct leader and HR. They know their direct report's salaries, of course, as they are involved with reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.



Crikey, are you a naive asshole or what?

This is how real business works, harry. You don't know anything about that, having sucked the union's teat for so long.



Bull****.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/jobcen...ary-talk_x.htm

As the article say, like it or not, clear expectations are set by many, if not most companies that salaries are kept private. You won't find it in the employee handbook (as it's illegal to have this "rule") but it's still clearly communicated. Most people find it in their best interest not to talk about it, again as the article points out.



Whatever the "expectation" is, people talk about their salaries, compare
them with their friends within and outside of the place where they work.

The article proves your "bs" was, well, BS.

The vast majority of the people I've encountered here and in my extensive travel in my job over the years don't talk about compensation. Of course a few do, and there are exceptions in some workplaces, but the vast majority in private industry don't. Period.

As to the cultural thing, in the South in polite company, you simply don't ask or tell about salary. My wife and I don't know what any of our family members are making (except for a couple of round numbers), and they don't ask us. Oh sure, a couple of workers at McDonalds would talk about that kind of stuff, but once you're in the professional realm at work, you just don't.

Obviously, polite company is something you don't understand.

On Jun 19, 12:07*pm, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...











On 6/19/12 8:23 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , dump-on-
says...

Angry? With the worthless buttbuddy of JustaSnake?

I suppose you really have no idea of how the car, boat, et cetera,
industry works at the retail level. I don't recall the exact numbers,
since the boat store sale was close to four decades ago, but like most
boat dealers, my dad floorplanned his boat and motor inventory. He
certainly didn't have $3 million of his own money tied up in that stuff
for many reasons, the most likely being he didn't have $3 million in
cash assets.

Ask some responsible adult you might know how floor planning works.

Crikey, the "intellectual" level in here, as presented by you and most
of your buddies, is just appalling.

You DID have a good idea, though, when you said that someone had
researched the NYFD to see if your father did get a fireboat welcome! I
think I will!

No need to do that...just ask your wife, the one you claimed was an
"excellent" researcher, even though it was obvious she couldn't find a
7-11 in a phone book. Oh, wait...even though you claim you aren't Loogy
and what you write and what passes for your thoughts are the same as
Loogy's, and you claim you don't live in Georgia, like Loogy, and you
claim you don't have a wife and daughter, and you're not JustSnotty's
ying-yang butt brother, you aren't capable of doing real research, either.

Go play with the other numnutz boys here, little boy.

Well, gee, while NOTHING you've written above is true about me, I do
have two friends in the NYFD. I'll make a phone call today, thanks! As
for the "other numnutz boys", you're the king of them. The "other" is
your buddy Don!

Now Kevin, I never talk badly of you.........well at least nothing
that is untrue.

On 6/19/12 2:31 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:51:46 AM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/19/12 11:48 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:31:24 AM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/19/12 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:21:27 AM UTC-4, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/19/12 11:17 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is officially discouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities... without an exception, they say that they are officially not allowed to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can, and has, led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to discuss this with is their direct leader and HR. They know their direct report's salaries, of course, as they are involved with reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.



Crikey, are you a naive asshole or what?

This is how real business works, harry. You don't know anything about that, having sucked the union's teat for so long.



Bull****.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/jobcen...ary-talk_x.htm

As the article say, like it or not, clear expectations are set by many, if not most companies that salaries are kept private. You won't find it in the employee handbook (as it's illegal to have this "rule") but it's still clearly communicated. Most people find it in their best interest not to talk about it, again as the article points out.



Whatever the "expectation" is, people talk about their salaries, compare
them with their friends within and outside of the place where they work.

The article proves your "bs" was, well, BS.

The vast majority of the people I've encountered here and in my extensive travel in my job over the years don't talk about compensation. Of course a few do, and there are exceptions in some workplaces, but the vast majority in private industry don't. Period.

As to the cultural thing, in the South in polite company, you simply don't ask or tell about salary. My wife and I don't know what any of our family members are making (except for a couple of round numbers), and they don't ask us. Oh sure, a couple of workers at McDonalds would talk about that kind of stuff, but once you're in the professional realm at work, you just don't.

Obviously, polite company is something you don't understand.


Polite? South Carolina, possibly the most racist state in the United States.

Choke on it.

On 6/19/12 1:40 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , dump-on-
says...

On 6/19/12 12:16 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 6/19/2012 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss
this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is
officiallydiscouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I
polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities...
without anexception, they say that they are officially not allowed
to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can,
and has,led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to
discuss this with is their direct leader and HR. They know their
direct report'ssalaries, of course, as they are involved with
reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.

That was certainly true at IBM and Centex where my wife worked.

I do understand why when it is a merit based pay system. The good guys
make a whole lot more than the marginal guys.

it's the way it is everywhere. harry is just trying desperately to cover
for yet another lie...

JustSnot is speaking from his years of executive experience as a
warehouse worker for a supermarket chain.

What do you have against honest work?


What has JustSnot to do with honest work?

On 6/19/12 1:40 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , dump-on-
says...

On 6/19/12 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:16:57 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 6/19/2012 12:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 08:17:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:45:24 AM UTC-4, Boating All Out wrote:
In ,
says...


Knowing what everyone else makes is a union/government thing. Most
corporations have a confidentiality policy on salaries but they are
also merit based companies not simply time in grade,.

Your view is noted and rejected. Sounds like a culture issue.
I spent decades in salaried/bonused private enterprise.
As I said, I always knew ballpark what others were earning.
If you're competent and competitive, you wouldn't want it otherwise.
People talk. You can choose to not inquire, and keep your ears closed.
Best to know the market price of your abilities/products.
"Quiet rooms" never was my style.
Runs counter to keeping others' hands off my wallet.

I call BS. While I agree that it is a cultural thing to not discuss this among friends and relatives locally, I know it is officiallydiscouraged at the company I work for. Just for fun I polled some friends who work at large companies in big cities... without anexception, they say that they are officially not allowed to discuss salary or bonus structure with peers, and doing so can, and has,led to dismissal. The only people they are allowed to discuss this
with is their direct leader and HR. They know their direct report'ssalaries, of course, as they are involved with reviewing them and adjusting their compensation.

That was certainly true at IBM and Centex where my wife worked.

I do understand why when it is a merit based pay system. The good guys
make a whole lot more than the marginal guys.

it's the way it is everywhere. harry is just trying desperately to cover
for yet another lie...

If you live in a place where everyone works for the government or is
in a union, their salary is public knowledge.

When we did have those salary conversations at IBM it never turned out
well. The only one who was surprised about who made the most and least
was the person who made the least and he was ****ed.
It did make it clear that there was a merit component.
They mitigated that a little by staggering the pay raise schedules so
people could rationalize that they still had a raise coming.

At centex the salaries were fairly flat in a given step and length of
service but the bonus could really be a 5 figure number. That was
based purely on performance. That was the one people didn't talk about
much but if you looked at the performance chart on the wall it was
easy to guess.

In 2005 when they were really banging out houses, my wife's bonus
bought a new car, after taxes.


At the two large ad agencies I worked for, everyone knew everyone else's
salary in account services. For those of us who brought in new business
and serviced accounts, it was easy. We got a base salary and a healthy
percentage of the business we handled. At one AAAA agency in DC where I
worked for a number of years, I ended up as the account exec *and*
copywriter on three accounts, which made those accounts very profitable.
This was in the early to mid 1970's. My base salary was, if memory
serves, about $45,000 and the agency's gross commissions on the ad and
PR business I managed amounted to about a million dollars. Those
accounts would have require several copywriters, but the agency didn't
have to pay for them. That's when I first started earning in the six
figures, and on someone else's payroll. I wasn't yet 30, and all I had
were liberal arts degrees. In English.

"Self praise sucks" Harry Krause 2012.


When you grow up and get a job, Loogy, maybe your wife and daughter will
take you back.