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New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

BOB wrote:

Sorry, just one more.

Hey Spanky " I'm impartial, and don't just categorically hate Bayliners"
Krause:

Where or how in my four sentences, did I refute your selection criteria?

What I did do was point out what runs contrary to what you've repeatedly
try to tell me, that is, to quote you directly:

"I've never implied Bayliners were the only crappy boats."

You've just proven my point about your unfounded bigotry. Brands A-Z
CAN, AND DO the same thing the same way. Radar Arch, Gas Tank,
Interior, and I/O. The shortcommings you address as:

"typical of Bayliner

are in fact typical in the entire marine industry. But only Bayliner
gets maligned by you.

No only do you miss the point in trying to comprehend my posts. It's
obvious you don't even comprehend what YOU POST.

If you did, you would not dispute what I've been saying ALL THIS TIME
that you unfairly single out bayliners, for you derrogatory comments.

(shaking his head) WOW...

Bob...go back to high school and learn how to read, spell, and write.
And look up "dispute" and "refute"... the differences between them seem
to give you trouble.

And, one more time, Bob, I have "maligned" other brands of boats. So
your claims that I only slam Bayliners are incorrect.

We don't seem to be sharing a common language here, Bob. Perhaps if I
posted in pidgin English, it might help you understand.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

BOB wrote in message ]...

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications.

I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial
applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW.
An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for.

You pull a statement completely out of you ass and it's up to me to prove it wrong?

There are no Bayliners in use for the type of operation I mentioned,
in that area, trust me

Just for argument, how many of those captains use Chris-Crafts, Jerseys,
Larsons, Wellcrafts, Four Winns, etc...

I've seen a few Wellcraft CC's in use down in the Keys for diving
op's.

IIRC none of the other brands you mention are in that market.

Bayliner is, or so they think.

Possible past Bayliner quality control problems, cheaper price, cheaper
fit and finish, and lower power offerings of the base models....

Well now, look who's "ragging" on Bayliner.

Okay, I'll bite. "I wonder why Bayliners are not popular among this
small contingent of boaters".

You may wish to refer to your own words, quoted above. I'll just add
one more he You'll also take a bath when you finally wise up and
try and sell/trade up the damn thing.

Look in any of the local papers and you'll see -ten- Bayliners for
sale ad's for -one- of any other brand of boat. The classified ad
section is like a Bayliner "rendezvous".

I endeavor to be a jerk all of the time but as you can see, nobody's
perfect.

Keep it up, you getting closer I think you're getting to your goal.

I try not to disappoint.

If your comment is that my boating environment is not demanding, and that is the reason, I am happy with Bayliners, then it is you who need to take my
word that I have been in Bayliners in demanding conditions, or come up her
and see for yourself.

I saw your "great bayliner story", and Chuck Gould (as usual) made the
necessary post pointing out your all too typical, overly enthusiastic
newbie power boater, foolhardiness. Take a cab, bus, call a
friend/relative, ect, to get home next time.

But since you bring it up, you've been powerboating since 1999, right?

You had that 16'er for one whole "season", right?

You put an awe inspiring "250 miles" on it, right? (I've done half
that in one weekend)

That would mean you've had your current boat for less than 3 years,
right?

Why don't you come back when you get a little experience and let the
poundings you like to submit yourself to begin to take their toll on
your boat. Just because you were very fortunate one time doesn't prove
much either, Mr Logic, except for some exceedingly poor judgement on
your part.

Better yet go to www.boatnerd.com and look for information on Lake Erie.

I am well aware of the Great Lakes.

This means that not all Bayliners can be dismissed as crap, and people who
feel the need to single out and dismiss all Bayliners, are behaving in
an ignorant manner.

I never said they were "crap".

I said where I see them and, where I do not see them.

We know what people do where I see them and, what they do where I do
not see them.

People can draw their own conclusions.
--
SJM

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

Scott McFadden wrote:
BOB wrote in message ]...

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications.

I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial
applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW.
An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for.

One of Bob's problems is that he is not a careful reader, as the rest of
your post here makes perfectly clear.

You pull a statement completely out of you ass and it's up to me to prove it wrong?

There are no Bayliners in use for the type of operation I mentioned,
in that area, trust me

Just for argument, how many of those captains use Chris-Crafts, Jerseys,
Larsons, Wellcrafts, Four Winns, etc...

I've seen a few Wellcraft CC's in use down in the Keys for diving
op's.

IIRC none of the other brands you mention are in that market.

Bayliner is, or so they think.

Possible past Bayliner quality control problems, cheaper price, cheaper
fit and finish, and lower power offerings of the base models....

Well now, look who's "ragging" on Bayliner.

Okay, I'll bite. "I wonder why Bayliners are not popular among this
small contingent of boaters".

You may wish to refer to your own words, quoted above. I'll just add
one more he You'll also take a bath when you finally wise up and
try and sell/trade up the damn thing.

Look in any of the local papers and you'll see -ten- Bayliners for
sale ad's for -one- of any other brand of boat. The classified ad
section is like a Bayliner "rendezvous".

I endeavor to be a jerk all of the time but as you can see, nobody's
perfect.

Keep it up, you getting closer I think you're getting to your goal.

I try not to disappoint.

If your comment is that my boating environment is not demanding, and that is the reason, I am happy with Bayliners, then it is you who need to take my
word that I have been in Bayliners in demanding conditions, or come up her
and see for yourself.

I saw your "great bayliner story", and Chuck Gould (as usual) made the
necessary post pointing out your all too typical, overly enthusiastic
newbie power boater, foolhardiness. Take a cab, bus, call a
friend/relative, ect, to get home next time.

But since you bring it up, you've been powerboating since 1999, right?

You had that 16'er for one whole "season", right?

You put an awe inspiring "250 miles" on it, right? (I've done half
that in one weekend)

That would mean you've had your current boat for less than 3 years,
right?

Why don't you come back when you get a little experience and let the
poundings you like to submit yourself to begin to take their toll on
your boat. Just because you were very fortunate one time doesn't prove
much either, Mr Logic, except for some exceedingly poor judgement on
your part.

Better yet go to www.boatnerd.com and look for information on Lake Erie.

I am well aware of the Great Lakes.

This means that not all Bayliners can be dismissed as crap, and people who
feel the need to single out and dismiss all Bayliners, are behaving in
an ignorant manner.

I never said they were "crap".

I said where I see them and, where I do not see them.

We know what people do where I see them and, what they do where I do
not see them.

People can draw their own conclusions.
--
SJM

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:04:13 -0400, BOB
wrote:

If someone said "I think Bayliners are bad for salt water use because
they do not use stainless steel fittings"

You've put your finger rignt on it. The fittings and trim that
Bayliner uses on their smaller boats look like the surface of the
moon after a few years around salt water. This is not conjecture;
there's lots of them around to take a look at.

Regarding the ability to go off shore, I'd talk to some surveyors and
your insurance company first. It's one thing to go out, quite another
to come back.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:23:51 -0400, BOB
wrote:

previous unsubstainted ramblings for other ignorant elitest, conspire to
make Bayline an easy target

===========================

That's wrong. They're an easy target because they're an easy target.

Very visible, very deficient.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

I saw your "great bayliner story", and Chuck Gould (as usual) made the
necessary post pointing out your all too typical, overly enthusiastic
newbie power boater, foolhardiness. Take a cab, bus, call a
friend/relative, ect, to get home next time.

I have no problem with Gould, Wally, or most people in this group. My
problem is with a few elitist who thrive on the "My boat is better than
your boat" mentality. I really don't care who you are or what type of
boat you own, this elitism goes against the grain of everthing I was
raised to cherish with respect to the civility and comaraderie of the
boating fraternity. In all my travels through the great lakes, and even
the Florida panhandle, it is, thankfully, a rarity to encounter this
mindset. Sadly it is all too prevelant in this group.

Gould made some very good points and was tactful about the points he
wanted to make. he wasn't responding to belittle a person or boat, or to
cite how great his brand of boat is, but to express his opinion and
legitimate concerns. I respect anyone who tactfully points out the
flaws in something using known facts and personal experience as he did,
instead of slinging left-handed or derrogatory remarks, by making casual
inferences that are of questionable relevance to their statement.

In my response to Gould's post I conceeded he was right. I noticed I had
said: "lack of experience" in the sixth paragraph in my story, when I
wanted to say was: "lack of experience pulling this vessel out of a tight
mooring". I further qualified my remarks, stating that I did have
sufficient rough water experience and equipment to minimize the risk and
make the venture a little less foolhardy than it seemed. I had
experience, on this specific route, how to minimize weather, take
advantage of the lees in the passage, as well as carry redundant safety
equipment (tranceiver, GPS, flares, day signal, portable air horn. cell
phone), in a watertight box in case the worst happened.

I don't think my response changed Gould's mind on what he thought of the
passage, and that's okay. Hopefully, it clarified that I was not some
newbie cowboy, going out yelling "Yee Haaa" without a thought of what
they were getting into or how to handle it when they hit it.

BTW - I never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the strand, but
suggesting to take a cab or a bus from an island??? If you had read the
posts in this thread, you would have known that was not an alternative, as
well the fact that I was not taking my boat out unprepared.

But since you bring it up, you've been powerboating since 1999, right?

Well, since you brought it up, you're wrong. I've been powerboating on
western Lake Erie since 1969. In boats ranging from a 15 foot bowrider
to a 40' Wheeler under power. I've been sailing since about 1993 in boats
from a 16' Cat boat to a 40' Trimarran. In thirty years plus of boating
at this location, while I haven't seen everything, I seen enough to
minimize my risks for chances I am willing to take. The majority of
fatialities in my area are from people who don't assume, plan, and are not
ready, for the bad conditions.

You had that 16'er for one whole "season", right?

Owned the 16' one season, docked in Sandusky for 1/2 a season. My
sailboat was up there previosly, so I didn't take it out on weekends until
the later half. Instead I putted around Cleveland, launching from Rocky
River, which I do not count as miles because it wasn't "on a trip" by my
definition.

You put an awe inspiring "250 miles" on it, right? (I've done half
that in one weekend)

125 miles in one weekend is a nice trip. I won't belittle it as you tried
to. What kind of boat was it on? The trip I described in the story you
supposedly read was the last leg home from a trip to Windsor Ontario, at
least a 130 miles round trip. Once again, if you had bothered to read,
instead of just scanning for things to criticiize, you would have saved
your smartass comment for another time. Also I've done almost three
times the 125 mile distance you cited in the weekend time you've
specified, just not in a 16' boat.

That would mean you've had your current boat for less than 3 years,
right?

Yeah I think I owned the Trophy for either 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 seasons. My
current boat is a 23' Chris-Craft, just in this year, is still in
shakedown until the '04 season. What's your point?

Why don't you come back when you get a little experience and let the
poundings you like to submit yourself to begin to take their toll on
your boat. Just because you were very fortunate one time doesn't prove
much either, Mr Logic, except for some exceedingly poor judgement on
your part.

Ouch. Okay, Scott. I'm back! And if you had been following this thread
you would have noted that I had a familiarity with rough seas on the
western end of Lake Erie long before I acquired the 16 foot cuddy. In my
childhood on my father's boats, as an adult boating with friends, and my
own sailboats, is where I've gained my experience in rough weather boat
handling in this region.

I've been out in three models of Bayliner, and numerous other boats from
Sea Ray, Four Winns, Jersey, Wheeler, Lyman, Richardson, Chris-Craft, etc,
all in conditions that ranged from wonderful to worst. My experiences
have formed the opinion that, foot per foot, a Bayliner can handle these
seas as well as any other boat I've been on. I'm sorry but basing an
opinion on the viability of Bayliners based on actual personal experience
is a damn sight better logic, than pulling a statement out of your ass
about how many Bayliners are used for charter on 500 miles miles of
coastline, or counting the pictures of Bayliners on a fishing web site.

I've done what you asked, returning when I had the experience, why don't
you reciprocate the same courtesy and come back when you can read a
complete thread, and offer substancial information to debate posts.

Better yet go to www.boatnerd.com and look for information on Lake Erie.

I am well aware of the Great Lakes.

Good. Assuming that your awarness comes from personal experience and not
a web site, I hope you enjoyed them as much as I have in the last
thirty-four years.

This means that not all Bayliners can be dismissed as crap, and people who
feel the need to single out and dismiss all Bayliners, are behaving in
an ignorant manner.

I never said they were "crap".

Your right, Scott. You never said that "baylinesr were crap". But if you:

Start tossing out snobby left-handed remarks, pooh poohing, a brand name
that people own and take pride in owning, as if the boat and their owners
are beneath you.

Cite vague reference of questionable relevance, passing it off as fact,
then, when someone calls you on it, try to change the argument by pointing
out some insignificant detail, or hide behind your words, because you
didn't actually "say it", only implied it.

Then Scott, your not someone who wants to teach those with less experience
and learn from those with more experiece. You're not echoing the very
core of the boating fraternity, that I believe rec.boats was created to
emulate. Instead your an ignorant elitist, who is more concerned with
flinging your crap with no more thought than a monkey at the zoo.

Like anything else in life, Scott, you choose how to behave. Don't
dismiss or imply someone elses boating choices as beneath you standards,
and expect a warn reception.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

In article , Harry Krause
wrote:

Scott McFadden wrote:
BOB wrote in message
]...

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications.

I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial
applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW.
An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for.

One of Bob's problems is that he is not a careful reader, as the rest of
your post here makes perfectly clear.

I am a careful reader, just not a gullible one. I'm to believe he knows
every fishing vessel on a 500 mile coastliine, then infer the viability of
Bayliners based on a loose inference.

You too should get along very good. You both have similar definitions for
facts.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)

I should also point out that I am a terrible typist, speller, and use
incorrect grammar, but y'all ready knew that! :^)

I am a careful reader, just not a gullible one. I'm to believe he knows
every fishing vessel on a 500 mile coastliine, then infer the viability of
Bayliners based on a loose inference.

You too should get along very good. You both have similar definitions for
facts.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)