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New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
Bob,
Bayliner is a division of Brunswick, who owns many boat lines. The Bayliner line *is* Brunswicks "price point" line. One achieves a "price point" boat by cutting a few corners here and there so that your boat *can* sell cheaper than comparable boats. It's simple economics. Think of them as the Volkswagon or Hundai of little boats. Genmar also has "price point" boats - the Glastron SX series comes to mind as an example. Now, recently Brunswick has taken some steps to divorce the "Trophy" line of Bayliners and the "Meridian yachts" from the Bayliner name. They did this because Bayliner has become equated with "cheap boats" and they don't want those two lines to present that way. The more I've learned about different little boats - the more a Bayliner would never satisfy me. That's not to say it's not a good entry level boat for getting your feet wet - but you'll prolly want more as you get "boat saavy". Good boat cheap? - depends on use. Great boat cheap? - nope. In the immortal words of Meat (that's Mr. Loaf to you) : "There ain't no Coup DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Crackerjack box." -W "Bob D." wrote in message news:sailbad_d_sinner- As such it is my opinion that bayliners are a for most applications, a viable, option, and people who continuously and globally bash, dismiss, or slight the entire Bayliner brand, without provocation, and without a shred of constructive information, are behaving in a bigoted, and unfair manner. When they act in this bigoted manner they are in fact perpetuating a false or outdated, or over generalized sterotype, and doing disservice to Bayliner owners, potential Bayliner owners, and the rec.boats groupo as a whole. Why is that so hard for people in this group to accept? |
New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
Bob D. wrote:
In article , Harry Krause wrote: Scott McFadden wrote: BOB wrote in message ]... Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications. I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW. An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for. One of Bob's problems is that he is not a careful reader, as the rest of your post here makes perfectly clear. I am a careful reader, just not a gullible one. I'm to believe he knows every fishing vessel on a 500 mile coastliine, then infer the viability of Bayliners based on a loose inference. You too should get along very good. You both have similar definitions for facts. Well, I fished off the Georgia-Florida Coast for six years, several times a week and at least one day on the weekend (unless the weather was horrible), and in the ICW and so forth, and in all those years, I saw one Bayliner Trophy engaged in offshore fishing. In fact, I knew the owner of that boat. I generally fished from the St. Mary's River in Georgia down past St. Augustine in Florida, an area with, literally, thousands of small fishing boats and hundreds of larger ones. I don't even see that many Bayliner Trophies on Chesapeake Bay, although I do see plenty of Bayliners. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
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New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
I don't dispute a word you've said :^)
There is a big difference in what you've said and others who are taking pot shots at the line, dismissing them as crap. Also I believe those price cutting points are more fitting out that the actual hull layup. But then I must admit I really don't know this for a fact. Bob, Bayliner is a division of Brunswick, who owns many boat lines. The Bayliner line *is* Brunswicks "price point" line. One achieves a "price point" boat by cutting a few corners here and there so that your boat *can* sell cheaper than comparable boats. It's simple economics. Think of them as the Volkswagon or Hundai of little boats. Genmar also has "price point" boats - the Glastron SX series comes to mind as an example. Now, recently Brunswick has taken some steps to divorce the "Trophy" line of Bayliners and the "Meridian yachts" from the Bayliner name. They did this because Bayliner has become equated with "cheap boats" and they don't want those two lines to present that way. The more I've learned about different little boats - the more a Bayliner would never satisfy me. That's not to say it's not a good entry level boat for getting your feet wet - but you'll prolly want more as you get "boat saavy". Good boat cheap? - depends on use. Great boat cheap? - nope. In the immortal words of Meat (that's Mr. Loaf to you) : "There ain't no Coup DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Crackerjack box." -W |
New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
In article , "Don
Pulaski" wrote: Bob, Are Bayliners right wing or left wing? You got me there, Don. I really don't know. And I always forget to declare my political leaning when posting. Shame on me! :^) |
New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
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New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
Is it still bigotry if it's true?. Well, for one, nobody has been able to dispute what I caim is true about the brand. IMHO It's bigotry starts when people take if few experiences or "truths" and infer a broader belief. We ALL do it, we all have to. Otherwise life would be too complex. It becomes bigotry when the belief remains unaltered in light of any contradictory evidence. This definition applies to anything, not just Bayliners. To illustrate: Person A has a bad experience(s) with Bayliner. This is an absolute truth. Person A states: "My Bayliner is a piece of ****" this is most likely an absolute truth as it's their boat and they have direct experience with it. BUT If person A states: "ALL Bayliners are ****". This is no longer a truth, but a belief of a whole infered by a relatively small sample of the population. If Persons B & C, have had positive experiences and informs person A, and person A states "It's still a Bayliner, so it MUST be crap". This is bigotry. Person A now has new information of equal weight to what they based their original opinion on but, they chose to ignore it. Hypothetically. if you tell person A: "9 out of 10 Bayliners sucessfully rounded cape horn" they'll cite the 10th boat as "proof" bayliners are crap. On the opposite side of the coin, If I use my experiences to go spouting "all Bayliners are great". I would be over generalizing, and that is, IMHO, bigotry as well. But I don't make those claims, Wayne. I choose my words, I don't make outrageous and broad claims about the line, and cite multiple examples for the claims I do make. I have tried to be objective when people bring actual examples to light. I am willing to take specific examples that Harry and other present at face value, it just doesn't dispute the claim that they are unfairly maligned. Do they deserve any negative feedback? Sure. But realistically other brands probably do as well, but they are not maligned in any way. Also, there's a difference between someone stating that the brand does something different making it unsuitable for a specifis use, and globally implying that the brand is no good for any purpose, without even questioning what it's intended use is. I admire your spirited defense but am forced to question your judgement Don't admire what is most probably a character flaw. :^) It's not that I'm crazy about Bayliners, I own a Chris-Craft now. I just think some of these boating snobs are doing a disservice to a large group of people, when they toss out disparaging remarks without any due consideration. As for questioning my judgement, if it pertains to trying to appeal to any open-mindedness in this group? I'm beginning to agree. Most of my issues with the brand in question relate to long term durability, especially in a tough environment, not the ability to undertake a given voyage on a given day. An excellent point. But if you refer to other posts in this thread, you will have seen that I had other examples as well. Although I used one example of a friend, several friends have owned Bayliners for over 10 years (one 17 years, one 12, one 9), have put countless hours on their boats in all conditions, using them almost every weekend of the season. These boats have been through hell and back, and two of them have the scars to prove it. Would another brand fair better under similar use and care? Maybe. I really don't know. I have seen other brands that have not held up even with vigilant care, yet I do not necessarliy infer the entire product line is bad. My opinion is not based on one voyage. That would be stupid as others whe contend Bayline is not viable because one boat fell apart in a short time. I base my opinion using over ten years of personal experience with the brand. If you want to take a 16 foot boat of any kind out in 6 foot waves that's your business but please don't tell us how well prepared you were. You were lucky, that's all. Most of us have been at one time or another. I'll take exception to this. Please don't tell me my getting back is due to luck alone, because, quite simply Wayne, YOU WEREN'T THERE. You don't know how the waves were, you don't know which direction they were coming from, you don't know, the region, you don't know of the tactics used, and you just don't know my abilities to handle these conditions. Please keep in mind, I'm not arguing your opinion that this was not a bright idea, I'm just arguing that you shouldn't make absulute statements like: "You were lucky, that's all" when you don't have the facts to do so. From my point of view, it was a short passage, I knew the route, I knew the weather, and I knew how to minimize the weathers impact on my boat. I had bee caught out in similar conditions on a comparable sized craft. I had the experience and the proper accessories to make the passage. Even though I labeled the post "A great Bayliner Story", this is not a testament to how great Bayliners are. I could have made that passage is any comparable boat. Foremost, I simply thought it was an entertaining story, the secondary consideration, was using it as an example that Bayliner can't be "that bad" if they can an often do take weather as well as any other boats I have experience with. Was this a great idea? Of course not. But is wasn't a kamakazi mission you report it to be either. And while I'll buy that some luck was involved, in my safe passage, luck, whether good or bad, is involved in ANY passage. It's how we prepare for a passage that either diminishes or increases how much we have to rely on luck. Nice chatting with you. Bob Dimond |
New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
Well, I fished off the Georgia-Florida Coast for six years, several times a week and at least one day on the weekend (unless the weather was horrible), and in the ICW and so forth, and in all those years, I saw one Bayliner Trophy engaged in offshore fishing. In fact, I knew the owner of that boat. I generally fished from the St. Mary's River in Georgia down past St. Augustine in Florida, an area with, literally, thousands of small fishing boats and hundreds of larger ones. I don't even see that many Bayliner Trophies on Chesapeake Bay, although I do see plenty of Bayliners. I have absolutly no problem with that statement. But, let's be honest, Harry, because you didn't see them does that really mean that they don't exist? Can you at least entertain the possibility that you don't know every boat in this vast area, and there may be more than just ONE trophy going offshore? It really doesn't mean your statement is less valid, it just means that in such a boad expanse, it's impossible to know everything. It is one thing to state "in all those years, I saw one Bayliner Trophy engaged in offshore fishing" It's quite another thing to state there is not ONE Trophy used for charter in 500 miles of developed coastline, as Scott has directly stated. How can he possibly have knowledge of that fact? That is why I accuse Scott of pulling "facts" out of his ass. He could have just as categorically stated Trophys are the only boats boats used by charter captains in this 500 mile area, it still adds up to the same bull****. My argument with Scott, you or anyone, isn't that Bayliner isn't unpopular, or is best choice for a specific region or for a spefic purpose. I argue that if a Bayliner model is not suited for a specific application, their are other comparable models from other brands that are probably unsuitable as well. As such Bayliner should not be singled out. I have tried to be objective, and keep an open mind by not using my experience to say "Bayliners are great", I really do think they are for their price, but I think people have a point when they say their not interested in owning one. But I think you and others should give due consideration to my assertion that not all Bayliners are "bad", therefore Bayliners should not be so globally maligned, without provocation as you and others have done in the past, that all. You don't have to like 'em, but I believe when you go snubbing or bashing any person or boat in this group, without giving due consideration, you are being rude and doing the entire group a disservice. Bob Dimond |
New one on me - Laminate Flooring (Long, of course)
Bob D. wrote:
If the plywood is properly encapsulated, it not a problem. However *I DO* see your point if that encapulation fails.... If it isn't the right kind of plywood, it could be a problem, even if it is encapsulated. -- * * * email sent to will *never* get to me. |
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