New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

"Bob D." wrote in message
...

I have no doubt that you will find some Bayliners that are indeed a POS,
but that can easily be said for any boat that was neglected by its
previous owner.

But if it starts out as a Bayliner, improvements are equal to turd
polishing.

Have a hard look at the materials and contruction of Bayliner boats and
you'll notice they're just like churned out Chevys. That may be fine for
the road, not my choice for water.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

In article , "jps" wrote:

"Bob D." wrote in message
...

I have no doubt that you will find some Bayliners that are indeed a POS,
but that can easily be said for any boat that was neglected by its
previous owner.

But if it starts out as a Bayliner, improvements are equal to turd
polishing.


Hmmmm... My fearless foe's vast wit puzzles me. I better run that witty
reparte through my patented OGHMBHC (Our Gang He Man Bayliner Haters Club)
Translator:

"Bayliner Baaaad, My boat Gooood"

Ahhh yes, now I understand.

Have a hard look at the materials and contruction of Bayliner boats and
you'll notice they're just like churned out Chevys. That may be fine for
the road, not my choice for water.

Taking a "hard look" at a finished boat does not necessarily mean squat to
me. I for one do not pretend to be a materials engineer, structural
engineer, marine engineer, or even a certified marine mechanic. I cannot
infer that something on the whole is a POS just because something doesn't
look right in the fit and finish category.

Or perhaps I misunderstood you. Was your "hard look" taken at the
Brunswick Corp plant where Bayliners are produced? If so, I'm curious
did you visit a competitors plant for comparison? At the very least, can
you be more specific?

Well I can see its time for OGHMBHC translator again:

"Bayliner Baaaad, My boat Gooood"

Ahhh yes, now I understand.

The fact that you view Bayliners as the Chevrolet of boats is about the
only remark to your argument that has any bite. Bayliner, and its parent
corp Brunswick, are probably the largest manufacturer of powerboats in the
world. This might equate to Chevy and its parent corp GM in the
Automotive industry. In addition, I respect your opinion on not wanting
to chose the Chevy of boats, just as many people would choose a Cadillac
over a Chevrolet. But, using your chevy analogy, inferring that a Chevy
Cavalier is a POS but a Cadillac Cimmaron is not would mark the zenith of
stupidity.

I'm not trying to start an argument, in fact, I think I should concede
that of the boats I've looked at sometimes, the Bayliners fit and finish
is not always measure up to a comparable boat. But it seems to me that
the price difference between these comparable boats often more than makes
up for what the Bayliner lacks in fit and finish or extras. It might be
just me but for a $8000 - $10000 difference in the price of a 28 foot boat
of comparable specifications, I would think that one could easily take
care of the fit and finish or other small problems, and have money to
spare, so how does that qualify the Bayliner brand to be a POS?

So for Harry, NYOB, Greg O, and all the people in this group who insist on
dismissing Bayliner as anyone choice of boat I humbly ask:

How did Bayliner specifically deserve this reputation, was it earned from
personal experience?

Since its only Bayliner that seems to be singled out, does that mean all
other boat manufactures are okay? What about Sea Rays?

Oh and when answering these questions, how about giving me some empirical
data instead of a narrow-minded smart ass remark, okay?

Unfortunately I don't have some people's super human power of arrogance.
So I cannot say that bayliner is better or worse than any other boat,
because quite frankly, I DON'T KNOW. All I have are my meager experiences
aboard several Bayliners. One Bayliner (Ciera) belongs to a friend who
bought the boat new in 1986 and we traveled on average 50 miles each
weeked for a period of five years and then 30 miles each weekend for the
last 12 years. Those trips were made on Lake Erie in all types of
weather from dead calm to 8-10 foot seas (that only happened once, thank
god). My first powerboat was a 16 ft Bayliner Cuddy. I probably put
more miles on that boat in one Ohio season than most people put on a boat
in Florida all year. We survived 6-8 foot seas in that boat. It wasn't
plesant, but the boat made it and I never felt endangered. My last
bayliner rode through rough seas better than the larger boat I use today.
All in all I've had pretty good experiences with bayliner boats. Were my
experience perfect with Bayliners? Hell No. Would I ever overlook them
because of my experiences? Hell no.

In contrast, I've known people who bought the "better" boats and still had
problems. Case in point I had a girlfirend who bought a brand new 2000
Four Winns 27 footer. Besides having a layout that was unsuitable for
cruising (a matter of taste). There was no way to keep the cushions on
the convertable Vee berth. The stereo radios would not work, when the
shorepower was plugged in, due to interferrance. Both the dealer and
manufacturer told them there was nothing they could do. When I first
looked at her boat I pointed out the the flush mount using a gasket
without a lip was a point of failure. Sure enough, within its first
season that gasket faileed and water was leaking in the cabin.
Friends of my father have a 45 foot Californian, thay bought for
$400,000. The boat has a beautiful wet bar on the back deck, complete
with a refidgerator. They don't use the fridge, why? Because the refer
door faces AFT!!!

Obviously I've droned on long enough so I better use the patented BDITLW
(Bob Dimond is too Long Winded) Translator:

"All boats baaaaaad, all boats gooood"

Whether it's a multimillion dollar Parker 25 Wunderbot, a 16 foot Bayliner
or anything in between. My experiece forms my opinion that accross the
board the Marine industry fails to deliver the quality and value that a
consumer should expect for their money. That means in some way they're
all pieces of ****. To actually single one brand out is arrogance. To
single it out without personal experience or statistics is IMHO pure
stupidity.

Bob Dimond

New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

Wow, this is one tough crowd. There is quite a resentment of Bayliners
here. Glad I don't own one. Reminds me of the audiophile areas I
frequent. Ever hear of Bose speakers? They are to audio what Bayliner is
to boats. No highs- no lows-- must be Bose.

Black-n-Gold wrote:

Saw a boat for sale last night - a 1977 Bayliner - that the owner had just
installed laminate flooring on. Looks very cool, however I don't know how
practical it is.


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Bob D. wrote:

I have yet to see anyone offer any significant
empirical data, even significant anectdotal evidence, that any boat of a
given brand name is clearly superior or inferior to another brand name,
when factoring in things like initial cost, and care.

Oh? Try going 30 miles offshore in a Bayliner and a boat of similar
sized designed for ocean use.




--
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scottht wrote:

Wow, this is one tough crowd. There is quite a resentment of Bayliners
here. Glad I don't own one. Reminds me of the audiophile areas I
frequent. Ever hear of Bose speakers? They are to audio what Bayliner is
to boats. No highs- no lows-- must be Bose.



I've never understood the clamor for Bose speakers. To me, they sound
like...small speakers. When it comes to reproducing sound accurately, I
don't believe you can fool the laws of physics.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

"Bob D." wrote in message
...
In article , "jps"
wrote:

You should consider hooking up with Karen. You two could have incredibly
long-winded discussions on the merits of boat building.

My *opinion* is based on having observed Bayliner workmanship and materials
on many of their boats. Like any manufacturer of a production vessel,
decisions are made based on meeting the expectations of the customers. In
order to make a competitively priced product, the product must be
manufactured efficiently and sometimes with inferior materials. For the
manufacturer, that's the beauty of a production boat, economies of scale
have an effect on the company's bottom line and they can capture a
significant market share because of the marketability (price) of the vessel.
They have their market niche and many people enjoy their products. That's
why they changed the name of their larger vessels. They do not have a good
reputation in the higher dollar market because people expect fit and finish
and good materials.

The Bayliner Chevy is not the kind of craftsmanship I admire nor the kind of
product I'm eager to own. And, I'm not playing the "my boat's better than
yours" game because there are plenty of boats built better than the one I
own.

So there!

New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

Wow, I think you and I could get along well.

Harry Krause wrote:

scottht wrote:

Wow, this is one tough crowd. There is quite a resentment of Bayliners
here. Glad I don't own one. Reminds me of the audiophile areas I
frequent. Ever hear of Bose speakers? They are to audio what Bayliner is
to boats. No highs- no lows-- must be Bose.



I've never understood the clamor for Bose speakers. To me, they sound
like...small speakers. When it comes to reproducing sound accurately, I
don't believe you can fool the laws of physics.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


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New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

Oh? Try going 30 miles offshore in a Bayliner and a boat of similar
sized designed for ocean use.

And you'll discover that the boat "designed for ocean use" is probably superior
to *any* boat designed primarily for inland waters or freshwater lakes.

New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

"Bob D." wrote in message
...
Ahhh yes, yet another Mensa candidate dribbles out his words of wit and
wisdom using his intellectual superpowers in spotting the word "Bayliner".



Geez, Bob, lighten up before you have a heart attack! Didn't you notice the
wink, perhaps indicating a bit of humor??
Greg

New one on me - Laminate Flooring
 

Oh? Have you? I thought as much.


In article , Harry Krause
wrote:

Bob D. wrote:

I have yet to see anyone offer any significant
empirical data, even significant anectdotal evidence, that any boat of a
given brand name is clearly superior or inferior to another brand name,
when factoring in things like initial cost, and care.

Oh? Try going 30 miles offshore in a Bayliner and a boat of similar
sized designed for ocean use.




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.