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#1
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initial kayak impressions
"William R. Watt" wrote: on the topic of lessons, there's been quite a heated debate in the local Ottawa paddling newsgroup ott.rec.canoe-kayak. I'm on the "no lessons" side of the discussion. That's an interesting position for a novice kayaker to take. Whether to seek instruction or not largely depends on how long you want to take to learn and how much you want to learn. You can teach yourself some skills from books, but you can learn much faster with instruction. Some techniques are nearly impossible to describe adequately in print. "Instruction" doesn't necessarily mean "professional instruction". Many clubs offer free or low-cost instruction or "skills sessions" which can dramatically shorten your learning curve. -- Regards Brian |
#2
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initial kayak impressions
Brian Nystrom ) writes:
"William R. Watt" wrote: on the topic of lessons, there's been quite a heated debate in the local Ottawa paddling newsgroup ott.rec.canoe-kayak. I'm on the "no lessons" side of the discussion. That's an interesting position for a novice kayaker to take. Whether to seek instruction or not largely depends on how long you want to take to learn and how much you want to learn. You can teach yourself some skills from books, but you can learn much faster with instruction. Some techniques are nearly impossible to describe adequately in print. "Instruction" doesn't necessarily mean "professional instruction". Many clubs offer free or low-cost instruction or "skills sessions" which can dramatically shorten your learning curve. I agree. That has been my basic position in the discussion. In addition to your suggestions I've been saying that those of us with webbed feet who grew up partially immersed in water learned from our families and by trial and error. I also make the point that lessons can give you knowledge but only practice gives you skill and experience. Knowlege is available from many sources. However "professional's" in the discussion maintain that most paddlers are some kind of dummies who need to buy lessons and go on guided trips. Perhaps the dummies gravitate toward professional paddlers and that's all they see. I also suspect a lot of professional paddlers came up through their own kind of system and know no other. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
#3
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initial kayak impressions
a few more impressions ...
Tonight I paddled a 19 ft kayak but it did not have any cargo so it sat high and was light and unstable. The sales rep said the only way to try one of these multi-day trip kayaks is to rent one, load it up, and paddle it around for a day or two. He gave me a sales booklet of specs for the kayaks his store sells. Only some of them listed load capacity. Others just stated the internal volume. None showed the design draft or the immersion per unit load above that. These are numbers hull design programs spit out. They should be in the specifications for purchasers on load carrying boats. On the way to the beach today I visited two of the sporting goods stores who are participating in the evening demonstrations. The stores had a bunch of kayaks up on racks where I was able to look over the hulls, especailly the bottoms. I was surprized to see one of the chined boats had a convexity in a flat panel. This was in a new boat that had never been used. I was also suprized to see a hull distorted by a bulkhead. I didn't even need to my hand over the hull to feel for it it. It stood out visibly like the proverbial sore thunmb. I know enough about boatbuilding to realize the repetitive strain boats take as waves pass under the hull disorting the weak ones and breaking down the material they are made of, saying nothing of loss of performance. On some sailboats bulkheads do not come in direct contact with the hull but are cushioned by a foam insert to prevent hard spots. After seeing these kayaks in the stores I'd choose a round bottom hull because it would be less likely to have weak spots. The next thing I'd like to try is climbing back into (or onto) different kayaks to see which ones are easiest to re-enter. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
#4
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initial kayak impressions
"William R. Watt" wrote: a few more impressions ... Tonight I paddled a 19 ft kayak but it did not have any cargo so it sat high and was light and unstable. The sales rep said the only way to try one of these multi-day trip kayaks is to rent one, load it up, and paddle it around for a day or two. There are a lot of "barges" on the market and surprisingly, they sell well, despite the fact that most people who buy them will never do an expedition. It's probably due to the same reasons that people buy SUV's, the "bigger is better" mentality, "just in case" and delusions of grandeur. Most people would be better off with a lower volume day boat...and a small, fuel efficient car. He gave me a sales booklet of specs for the kayaks his store sells. Only some of them listed load capacity. Others just stated the internal volume. None showed the design draft or the immersion per unit load above that. These are numbers hull design programs spit out. They should be in the specifications for purchasers on load carrying boats. Most people wouldn't understand these numbers, so they're rarely published. On the way to the beach today I visited two of the sporting goods stores who are participating in the evening demonstrations. The stores had a bunch of kayaks up on racks where I was able to look over the hulls, especailly the bottoms. I was surprized to see one of the chined boats had a convexity in a flat panel. This was in a new boat that had never been used. I was also suprized to see a hull distorted by a bulkhead. I didn't even need to my hand over the hull to feel for it it. It stood out visibly like the proverbial sore thunmb. If you were looking at plastic boats, that's typical. There are a few out there that use better materials that are more distortion resistant (Prijon, P&H), but most polyethylene hulls will distort due to heat and/or pressure. They will usually return to shape if left out in the sun. I know enough about boatbuilding to realize the repetitive strain boats take as waves pass under the hull disorting the weak ones and breaking down the material they are made of, saying nothing of loss of performance. Polyethylene doesn't break down with repetitive stress, but it does flex. Composite hulls are stiffer. On some sailboats bulkheads do not come in direct contact with the hull but are cushioned by a foam insert to prevent hard spots. Some kayaks use foam bulkheads, for the same reason. However, it's not as much of a problem as some people would lead you to believe. My boats get used hard and banged around quite a bit and I have yet to have a problem due to a hard bulkhead. After seeing these kayaks in the stores I'd choose a round bottom hull because it would be less likely to have weak spots. That's not an issue with a well-made boat. Choose the boat that fits you best and handles the way you want, and ignore the hull shape. Kayak performance is dependent on far more than hull cross-section shape. The next thing I'd like to try is climbing back into (or onto) different kayaks to see which ones are easiest to re-enter. There's a lot of variation there, too. Personally, I prefer to concentrate on how the boat works on the water, since that's where I am 99%+ of the time. I find small cockpits to offer increased control and security, despite the fact that I' 6' tall. -- Regards Brian |
#5
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initial kayak impressions
Brian Nystrom ) writes:
Most people wouldn't understand these numbers, so they're rarely published. what the sales literature had were vague statements like "for weekends" or "for multi-day trips". I think they should be more spacific and say "this boat is designed to perform best with a load between 250 and 500 lbs". I don't see the value of interior volume since its more important to know how much the boat will float the size of what it will hold. Room sizes are more appropriate to buying houses which don't have to float their contents. If you were looking at plastic boats, that's typical. There are a few out there that use better materials that are more distortion resistant (Prijon, P&H), but most polyethylene hulls will distort due to heat and/or pressure. They will usually return to shape if left out in the sun. I was careful to distinguish between design weakness and temporary distortion. I've seek a kayak come off a trailer after a long trip with a big dent in the side which will strighten out. No, the flat spot on the chined boat was due to the material being too thin. Housing standards specify the span beteen joists for plywood of a given thickness. There are similar standards for boats from insurance associations and naval architects (eg military), and guidelines such as David Gerr's "Elements of Boat Strength" of which our public library has a copy. The hull design programs I've seen don't cover "scantlings", but do cover a lot of other things like shape, initial stability, capacity, resistance, etc. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
#6
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initial kayak impressions
"William R. Watt" wrote: Brian Nystrom ) writes: Most people wouldn't understand these numbers, so they're rarely published. what the sales literature had were vague statements like "for weekends" or "for multi-day trips". I think they should be more spacific and say "this boat is designed to perform best with a load between 250 and 500 lbs". I don't see the value of interior volume since its more important to know how much the boat will float the size of what it will hold. Room sizes are more appropriate to buying houses which don't have to float their contents. I don't disagree with you, but what they're doing is catering to the market. Categories such as those you mention are useful for the average person who's trying to figure out what boat suits their needs. Carrying capacity is commonly published, but moreso for higher-end boats. It's also easily misinterpreted. Is it the designed cargo weight? Is it the weight at which the boat submerges? How much of a safety margin is built in? Etc, etc. If the manufacturer provides enough detail, it can be a useful number to know. If you were looking at plastic boats, that's typical. There are a few out there that use better materials that are more distortion resistant (Prijon, P&H), but most polyethylene hulls will distort due to heat and/or pressure. They will usually return to shape if left out in the sun. I was careful to distinguish between design weakness and temporary distortion. I've seek a kayak come off a trailer after a long trip with a big dent in the side which will strighten out. No, the flat spot on the chined boat was due to the material being too thin. Housing standards specify the span beteen joists for plywood of a given thickness. There are similar standards for boats from insurance associations and naval architects (eg military), and guidelines such as David Gerr's "Elements of Boat Strength" of which our public library has a copy. The hull design programs I've seen don't cover "scantlings", but do cover a lot of other things like shape, initial stability, capacity, resistance, etc. There are several kayak companies that are notorious for making flimsy hulls. For them, it's all about marketing and not about performannce, though in some cases, the problem is limited to specific models, typically short, wide, low-end boats. It's good that you picked up on this. -- Regards Brian |
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