I've been a whitewater kayaker for ~15 years and I'm usually out
every weekend. I've always used a feathered paddle without any
problem. My current feather paddle is 60 degrees. I could never get
use to a non-feathered paddle.

Since I'm getting older and there's little river water, I decided to
get a sea kayak with a Werner Camano 60 degree feathered paddle. Over
the past three weekends, I've gone out paddling for 90 to 180 minutes.
I usually go non-stop because I like to get into a cadence. After
the second weekend, I began to feel some soreness in my right
(control) wrist. After the third weekend, the pain became a bit more
noticeable. The pain is in the inside of the right wrist where the
pulse is felt. Before I do some damage, I need to know the
following:

(1) Is the location of the pain something that I should be concerned
about or will it work itself out?

(2) Am I paddling wrong? I use a high angle paddle stroke that is
common in whitewater kayaking, but I notice that a lot of sea
kayakers use a low angle paddle. The low angle paddle doesn't seem
very efficient, but is it the answer to my wrist pain?

(3) For those who recommend that I go to a non-feathered paddle, it
might be hard since it'll really screw up my whitewater paddling. I
thought about perhaps trying a 45 degree paddle, but I've only been
able to find sea kayak paddles that are either 0 degrees or 60
degrees. Anyone have experience with a crankshaft sea kayak paddle
who had similar wrist pain?

Responses to one or all of my questions would be appreciated.

On 30-Jul-2003, (Bobo) wrote:

(1) Is the location of the pain something that I should be concerned
about or will it work itself out?

In general, you should never ignore pain. A doctor once told me that
in joints, the apparent location of the pain may not be the actual
source, since the your body isn't as good at determining location
inside as it is on your skin. Could be a carpal tunnel type problem
or cartilage etc in the wrist. You'd have to explore this with an
expert - orthopod, sports physio etc.

(2) Am I paddling wrong? I use a high angle paddle stroke that is
common in whitewater kayaking, but I notice that a lot of sea
kayakers use a low angle paddle. The low angle paddle doesn't seem
very efficient, but is it the answer to my wrist pain?

There's not much of a real difference in paddling WW or SK. Low or high
angle is not an issue. Just do what you prefer. I use both, with the high
angle for speed and low for most paddling.

What you have to do is match the feather to the stroke angle and I find that
50-60 is about right for a high angle, with 25-30 for a low angle stroke (I have
a variable feather paddle so I can set any angle.) Yours sounds about right
for high angle.

I really doubt that you're gripping your paddle too tight after 15 years, so let's
ignore that. If your paddle is too long or if you're using a really big blade with
a slow, powerful stroke rate that could stress your joints. If that's the case,
try borrowing a shorter paddle or one with a smaller blade. The big blade may
be fine for WW, because you tend to work in bursts, rather than continuous
as in SK. Smaller blades combined slightly faster stroke rates are better for
old farts in SK - like using lower gears on a bike.

(3) For those who recommend that I go to a non-feathered paddle, it
might be hard since it'll really screw up my whitewater paddling. I
thought about perhaps trying a 45 degree paddle, but I've only been
able to find sea kayak paddles that are either 0 degrees or 60
degrees. Anyone have experience with a crankshaft sea kayak paddle
who had similar wrist pain?

Non-feathered paddles aren't magic - they don't necessarily reduce stress,
even though most people seem to think so. Most paddle makers can make
you a custom feather angle. There are several that supply variable joins that
can be set to any angle 0-360 degrees. Lendal, Epic, and so many others
I can't even keep track.

My variable feather is a crankshaft as well. While of limited value for most
folks, I find that the adjustment of the angle of the wrist reduces joint stress.
I wouldn't sink your money into one unless you try one first. It might be
of no benefit and there are side effects - like slightly wonky behavior in
things like Duffek strokes (if the crank has a trail the paddle tends to twist
on Duffeks and running draws. Werner has a neutral crankshaft that
doesn't do this.)

I also find that a Greenland-style paddle is low stress. It's unfeathered and
you tend to control it with thumb and fingers rather than wrist. The close
hand position means cranks are irrelevant. A little less efficient overall, but
low stress is a useful tradeoff.

I'd recommend getting to the bottom of the cause before looking for a solution
in a new paddle.

Mike

You're almost certainly cocking your wrist instead of using your
shoulder to position the paddle correctly for entry. If you intend to
paddle for long distances and at speed, you should spend the time to
learn proper paddling style. I've taken clinics with Brent Reitz and
Greg Barton, and have nothing but praise for their style. For Brent's
website, see www.wildsprint.com - Brent teaches classes occasionally
and also has a video/DVD that is invaluable. Greg has also released a
video, which I haven't seen but you can check it out at
www.epickayaks.com.

I paddle thrice a week, using a 75 degree feather angle and an Epic
Mid-Wing paddle. On my short days I go 8miles at 6mph with no break -
not even a missed stroke - in paddling for the 1hr 20min it takes me
to paddle. Long days, I do 15-20 miles. I couldn't even imagine
doing this when I first started paddling in Sep 2002 - but proper
instruction has made a huge difference.

Imagine a splint running along the inside of your forearm to your
palm, keeping the wrist straight. Well, that's how your wrist should
be while paddling - no cocking action forward or back as you paddle.
The paddle should move into position because of lifting movements at
your shoulder and rotation through the palm of one hand (usually,
left).
VB

Vineet.

(Bobo) wrote in message . com...
I've been a whitewater kayaker for ~15 years and I'm usually out
every weekend. I've always used a feathered paddle without any
problem. My current feather paddle is 60 degrees. I could never get
use to a non-feathered paddle.

Since I'm getting older and there's little river water, I decided to
get a sea kayak with a Werner Camano 60 degree feathered paddle. Over
the past three weekends, I've gone out paddling for 90 to 180 minutes.
I usually go non-stop because I like to get into a cadence. After
the second weekend, I began to feel some soreness in my right
(control) wrist. After the third weekend, the pain became a bit more
noticeable. The pain is in the inside of the right wrist where the
pulse is felt. Before I do some damage, I need to know the
following:

(1) Is the location of the pain something that I should be concerned
about or will it work itself out?

(2) Am I paddling wrong? I use a high angle paddle stroke that is
common in whitewater kayaking, but I notice that a lot of sea
kayakers use a low angle paddle. The low angle paddle doesn't seem
very efficient, but is it the answer to my wrist pain?

(3) For those who recommend that I go to a non-feathered paddle, it
might be hard since it'll really screw up my whitewater paddling. I
thought about perhaps trying a 45 degree paddle, but I've only been
able to find sea kayak paddles that are either 0 degrees or 60
degrees. Anyone have experience with a crankshaft sea kayak paddle
who had similar wrist pain?

Responses to one or all of my questions would be appreciated.

Bobo wrote:
A bunch of stuff about pain that I've snipped...

Bobo,
I would suggest that perhaps your pain is more a case of the difference
in endurance required for continuous paddling versus playing in eddies
etc. I can't say I have a lot of experience with either WW or SK, but
there is a marked difference in the amount of stress put on the body in
each due to the different styles of play.

As someone else suggested, don't ignore the pain and continue to
paddle, especially if you are as you say getting older. Injury takes a
lot longer to heal than to prevent. Maybe relax your paddling routine a
little bit, don't over do it. If you still feel pain, seek professional
opinions.

Good luck
bkr

Bobo, et.al.,

Stuff deleted:

Since I'm getting older and there's little river water, I decided to
get a sea kayak with a Werner Camano 60 degree feathered paddle. Over
the past three weekends, I've gone out paddling for 90 to 180 minutes.
I usually go non-stop because I like to get into a cadence. After
the second weekend, I began to feel some soreness in my right
(control) wrist. After the third weekend, the pain became a bit more
noticeable. The pain is in the inside of the right wrist where the
pulse is felt. Before I do some damage, I need to know the
following:

(1) Is the location of the pain something that I should be concerned
about or will it work itself out?


Yes, you should be concerned. This is often where carpal/tunnel pain shows
itself. You do not wish to aggravate it any further.

(2) Am I paddling wrong? I use a high angle paddle stroke that is
common in whitewater kayaking, but I notice that a lot of sea
kayakers use a low angle paddle. The low angle paddle doesn't seem
very efficient, but is it the answer to my wrist pain?


As others point out, I don't think the angle is the issue. WW paddling
allows for a lot of short bursts of activity followed by moments of rest.
Sea kayaking requires a pretty continuous stroke which repeatedly stresses
the joints over long periods. As Mary points out, you have more
opportunities to cause repetitive stress injuries. For this reason, what
seems like a "relaxed" grip to a WW boater, isn't for a sea kayaker. You can
open your hand on the "pushing" (for lack of a better word) side of the
stroke completely, controlling the paddle between thumb and palm, only. This
will give your a long period of relaxation for the joint. Also, ignore the
"control" concept of the feathered paddle. Alternate the gripping hand and
spread the stress over both. This may not allieviate the stresses
completely, but it does ensure that one wrist isn't receiving all the strain
on every stroke (you can induce carpal tunnel injuries just by cocking the
wrist and gripping lightly, hence the number of store checkout clerks with
the problem and it is always the "control" wrist for them, too).

(3) For those who recommend that I go to a non-feathered paddle, it
might be hard since it'll really screw up my whitewater paddling. I
thought about perhaps trying a 45 degree paddle, but I've only been
able to find sea kayak paddles that are either 0 degrees or 60
degrees. Anyone have experience with a crankshaft sea kayak paddle
who had similar wrist pain?


The feathered paddle is pretty useless for sea kayaking and I doubt its
utility in WW paddling as well. As one writer (Dowd?) states, the only time
the feathered paddle is beneficial is when the wind is directly from the
front (a rare occurance). The trailing paddle blade, in this case, must push
against the wind to move forward. In every other instance, the non-feathered
blade is better. Winds from the side or front or rear quarter tend to lift
the blade as it exits the water, potentially causing sufficient lift to flip
the kayaker. I gave up on the feathered paddle in just such conditions and
never went back. From the rear, the non-feathered paddle functions like a
small sail, improving one's progress. It took some practice to convert, but
now that I use an unfeathered blade, I found it virtually impossible to go
back to feathered this past week on a four day paddle down the Sac. river
when in a headwind.

In any case, I don't believe the additional risk of injury to the wrists is
suffient to warrant using a feathered paddle. If you can convert, fine. If
you can't, look for methods of lowering the amount of wrist cocking you must
do.

Responses to one or all of my questions would be appreciated.


Rick

Since I'm getting older and there's little river water, I decided to
get a sea kayak with a Werner Camano 60 degree feathered paddle. Over
the past three weekends, I've gone out paddling for 90 to 180 minutes.
I usually go non-stop because I like to get into a cadence. After
the second weekend, I began to feel some soreness in my right
(control) wrist. After the third weekend, the pain became a bit more
noticeable. The pain is in the inside of the right wrist where the
pulse is felt. Before I do some damage, I need to know the
following:

(1) Is the location of the pain something that I should be concerned
about or will it work itself out?


Yes, you should be concerned. This is often where carpal/tunnel pain shows
itself. You do not wish to aggravate it any further.

(2) Am I paddling wrong? I use a high angle paddle stroke that is
common in whitewater kayaking, but I notice that a lot of sea
kayakers use a low angle paddle. The low angle paddle doesn't seem
very efficient, but is it the answer to my wrist pain?


I strongly recommend you get Brent Seitz's video of his forward stroke
clinic (or better still take a clinic in the flesh). He also
encountered wrist problems of the sort you describe but then got
expert advice from another olympic paddler which saved him a lot of
grief. His views are also to be found in the August 2003 Sea Kayaker
magazine---along with the views of two other experts on the forward
stroke. I would note that:
1) the stroke in sea kayak touring is very different from the WW
stroke
2) you can learn a lot from the technique of racers although this
requires some modification for expedition touring (see the SK magazine
article reference above)
3) sounds to me as if the problem is that you are bending your wrist,
a sure recipe for trouble, instead of using your elbow to lift the
paddle out and a straight wrist to apply the power.
Again, Seitz is very convincing on the subject. I have had no
difficulty in following his instructions on long runs despite my
advancing years (59).
Bottom line, you do this for the fun, not for pain which could have
permanent consequences. Get it right from the beginning.
Good luck.